1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

  3. Voting is open in the KCC Haiku Contest!
    Entries can be found here.
    The poll closes on August 24th at 2:59pm UTC.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. img
    Dragon Ball Drawing Contest: Black & White Edition.
    Deadline is on August 30th at 11pm UTC
    Dismiss Notice
  5. img
    Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest 6!
    Deadline for entries: September 08th at 1600 EST.
    Dismiss Notice

I believe Toriyama's involvement with Super is VASTLY overplayed!

Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by JayDZ3, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. JayDZ3

    Messages:
    4,985
    Likes Received:
    941
    Trophy Points:
    1,383
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Reputation:
    I do believe that he wrote the script for the movie and that he does character designs + outlines but when Toyotaro and the anime staff tell us he checks EVERY storyboard from manga and anime and that he reviews all the scripts, that seems like complete bs or just not giving the context that he checks them like we check fine print on agreements. Like Half the DBS volumes have no interview/corrections, toriyama himself said he hadn't even seen the finished scripts for anime version of Goku black arc and would find out what happens with us, then you have the fact that he basically sanctions two seperate stories in the manga/anime with like 5 common points.

    I think shueisha, toei, toyotaro all just publically say he's super involved/micromanage because it gives the series credibility that it wouldn't otherwise and I think they learned from GT that his name matters A LOT, if GT had toriyama publically seen as the story creator, i think japan would have cared a lot more than they did.

    Thoughts?
     
    Tags:
  2. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Could be
    It wouldn’t surprise me tho if that was the case AT is the only reason why anyone would watch Super.
     
  3. Juub

    Messages:
    14,359
    Likes Received:
    2,185
    Trophy Points:
    2,708
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011






    He checks them the same way he checks all these bullshit guidebooks.

    "SSJ3 Goku as strong as Buuhan? Looks good to me"

    :torilol
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  4. OLK

    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    You can check storyboards and still not know how the finished product will be, or even get the scripts. They whore his name out but we all know Toriyama doesn't really give that big of a shit about details, only 2 things matter to him: His characters are still recognizable in how they act, and the gags land. That's why he corrects the strangest things sometime, like gags or Jiren's ass.
     
  5. BlackBoo

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Reputation:
    At least from the statements given, except for the movies, he seems more involved with the manga. Especially because it's a smaller team (compared to TOEI) and not having so much to supervise and approve. He seems to change more things too (he liked the idea of SSG Vegeta and Vegetto from Toyotaro and introduced it in the story). But it definitely has more involvement in both media than anything related to GT or Heroes.

    Anyway, it's sad that his script is so vague and simple, and his involvement most of the time is unknown, it creates many inconsistencies and lack of explanations, even greater than existed in the original DB. Of course, just naming Toriyama as an author is no guarantee of good quality (after all, it's not like all his ideas lately were good), but it's always nice to know that he's not ignoring the show. And for some reason fandom cares a lot about it
     
  6. KennethLT

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    883
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    the fact that the manga and anime are very different says alot about his involvement it. his involvement is only on what the story is and important key elements. everything else is fill in the blank.
     
  7. Prince Vegeta

    Messages:
    20,063
    Likes Received:
    2,748
    Trophy Points:
    2,582
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009






    Does he even remember ssj3?
     
  8. Juub

    Messages:
    14,359
    Likes Received:
    2,185
    Trophy Points:
    2,708
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011






    He does. It’s SSJ2 he doesn’t remember.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. Blade

    Messages:
    50,861
    Likes Received:
    13,457
    Trophy Points:
    5,708
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009












    :mjlol :mjlol
     
  10. Freechoice

    Messages:
    24,263
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Trophy Points:
    4,908
    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    Flag:
    Egypt, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Serbia, Russia, Portugal, Germany, France, Denmark, Croatia, Belgium, Uruguay, Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, Iran, Panama, Mexico, Costa Rica, Tunisia, Senegal, Nigeria, Morocco, Sokovia, Poland, Iceland, Barbados, Canada, China, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Trinidad and Tobago






    So hilarious !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Funniest member on the forum !!!
     
  11. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    The only thing modern Toriyama is 100% invented in is the gags. Which haven't even been that funny recently.
     
  12. Superstars

    Messages:
    14,088
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Trophy Points:
    1,469
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Reputation:
    We know the truth...

    TOEI: "Yeah great idea guys!! We'll ask Toriyama sensei can we make Jiren a talk able character with a personality!!."


    *Toriyama enters the room*...:



    Never forget. Toriyama shuts it down when he wants.:blessed
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  13. Nep Nep

    Messages:
    40,758
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Trophy Points:
    2,783
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Catdank Faction:






    Rewatching original Dragonball as well here and it just highlights how trash Super is.

    Toriyama used to know how to balance high stakes and comedy.

    Now everything is like he wants to put the fucking cast in high school with Vegeta as the tsundere love interest and Goku as the hapless but charming protagonist.

    Nobody with any semblance of taste can stomach Super.
     
  14. TylerHawke

    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Reputation:
    & this is why jiren is ass as a character & toppo would've been a better final opponent on the top
     
  15. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Nope
     
  16. Juub

    Messages:
    14,359
    Likes Received:
    2,185
    Trophy Points:
    2,708
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011






    Universe 11 had two Gods of Destruction on the field at once and managed to lose.

    :kobeha
     
  17. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    Only Toriyama could write something like that. The PIS was off the charts.
     
  18. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    More like Toei toppo never had GoD mode in the manga.
    While PIS was awful for jiren in both versions it was far worse in the anime.
     
  19. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    In a perfectly logical scenario Jiren alone would’ve won the ToP the second it started by breathing a little harder and the shockwave pushing everyone out of bounds.
     
  20. Juub

    Messages:
    14,359
    Likes Received:
    2,185
    Trophy Points:
    2,708
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011






    GoD Toppo wasn't in the manga to my knowledge. :hitbatman

    It's most likely a Toei thing.
     
  21. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    Manga Toppo had God Ki, was MSSB tier and went toe to toe with Vegeta.

    He, however, got flung out of bounds by the shockwave released by Vegeta unlocking SSBE.

    :kobeha
     
  22. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Srry Can't have the main antagonist act smart in the series especially if he's overpowered
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  23. KennethLT

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    883
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    what can you expect.

    zenkais were on cocaine
    goku and vegeta turned into infinite energy androids
    forms were given to them by the almighty
    jiren was ABSOLUTELY stupid do to P.I.S

    everything was set up so that they could never lose.
     
  24. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    The problem, however, is that some people mumble about how Jiren is such a “bad and boring” character, when in reality it’s the only way they could’ve kept him from not winning instantly.

    Horseshit writing, but being a Shonen series the good guys just have to win.

    Jiren was literally forbidden from participating in any actual fight for about 80% of the ToP so our guys could get their instant power ups and be able to fight him.
     
  25. KennethLT

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    883
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    more like, we cant have ANY fucking tension at all do the fact that

    WE
    ARE
    STILL!!!...
    ...

    operating behind the end of the manga, where we know everyone is gonna be fine.
     
  26. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Which all leads back to toei making jiren far more powerful than needed.
    Negga powered up like 4 or 5 times in the anime to show he starting to get serious or some shit
     
  27. KennethLT

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    883
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    the same people who argue jiren is a boring character would also argue that rebrianne was not obnoxious during the T.o.P.

    The problem with jiren is that "his" arc shouldnt have been a tournament arc, at all. why would you trow a mortal that is actually better than the hakaishins, into a ring of people who arent even ssb level in the first place. it is stupid. he should have gotten an arc to himself, instead of being shared by dozens of people
     
  28. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Especially people no one gave a fuck bout
    Like did we really need the screentime focused on fuckers like ribrianne when she turned out to be fodder?
    No
     
  29. Claudio Swiss

    Messages:
    36,722
    Likes Received:
    14,076
    Trophy Points:
    5,133
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015






    Even then we could still have things feel dire without it being half assed even inverse
     
  30. MShadows Moderator

    Messages:
    25,584
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Trophy Points:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013






    It was an okay method of introducing him through a meeting of all sorts of people from across the multiverse.

    But the setting of the tournament as well as the objective of it did not allow Jiren to operate at full capacity until the very end until he faced UI Goku.

    Jiren is too strong to be hanging with guys like current Goku and Vegeta. Like you said, they should bring him back when a threat of his caliber shows up. I wouldn’t mind Jiren saving the day (he is a super hero after all) against someone way out of G & V’s league (so they don’t have to spam fusion or wait for UI to reappear).

    It would help maintain Jiren as an actual entity of power in the multiverse and reaffirm that he’s still a goal to be reached by our protagonists.

    Of course, Jiren himself can also grow much stronger as he trains as well, but his gains will sadly be limited by the plot.
     
Loading...