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If Gentle Fist or Blocking Tenketsu was created/brought by Kaguya (Or the O clan) then...

Discussion in 'New Leaf' started by Reviewing Logic, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    Who created the opening and using of the GATES?


    I don't mean Gai's Eight Gate moves like Morning Peacock, Evening Elephant and Night Guy (like how the Hyuga have tenketsu moves later made like rotation or 64 palm, etc...) but rather who or where did the knowledge of opening gates come from.


    Gai's Father?

    Someone else?


    Such a massive taijutsu/power boost only appearing near the Second War era seems odd to me.


    Why would such a crazy thing being so obscure towards history where no one knew about it, let alone we still don't know the origins of it.


    Do you think this will ever be addressed?

    Do you also think that the O clan knows what it is? Not use it but know of it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  2. Ultra Instinct Senjutsu Mo-Kage, Mo-Problems

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    I could see this being one of those techniques that one day, somebody would have sat down and thought about using chakra enhanced strength, but combining it to achieve greater speed, thus, it wouldn't be too crazy to think of and develop, but the fact that a mere human body is moving so fast, and striking things with such force, the body isn't able to compensate for something it wasn't designed specifically to do.

    For example, the dude that fought Lee who had the Heavenly Breaths is basically the Gates, but he developed it himself.

    For another example, Tsunade uses the most basic form of chakra enhanced strength, but her difference is she pours in massive amounts of chakra, giving her technique a longer shelf life than any of the Gates, on top of actually healing the body, rather than breaking it apart, which is likely MUCH easier to maintain, as the user isn't in constant pain from forcing their body to accelerate so fast, and putting strain on the bones and joints, which is why Tsunade remained her normal speed, but got a solid strength and healing boost.

    All in all, I'd say the Gates were likely discovered by whoever figured out the human body had 8 Gates to begin with, and/or someone else came along and thought to control each, one at a time, in order to achieve differing levels of strength/speed enhancement.
    But with something that literally harms the user during use, doesn't seem like something any typical shinobi would go out of their way to learn, especially one that could cripple you in the 3-4th stage.

    I always had stupid high hopes the Gates would be the Gai's Clans special technique, OR, a technique that ALL villages and shinobi had knowledge of, but only a few shinobi who are born with weak ninjutsu ability learned.
     
  3. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    Tenketsu and the chakra network are general knowledge. They wouldn't have come solely from Kaguya just like all other anatomical knowledge didn't come from Kaguya.

    There must be other methods to observe the chakra system than just Byakugan is Tsunade was able to verify what kind of damage FRS caused to Kakuzu's body and Naruto's hand.
     
  4. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    that is just probably feeling then anything

    in order to heal someone you pass your chakra into their body.... she likely couldn't pass it to particular spots in Naruto's body because the network itself was damaged

    of course there are sensors and other type of people but tenketsu sight is so far reserved for the byakugan

    plus before Kaguya came to the Earth the human race were nobodies without any knowledge of use of chakra period (even though they might or might not have had it)
     
  5. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    You think the O clan might have invented it?

    Isn't it possible that some normal humans invented some powerful stuff on their own?

    It seems like a jutsu perfect for guys who are not talented but extremely hardworking so that they can match the greatest geniuses.

    Alas all O clan guys are quite gifted. Blessed with such powerful chakra that they hardly bother to train...as Momo was the perfect example. It does not seem to fit them.

    Furthermore thanks to their inherent Byakugan it seems more logical for them to master the Gentle Fist rather than focus on the Strong Fist style.

    That Madara knew about it suggests that it was either Guy's ancestor or some other taijutsu master who invented it.

    Since the series now focuses on divine chakra and technology it is likely that taijutsu techniques will have less...importance. Though taijutsu as a whole will likely still be used. Kinshiki and Sasuke had shown that it can be deadly even in god tier fights.
     
  6. TheIcon266 Member

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    Kishimoto created it....Duhh
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  7. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    I don't mean the O clan invented it or even if they can use it

    I mean would they know of it


    since I doubt how many thousands or even millions of years before the Kaguya descent on Earth and them with their rinnegan sight that can see gates and literally being byakugan users with an even better sight wouldn't know what those gates and opening them would achieve

    in the Boruto novel 3 we even learnt that other aliens also exist as Momo was in a planet of a ruined civilization

    so idk not only them but anyone else in the universe having knowledge of it



    maybe on Earth it was never thought of until Gai's father or something
     
  8. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    Hmmm...

    Urashiki was surprised by Mitsuki's SM so they might not know THAT much. Especially given how Urashiki is the chief spy and informant for the clan.

    They likely know about some major events that happened in Shinobi history but details behind even very powerful jutsus that were invented by ninjas are likely still hidden from them.
     
  9. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    I feel Sage mode is unknown since them being Rikudo users they had no need for it

    while sage mode gather outside energy to mix it with the other two to form chakra

    while Gates at least is literally use of the network and opening and closing forcefully major gates/points

    so it would be more known I would assume

    but even for the Naruto world it seemed that no one beyond the LEAF knew about the GATES so idk maybe like you stated the O clan just wouldn't know
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  10. Karyu Endan Smilies = Not serious

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    Do we know whether or not the Otsutsuki clan or pre-Hagaromo humans even had chakra gates?

    I'm asking because the Gates are, at present, natural organs of the human body meant to reduce chakra flow down to tolerable levels. Humanity would have no need for such an organ before they obtained chakra from Hagaromo. I always thought that the Gates and even the chakra pathway system were products of biological evolution, that after being exposed to chakra humans developed additional organs in order to accommodate it. And the Otsutsuki's species seems advanced enough on its own that they don't need gates in order to regulate chakra flow.
     
  11. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    first I heard they were organs

    I assumed that is was just specific chakra points in the network responsible for limiting the flow of a persons chakra current in the network






    heck the most basic chakra system that Madara saw with his rinnegan as the sharringan can't see such points had the main 8 gates/points when Gai opening them to the 8th against Madara

    never heard of it being organs and the wiki and online info I skimmed also don't classify it as organs


    what I got from the manga was it is just specific chakra/pressure points in an ever massive chakra network/points
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  12. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Gates are Chakra-points that cannot be accessed by pressing the Tenketsu so the Otsutsuki can't access it. Neji said he can release all of the existing Tenketsu in his body which means the Gates Tenketsu are seperate from the normal ones. Gai trained Neji and TenTen along with Lee yet they never managed to activate it and Kakashi claimed latter is a genius for awakening the fifth gate meaning some sort of clan lineage inheritance (i.e. the talent.) is required to activate them. The only other individual who activated them is Kakashi and he never managed past the 1st gate.
     
  13. Sixth Ranger Quantum Power!!

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    I was hoping Tobirama was he one who invented it since he invented a lot of other techniques. Also it was stated that unlocking all 8 gates granted power beyond the Kage or something like that. I was thinking that maybe Tobirama invented it to compete with his brother who became the Hokage.
     
  14. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    well he can release it from all points but so far how Gai explained it

    it seems Gates is more of a stamina heavy thing compared to how chakra itself is a mix of both stamina/body and spirit





    I am just guessing Neji lacked the stamina to burst it open to the necessary degree to do gates


    anyway I am not saying the O clan can do it

    I am saying they can see it and likely idk if they can see it then for thousands of years why wouldn't they have thought or have known via maybe other aliens etc... that it could be possible


    there are a ton of factors and maybe them like other people in the Naruto world never thought of it until Gai's family for something

    especially since it is so suicidal
     
  15. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    The only suicidal gate is 8th gate. Stamina was never stated to be a factor nor was it implied or else Gai wouldn't have taught all of his students including Kakashi the same technique and latter possess poor stamina to say the least. Yes they can see it but that doesn't prove anything nor does that imply they possessed the potential to do so given you've the fact that only specific high clan descendant individual can appriopriately wield the Curse Mark of Orochimaru, likewise conditions exist; like a person's lineage and other minor factors although former being the most important. Kakashi specifically used the word genius he wouldn't say that if stamina was the factor or if all kinds of individuals can train to perform it cuz thats an impossibility as proven by various other implications throughout the Manga and correlations.
     
  16. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    never said they could do it or not

    I said they can see it

    be it separate from the network (which was never stated before) or be it not they can see it so idk why they wouldn't know what it does is what I am stating

    or like sage mode would they be shocked if someone did it

    but yes stamina is a part of gates, hence why they produce evaporated sweat

    and why it is a big thing for Lee who has poor capabilities to do ninjutsu and other chakra stuff beyond walking on water, etc..
     
  17. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Evaporated sweat was never stated to be thier bodily sweat actually. It's simply stated blue sweat accumulates from the body of a eight gates user no further details about that phenomenon was ever revealed.

    Lee's comparison doesn't make sense. Kakashi a guy known for poor stamina accomplished the opening of one hence stamina doesn't play a huge role.
     
  18. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    poor stamina?

    he was getting drained for using a foreign dojutsu in his body

    Kakakshi the copy cat ninja has good chakra for a non clan shinobi

    dude that is able to spam ninjutsus,etc...

    it is just that the sharringan is just that demanding, especially Kamui

    as for the sweat lol sweat is
    unless some ghost haunting Gai/Guy is giving off the sweat then that IS Gai's sweat we are talking about
     
  19. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    In the DB Entry he has a low score for stamina.

    This is the line Gai quoted "Those who open gates evaporate blue sweat" no mention of it being his own sweat rather it being a special effect happening when opening one of those gates. That's how it was portrayed.
     
  20. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    sweat comes from a user

    be it any colour of the rainbow

    who's sweat do you think it is if it isn't Gai's

    as for Kakashi his stamina is 3 but that was better then part 1 Neji's (who was stated for failing at opening such gates) who was a 2

    Lee sucks at chakra based stuff but he is capable of doing gates because when molding said chakra he has stamina and training to push himself above and beyond the needed requirements

    stamina: 3 as well like Kakashi

    but stamina isn't the only factor

    it is the whole body


    so strength, speed etc... that is not the spirit stuff is included as part of that "stamina"

    not the stamina that separates itself and is stated in the DB because that is likely only partially it
    especially since the said DB has no section for the other part that makes up chakra the spiritual energy
     
  21. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    It hasn't been revealed. Just like Totsuka Blade Origins hasn't been revealed. Doesn't change the fact that Gai creditted it not to himself but to the opening of the gates. That's all the information there is regarding the issue currently. A special phenomenon occurring when opening gates.

    Neji wasn't stated to not master the gates due to stamina problems but due to lacking the necessary talent for it. If it was it would blatantly be implied. But it isn't. And thats the underlying point.

    Kakashi calling him a genius should've proven that much. 3 is still low + that's irrelevant to the topic at hand since the conditions for gates awakening has already been stated and implied in the series. Anything other than that is speculation. Speculation that cannot be proved.
     
  22. Reviewing Logic ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

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    similarly assuming it is a separate network is also making assumption though

    or assuming that the sweat is another phenomenon entirely separate from Gai and his body


    just that the stamina bit actually has info on it of being part of what makes up chakra while the separate network was never stated to even exist or hinted


    regardless one thing we can agree on is that it needs indepth explanation which Kishi has clearly left out
     
  23. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    It isn't an assumption simply due to the fact I'm going with what's stated. Not making theories.

    It's blatantly implied to be the case since we haven't seen such a phenomenon anywhere else regarding human sweat in NV.

    The seperate network is implied actually. The fact that neji isn't opening them despite being master of all Tenketsu not to mention the rest of the Hyuga Clan who're experts in tenketsu revelation.

    Yup. He does that to increase the shock element of his plot.
     
  24. Godaime Tsunade Well-Known Member

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    Taijutsu is older than most Ninjutsu, so it could well be an art older than the Warring States Period or even the era of Indra and Asura.
     
  25. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    Fun fact Otsutsukis are part of rebel races against Frieza's planet trade organisation and Cold Empire.
     
  26. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    Basic taijutsu went out the window when people realized they could augment their physical strength and speed with chakra.

    Basically everything we've seen Naruto characters doing wasn't possible before chakra.

    So, it makes sense that they came up with new taijutsu styles and moves bases on their new abilities.
     
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  27. wooly Eullerex BTW, Izanagi is a ninjutsu; chidori is a nin-taijutsu

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    King Kai invented all the gates stuff way back when
     
  28. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    All of the other taijutsu students are geniuses in the last Naruto movie.
     
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