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I think we have a lesson to be learned here....

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Sexta Espada, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Sexta Espada

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    Don't jump to conclusions immediately. And don't think Kishi is a strict follower of many rules. Last week, when 327 came out, everybody who said Asuma would live were parading the fact that they were right, at least according to the time. But with 328, they have been proven wrong. Kishi ended the chapter wierdly, making people think Asuma would live, and he might NEVER kill a remotely main character. But this week, he killed him.

    Chapters are never very predictable anymore. Sasuke touched the Kyuubi. A secondary main character has died. Kishi has gone down a very unpredictable path for the story. We can be sure of almost nothing now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2006
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  2. Shishi-O

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    this is, i mean to say all of these reasons, is exactly why i love the manga. i don't even try to predict anymore.:)
     
  3. Sexta Espada

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    It's not like you can't but you can't be sure with the cliffhangers anymore. Most thought Asuma would go back to Konoha this chapter, and alive. But he died, and they didn't even leave. The manga has a stage now, where it will all be pretty much unpredictable.
     
  4. dregoth

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    328...the chapter that ruined standard shonen rules?
     
  5. Sexta Espada

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    Ugh......I hate that, if you don't like it, don't use/read/look at/whatever it. It should have stopped a while ago.

    But it is rather fitting here.
     
  6. ShinAkuma

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    Killing Asuma wasn't unpredictable. It was foreshadowed and pretty much everybody thought he woould die. Those who thought he would live felt it was too obvious to kill him, but Kishi did anyway. I'm surprised at Asuma's death only because it was so predictable I didn't think Kishi would go through with it.
     
  7. Goodfellow

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    *drum solo* *applause and laughter*

    Damn you Naruto, stop the destruction!
     
  8. okenshino

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    yeah good point...
    unpredictable...i thought it was unpredictable when kakashi showed that rasengan...or yamato doing those crazy wood/water techniques...so i think its a good thing
     
  9. TenshiOni

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    Well, no. I would say his death was very predictable. I mean, it was foreshadowed ever since Asuma said the "I"m just a sacrifice to protect the King" line.

    (But even if it was predictable, Kishi handeled his death beautifully so I forgive him)

    It's just that, with the genre of this manga being Shounen, people tend to think manga-ka's don't have the balls.

    I mean, look at Bleach and One Piece - two amazing mangas a lot of Naruto fans also read. NO ONE - ABSOLUTELY NO ONE - dies in them outside of flashbacks and villains (and even villains don't die in One Piece).
     
  10. Sariachan

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    ^ I like Kishimoto because he doesn't fear to do what he thinks is needed for the story... and I'm not only about Asuma's or other deaths here, but also making a 15 years ols smoking (and I'm anti-smoke, in real life at least). Those last two panels were really, really meaningful and among the best in the manga, imho.
     
  11. Spanish Hoffkage

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    More 15 year old japs should start smoking :yell
     
  12. Pyroneko 28

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    Umm.. Asuma's death was foreshadowed. And he's a minor character, albeit one we're familiar with.
     
  13. Sexta Espada

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    I meant it in a different way T_T

    I meant people jump to conclusions to often, and jump at the first sign that they have a possibility to be right in their theories. It's now very much unpredictable chapter-to-chapter, not in the whole arc in general. The Akatsuki can still die, we have no way of knowing how or by who. See? The chapters have gotten a bit mistier, as there are no foreshadowings often as to what will happen next chapter. The general outcome/more important of an arc is much easier to predict, as there are foreshadows in the beginning as to what may happen. But now, unless we have direct confirmation in the middle of a chapter, it's much harder to tell who was right, or which theory was true. That's what I meant.
     
  14. geG

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    Well, even if it was foreshadowed like that, not many people thought he would die as a direct result of this battle. Like everyone's been saying, it breaks away from too many shounen rules. I myself though Asuma would die eventually, but I was one of the people saying he was going to live and make it back to Konoha because I really didn't think he was going to die from this.
     
  15. ShinAkuma

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    If by "unpredictable" you mean every smalll detail won't be known before an issue comes out, then every mangais "unpredictable".

    As it stands the "meat" of the arc is very predictable.
     
  16. Akatsuki Leader Uzimaki

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    i like it because naruto was getting boring until he died
     
  17. Iruka

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    ^ :rotfl

    I partially agree with you. :nod


    @Topic
    It's true that chapters isn't exactly very predictable now.
     
  18. Elfberserker

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    But they don?t have balls...Not at laest your avarage shounen manga-ka..

    And now to topic...

    Yes it was foreshadowed that Asuma would died, however I didn?t think that he would die too soon.

    I mean he didn?t really sacrified himself for king ( Or at laest whom I think the king is.) and I was excpecting him going with bang, but instead he had quite normal grunt death...

    Which is good thing too, I was getting tired with these flashy deaths..
     
  19. kakoishii

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    What would be the point foreshadowing like crazy that Asuma was going to die, before the battle if he lived through it? Seriously it would have made no sense for Kishi to throw hint after hint after hint after hint that Asuma was nearing his end if he wasn't going to kill him off. To be honest at the end of 327 when Shikamaru asked Ino to help Asuma with medican ninjutsu to keep him alive till they got back the villiage, I was seriously thinking, if Asuma's going to live then what was with all that ominous foreshadowing. Keeping that in mind it was very predictable that Asuma would die, and considering this is a manga about ninjas (with it's many main characters and minor characters) it was only a matter of time before someone died. But if you're still a believer in the rules of shounen manga, rest assured I'm sure Kishi won't kill off any of favorite previous genins.
    Well if Asuma died thinking he did sacrafice himself for the king, which I think he believes he did since he was able to die so peacefully and without regret, then who you think the king is, is probably not the king.
     
  20. Twicks

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    This chapter actually reconfimed why I read Naruto - it's a cut above the typical Shonen style. No flashy death for Asuma, and no last minute save.

    I think after this, people will have to stop saying 'because it's Shonen' as justification for their predictions.

    For what it's worth, I thought Asuma would survive to have a last word with Kurenai. It makes it even more sad that he didn't get that chance.
     
  21. MS81

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    I feel the same here ShinAkuma,Kishi could've had Asuma go with a bang or just not die at all.:cry
     
  22. Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki

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    There is no "shounen rule" that says you can't kill any characters. The fact that Asuma died just shows that Kishimoto has the guts to kill some non-evil characters now and then, but no way does it mean Kishimoto is breaking the "rules".

    The fact that Kakashi knows rasengan and that Sasuke could "touch" (it wasn't a physical manifestation, duh) Kyuubi only mean that Kishimoto is getting less predictable when it comes to minor details. The shounen guidelines never concern minor plot details. They concern the flow of the plot flow, story writing concepts and HOW to kill characters.

    The above examples do not mean that suddenly Kishimoto will flip out and do something insane (like killing a villain without a serious fight).

    An example is Deidara's fake death. During the whole fight I doubted Deidara would be killed. Then suddenly he IS killed and not with a bang but with a "poof". In addition, his fight was severely handicapped (ran out of clay quickly, no powerful techniques performed, lacked one arm). This was completel unpredictable as nothing actually made this seem like a serious fight at all. Two chapters later we learn that Deidara is actually alive and that seals the deal. Kishimoto is definitely following the conventions.

    People would now say that if Deidara had been actually killed there without performing any major moves then it would be no different from Asuma getting killed by Hidan without any major moves. I disagree with this.

    The main difference between Asuma and Deidara is that Deidara is a villain, and the purpose of a villain is to be defeated in combat (core rule of shounen, no villain changes without being defeated). This is not true for side characters. Their purpose is often just to fill out the character roster and killing them off can be done without any of the honours that belong to villains, such as them getting to pull off some dramatical ?ber technique.

    This is obviously because they're not killed to make their opponents look stronger in battle. Villains, however, are killed for that very reason so they need to show off their stuff before dying.
     
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