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In what ways is PA Naruto stronger than Jiraiya? Feats only.

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
You've read why I said so, different conditions

"Why you said so" =/ "Why Pain said so".

Pain's words and the manga's words > your personal opinion, mine, or Maru's.

Pain's praise is for Naruto as an individual, nowhere does he mention "different conditions" being the reason or at least the main reason. This really isn't that complicated.

I'll answer the rest later hopefully...but this...really is beyond debate.
 

Sparks

Repopulating History
I mean, Naruto is literally telling you what I said, he can only use the sage chakra "inside him" due to Kurama wiping out those clones and thus requiring him to enter manually.

Do you really not see the point of that statement? Naruto is saying he has one shot of SM left and only one, BECAUSE Kurama got rid of the clone that could give him two.

And if Naruto didn't have the summoning scroll, how would he even get the sage chakra from those clones (regardless of their condition)? He can't, simple as that. Therefore the only alternative is manual.
The chakra/memory transfer aspect of the Shadow Clone jutsu upon dispelling should work independent of distance like we see before Madara vs. Gokage. The scroll was required as Naruto needed the proximity to undo the jutsu himself and release the chakra.

If the chakra was intact at the time it was dispelled, even involuntarily, the chakra/memories of that clone should have returned to him.

But given Naruto's clone's reaction to KN2 [], whether the clone had enough focus to keep that chakra intact before dispelling is iffy, so I see your point.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
The chakra/memory transfer aspect of the Shadow Clone jutsu upon dispelling should work independent of distance like we see before Madara vs. Gokage. The scroll was required as Naruto needed the proximity to undo the jutsu himself and release the chakra.

If the chakra was intact at the time it was dispelled, even involuntarily, the chakra/memories of that clone should have returned to him.

But given Naruto's clone's reaction to KN2 [], whether the clone had enough focus to keep that chakra intact before dispelling is iffy, so I see your point.


Either way he no longer had the scroll.

No scroll, no summoning.

No summoning, no (non-manual) Senjutsu.
 

Aegon Targaryen

The Shield That Guards The Realm of Men
Yes, but you're making a misleding point here, if you say "no one has pushed" of course it's not "Naruto's situation", a situation isn't no one

You're the one that brought up the whole ''different situation'' argument, bruv. And forgive me, you're the one that's misled.

Now if Pain said ''this is the hardest fight I've ever fought'', THEN you'd have a point about the scenarios being different. THAT would be a comparison between scenarios, not shinobi. But Pain DIDN'T do that. Pain is NOT making a judgment of the situations he's been in.

Pain is NOT talking about situations, he's talking about people. Individuals. He's saying Naruto, out of all the people he fought, pushed him furthest. That's a measure of Naruto as an individual COMPARED TO other individuals, other people, other shinobi. Period.

I think you read what I said but you're exagerating my view and points, the problem here is that you don't think Jiraiya is match to Pain when Pain himself said he was

This never happened. Pain never said Jiraiya is a match for him, merely that J-Man can defeat him with knowledge of the real Nagato (and technically he didn't even use the word ''defeat'', he merely says he would not beat Jiraiya - that could easily be a tie).

If it's a reach to kill one, then what percentage you give to the "might kill two"?

Okay, I should've clarified my numbers. It's not a reach to kill one, I think he should be able to do it again (100% chance more or less). Two, though? That's definitely a bit of a reach (and honestly I'm being generous to Jiraiya here), but still possible (let's say 40-60%).

Three? Extremely unlikely (think 1-9%).

Four? Definitely not happening.

Or you meant to say that it wasn't a reach for him to kill one? He already proved to you he can kill one when againist six while injured, I don't think you're being fair in saying that with him being in a better situation with better intel, it would go even worse and it might also go better (with the might go better being a reach)

Better situation with better intel is not very accurate, trocollo.

Jiraiya essentially had prep time just like Naruto did against Pain, given that Pain only used a couple of summons (and only ever used one offensively for the most part) against Jiraiya. Pain didn't deploy the Cerberus's full power like he did against Naruto (where it literally separates into multiple boss-sized dogs) and recalled it even though Jiraiya didn't do anything to it instead of continuing to use it.



Even Jiraiya himself thinks Pain isn't taking him seriously. Given that Jiraiya takes LONGER to enter SM than Naruto, this is a big deal.



And as mentioned before, it's highly unlikely the Yahiko Path played a major role against Jiraiya. Naruto had to actually fight it and managed to kill a path in spite of Yahiko very much being there and regaining strength - feats support as much.

Against Naruto, Pain knew about Frog Song this time (even targeting Ma and Pa to end it early), fought in an open battlefield with no clear hiding spots for Naruto to use (compare to J-Man in Amegakure), actually used his strongest path visibly, and used his strongest summon to the greatest degree. None of this was true for Jiraiya. Not saying Naruto's circumstances < Jiraiya's, but they weren't much better.

Dude come on, why are you specifing now "to you", I quoted your last post and you just replyed "I did", neither did you share it in the last post with me, just post it and lets get over with it, why you gotta do this



What matters what he breaks, the end is it's pointy would ven be less durable

Good thing Naruto can destroy the entire rod, not just the pointy end lol. He literally destroyed another rod by merely grasping it.

the point is he doen't plum his hant into the rod, he attacks it from the side

Attacking the sharpened end of the rod from the side still means attacking the sharpened end.

Therefore, Naruto tanked it.

Then the compariosn with Kakashi isn't an example



Or you now want to argue that Jiraiya lets his guard down immediately after hitting a clone? Cause that's not what's it's showed

It's YOUR argument, not mine. You're the one arguing Jiraiya is foolish enough to completely and utterly let his guard down to the point anyone and their dog can ambush and attack him successfully in spite of being in the Akatsuki leader's village lol.

Erm how? The clone wasn't erased from existence it dispersed so the chakra and NE got to Naruto

Naruto needs to physically summon the clone to his location to re-enter SM. He didn't even have the scroll on him any more.

I remember shared vision, but the other abilityes? If you got scans sure if they did I forgot

I'm not telling that, Asura is

Asura didn't say what you did though? :hm

He merely said Jiraiya underestimated him, not that Jiraiya is some chump that falls for ambushes like you're portray him.

complain with Kishimoto not with me :oldshrug

It's your argument, not Kishimoto's :hm

Anyway, you're taking it too far, it's not specifically ambushes, is letting down your guard and getting ambushed

And I already gave you multiple examples of people successfully reacting to and countering ambushes, including outside of battle. Sasuke and Kid Bee countered or evaded ambushes...the idea you think a SPYMASTER and veteran ninja can't is honestly bonkers.
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
Minato was not responsible for making naruto birth a secret
That was the village’s plan as a whole
So Minato statement of he saw through my every move is baseless based on what we saw on panel
Dude Minato was the hokage, what's this "village's plan as whole"? Did the citizen approved it? Only Minato, Kushina and the necessary people knew of the information about it, Minato is the one who approved all of it if not the one who directly chose the location, and you didn't adress Obito fooling Minato into FTG away from Kushina resulting in him extracting the fox

And also didn't explain what you mean by "see above" in the second point

"Why you said so" =/ "Why Pain said so".

Pain's words and the manga's words > your personal opinion, mine, or Maru's.

Pain's praise is for Naruto as an individual, nowhere does he mention "different conditions" being the reason or at least the main reason. This really isn't that complicated.

I'll answer the rest later hopefully...but this...really is beyond debate.
I'd get your point of Pain said something along the lines of: "Naruto, you're the strongest I've ever fought" or "Naruto you're the only one who can push Pain this far", but these would be untrue cause he admitted Jiraiya would be able to defeat him, in fact what he said was that this has been the farthest he's ever been pushed, who doesn't bear the same meaning as this doesn't go in contrast with Jiraiya being capable of winning with intel as Pain also said

Take your time, like really, I prefer when the discussion doesn't get unnecessary long and to do this is essential that things get explained well and important points to the addressed clearly, I see you quoted some points but wihout a response below, wich makes me think it was because of a lack of time, they weren't important but next time go slowly at it, we can keep the replies to one per day or per week if you want, I do similair errors so it's not like I want to say this only for you btw, but it had to be noted

You're the one that brought up the whole ''different situation'' argument, bruv. And forgive me, you're the one that's misled.

Now if Pain said ''this is the hardest fight I've ever fought'', THEN you'd have a point about the scenarios being different. THAT would be a comparison between scenarios, not shinobi. But Pain DIDN'T do that. Pain is NOT making a judgment of the situations he's been in.

Pain is NOT talking about situations, he's talking about people. Individuals. He's saying Naruto, out of all the people he fought, pushed him furthest. That's a measure of Naruto as an individual COMPARED TO other individuals, other people, other shinobi. Period.
No that way is still not a clear cut, we know that when Naruto pushed him the furstest was with intel, Pain didn't say Naruto was the strongest ninja he fought, it's what I've also said above

This never happened. Pain never said Jiraiya is a match for him, merely that J-Man can defeat him with knowledge of the real Nagato (and technically he didn't even use the word ''defeat'', he merely says he would not beat Jiraiya - that could easily be a tie).
But in what world when you tie with someone you're not a match for him?
Anyway, tie is highly improblable given that Pain works with 6 bodies who have to be killed, a tie would be Jiraiya killing himself with the last body

Okay, I should've clarified my numbers. It's not a reach to kill one, I think he should be able to do it again (100% chance more or less). Two, though? That's definitely a bit of a reach (and honestly I'm being generous to Jiraiya here), but still possible (let's say 40-60%).

Three? Extremely unlikely (think 1-9%).

Four? Definitely not happening.
So you basically think nothing changes for Jiraiya, he might do better if he hits the 60%, or he might do the same as his injured one armed version if it's 40%

Better situation with better intel is not very accurate, trocollo.

Jiraiya essentially had prep time just like Naruto did against Pain, given that Pain only used a couple of summons (and only ever used one offensively for the most part) against Jiraiya. Pain didn't deploy the Cerberus's full power like he did against Naruto (where it literally separates into multiple boss-sized dogs) and recalled it even though Jiraiya didn't do anything to it instead of continuing to use it.



Even Jiraiya himself thinks Pain isn't taking him seriously. Given that Jiraiya takes LONGER to enter SM than Naruto, this is a big deal.



And as mentioned before, it's highly unlikely the Yahiko Path played a major role against Jiraiya. Naruto had to actually fight it and managed to kill a path in spite of Yahiko very much being there and regaining strength - feats support as much.

Against Naruto, Pain knew about Frog Song this time (even targeting Ma and Pa to end it early), fought in an open battlefield with no clear hiding spots for Naruto to use (compare to J-Man in Amegakure), actually used his strongest path visibly, and used his strongest summon to the greatest degree. None of this was true for Jiraiya. Not saying Naruto's circumstances < Jiraiya's, but they weren't much better.
You said he stalled with summons with both Naruto and Jiraiya, but Jiraiya was in a worse situation cause he had to charge his SM up, cause he didn't have already it prepped like Naruto, so he was in bigger predicament with those summons, who where dealing damage to his toad, while in SM either Naruto or Jiraiya can easily deal with them

Nope best you can hope to say is that Yahiko for some reasons didn't use his powers aganist Jiraiya, but even saying that Jiraiya didn't fight him while Naruto had some cqc with him even tho it couldn't use his powers? Yahiko like all the other paths jump on Jiraya to kill him with rods, and when Jiraiya captured a path he was trying to capture all of them, so Yahiko included, so he wasn't on the sidelines cheering up the other paths

You just said he knew of toad chant, how this defends your claim of saying that better intel isn't accurate? Naruto had intel on the paths and to Nagato, how knowing of toad chant makes the better intel not accurate?

So a different tactic will be used, perfect battlefield to use a big field yomi numa, erect various doton walls, putting the summons to work, using smoke bombs, clones and huge fire style, even barriers like in Amegakure, they all stall and are part of the battle going on

Pain wasted his greatest summon to the higest degree, he just trowed them foward a SM user who yeeted them in the air and had his summons sit of top of theirs, resulting in Naruto having his summons in good conditions when Pain had his own despawned with the killing of animal path, not that he did any better with then with Jiraiya, but at least he took his own summon out with that, and Jiraiya is one who works more with his summons compared to Naruto

-.- all this and you meant the same panel as your other point

Good thing Naruto can destroy the entire rod, not just the pointy end lol. He literally destroyed another rod by merely grasping it.
Sure

Attacking the sharpened end of the rod from the side still means attacking the sharpened end.

Therefore, Naruto tanked it.
What? There are no points on the side, you're talking like the rod is actually a katana and Pain was doing a slashing motion with it and Naruto just broke it aganist that motion, it isn't what happens, Pain goes for a trust and there is no tanking, if he could tank it then he would've have done so and used his hands to punch deva in the face dude

Attacking the sharpened end of the rod from the side still means attacking the sharpened end.

Therefore, Naruto tanked it.
It's not even a sharpened side, as you can see from the image you posted it's just a cut to make the end of the rod a point, neverteless the cut is at the right side but Naruto's left hand breaks the rod more foward than his right arm, neither the cut itself is a as long as na hand, and actually we even see that the part Naruto breaks is the middle of the rod, since you can see a piece of rod in Pain's hand and the other one Near Naruto's shoulder, and all the shattered pieces in the middle
So lets stop overanalizing things to say he hit a specific sharpened part just to say he could've tanked it

It's YOUR argument, not mine. You're the one arguing Jiraiya is foolish enough to completely and utterly let his guard down to the point anyone and their dog can ambush and attack him successfully in spite of being in the Akatsuki leader's village lol.
No the problem is that you think that if Jiraiya does the above he also lets his guard down immedialy after hitting a clone, which makes no sense, if not tell me why responding like this to me saying:
Or you now want to argue that Jiraiya lets his guard down immediately after hitting a clone? Cause that's not what's it's showed

Naruto needs to physically summon the clone to his location to re-enter SM. He didn't even have the scroll on him any more.
No Naruto needs to physically summon the clone cause he doesn't have telepaty so his clones don't know when they have to desummon themselves, chakra can easily travels huge distances, having the clone near isn't it, Naruto was sending clones everywhere on the battlefiled and still knew Kurama gave him chakra when the one aganist Madara dispersed, Minato could detect Naruto from Konoha, so could Tobirama detect Madara, from where comes this limitation in chakra distance now?

And again, did you see that the clones weren't in SM? It's not fair that you first say I'll look into them when you just have to look at a scan I posted and then you don't even reply

Asura didn't say what you did though? :hm

He merely said Jiraiya underestimated him, not that Jiraiya is some chump that falls for ambushes like you're portray him.


It's your argument, not Kishimoto's :hm


And I already gave you multiple examples of people successfully reacting to and countering ambushes, including outside of battle. Sasuke and Kid Bee countered or evaded ambushes...the idea you think a SPYMASTER and veteran ninja can't is honestly bonkers.
And I already explained to you that it's not simply an ambush, the point is having your guard down or not, if you let yourself open then yout let yourself open, if Jiraiya didn't let his guard down he'd have reacted to the ambush
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Dude Minato was the hokage, what's this "village's plan as whole"? Did the citizen approved it? Only Minato, Kushina and the necessary people knew of the information about it, Minato is the one who approved all of it if not the one who directly chose the location, and you didn't adress Obito fooling Minato into FTG away from Kushina resulting in him extracting the fox

And also didn't explain what you mean by "see above" in the second point


I'd get your point of Pain said something along the lines of: "Naruto, you're the strongest I've ever fought" or "Naruto you're the only one who can push Pain this far", but these would be untrue cause he admitted Jiraiya would be able to defeat him, in fact what he said was that this has been the farthest he's ever been pushed, who doesn't bear the same meaning as this doesn't go in contrast with Jiraiya being capable of winning with intel as Pain also said

Take your time, like really, I prefer when the discussion doesn't get unnecessary long and to do this is essential that things get explained well and important points to the addressed clearly, I see you quoted some points but wihout a response below, wich makes me think it was because of a lack of time, they weren't important but next time go slowly at it, we can keep the replies to one per day or per week if you want, I do similair errors so it's not like I want to say this only for you btw, but it had to be noted


No that way is still not a clear cut, we know that when Naruto pushed him the furstest was with intel, Pain didn't say Naruto was the strongest ninja he fought, it's what I've also said above


But in what world when you tie with someone you're not a match for him?
Anyway, tie is highly improblable given that Pain works with 6 bodies who have to be killed, a tie would be Jiraiya killing himself with the last body


So you basically think nothing changes for Jiraiya, he might do better if he hits the 60%, or he might do the same as his injured one armed version if it's 40%


You said he stalled with summons with both Naruto and Jiraiya, but Jiraiya was in a worse situation cause he had to charge his SM up, cause he didn't have already it prepped like Naruto, so he was in bigger predicament with those summons, who where dealing damage to his toad, while in SM either Naruto or Jiraiya can easily deal with them

Nope best you can hope to say is that Yahiko for some reasons didn't use his powers aganist Jiraiya, but even saying that Jiraiya didn't fight him while Naruto had some cqc with him even tho it couldn't use his powers? Yahiko like all the other paths jump on Jiraya to kill him with rods, and when Jiraiya captured a path he was trying to capture all of them, so Yahiko included, so he wasn't on the sidelines cheering up the other paths

You just said he knew of toad chant, how this defends your claim of saying that better intel isn't accurate? Naruto had intel on the paths and to Nagato, how knowing of toad chant makes the better intel not accurate?

So a different tactic will be used, perfect battlefield to use a big field yomi numa, erect various doton walls, putting the summons to work, using smoke bombs, clones and huge fire style, even barriers like in Amegakure, they all stall and are part of the battle going on

Pain wasted his greatest summon to the higest degree, he just trowed them foward a SM user who yeeted them in the air and had his summons sit of top of theirs, resulting in Naruto having his summons in good conditions when Pain had his own despawned with the killing of animal path, not that he did any better with then with Jiraiya, but at least he took his own summon out with that, and Jiraiya is one who works more with his summons compared to Naruto


-.- all this and you meant the same panel as your other point


Sure


What? There are no points on the side, you're talking like the rod is actually a katana and Pain was doing a slashing motion with it and Naruto just broke it aganist that motion, it isn't what happens, Pain goes for a trust and there is no tanking, if he could tank it then he would've have done so and used his hands to punch deva in the face dude


It's not even a sharpened side, as you can see from the image you posted it's just a cut to make the end of the rod a point, neverteless the cut is at the right side but Naruto's left hand breaks the rod more foward than his right arm, neither the cut itself is a as long as na hand, and actually we even see that the part Naruto breaks is the middle of the rod, since you can see a piece of rod in Pain's hand and the other one Near Naruto's shoulder, and all the shattered pieces in the middle
So lets stop overanalizing things to say he hit a specific sharpened part just to say he could've tanked it


No the problem is that you think that if Jiraiya does the above he also lets his guard down immedialy after hitting a clone, which makes no sense, if not tell me why responding like this to me saying:



No Naruto needs to physically summon the clone cause he doesn't have telepaty so his clones don't know when they have to desummon themselves, chakra can easily travels huge distances, having the clone near isn't it, Naruto was sending clones everywhere on the battlefiled and still knew Kurama gave him chakra when the one aganist Madara dispersed, Minato could detect Naruto from Konoha, so could Tobirama detect Madara, from where comes this limitation in chakra distance now?

And again, did you see that the clones weren't in SM? It's not fair that you first say I'll look into them when you just have to look at a scan I posted and then you don't even reply





And I already explained to you that it's not simply an ambush, the point is having your guard down or not, if you let yourself open then yout let yourself open, if Jiraiya didn't let his guard down he'd have reacted to the ambush
You straw grasping mostly
As saw through my every move would include the fight to which obito saw nothing
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
You straw grasping mostly
As saw through my every move would include the fight to which obito saw nothing
Nope it's that you're too fixated with battles that everyting has to revolve around them, like it wasn't a common thing in manga for the bad guy to do a clever move that puts the good guys in a predicamant that ends up either costing the lives of a teammate or forces the protagonist to power up, or both
 

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask

My left nut ain't hurting
SM Naruto is stronger IMO , especially in physicals .

Jiraiya going against 6 Paths with 1 arm missing sounds impressive , but I doubt all 6 of them used their full power .

Because there was no Intel on the Deva Path , and we've saw how powerful that Path is , it negged Naruto the moment his power returned .

Now imagine another 5 Paths next to it .

SM Naruto is also faster and has better firepower .
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Nope it's that you're too fixated with battles that everyting has to revolve around them, like it wasn't a common thing in manga for the bad guy to do a clever move that puts the good guys in a predicamant that ends up either costing the lives of a teammate or forces the protagonist to power up, or both
Saw everything
How could that exclude the fight in which objto flees
Riddle me that
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
Saw everything
How could that exclude the fight in which objto flees
Riddle me that
I can't if you make of it an absolute like that, but if that was the case why you feel betrayed by the statement after seeing the fight and not already when it was said? Since by that point we already know Kurama ended up being sealed into Naruto and the leaf wasn't destroyed?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
I can't if you make of it an absolute like that, but if that was the case why you feel betrayed by the statement after seeing the fight and not already when it was said? Since by that point we already know Kurama ended up being sealed into Naruto and the leaf wasn't destroyed?
Statement doesn’t match the fight
That’s all there is to it
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
he is better than Jiraiya in SM.

However, overall, I believe he was still a bit weaker overall than Jiriaya.

whatever the case may be, it's for sure not how the tards try to make it out to be. That SM Naruto is a tier or so about Jiraiya. :lmao
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Why it has to be all there is to it?
Why not ?
You can’t say a person saw through everything you did
But excluding x y and z
It’s either the person did or didn’t
You are trying to exclude the fight for no reason at all
VS the much easier explanation which is kishi changed his mind
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
Why not ?
You can’t say a person saw through everything you did
But excluding x y and z
It’s either the person did or didn’t
You are trying to exclude the fight for no reason at all
VS the much easier explanation which is kishi changed his mind
You can, it's simply not intended as fighting capabilityes but seeing trough the plans, it's a simple matter of reading into the context, we got Madara saying that his susanoo can destroy anything in the universe, but beside people who take it litterally that doesn't mean it actually meant everything, the problem shouldn't exist in the first place, cause makes no sense that his attack on the leaf was stopped and the fox sealed in Naruto, so I shouldn't even go trough le lenghts to explain why it's not a retcon since it's clear from the start that you're not meant to take that statement in that way, I get that the mentality in this forum is all about fights so people think of only one thing when reading a phrase, but this one in particular can't be swindled like that, you can try with something else as surely there are, but this isn't it
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
You can, it's simply not intended as fighting capabilityes but seeing trough the plans, it's a simple matter of reading into the context, we got Madara saying that his susanoo can destroy anything in the universe, but beside people who take it litterally that doesn't mean it actually meant everything, the problem shouldn't exist in the first place, cause makes no sense that his attack on the leaf was stopped and the fox sealed in Naruto, so I shouldn't even go trough le lenghts to explain why it's not a retcon since it's clear from the start that you're not meant to take that statement in that way, I get that the mentality in this forum is all about fights so people think of only one thing when reading a phrase, but this one in particular can't be swindled like that, you can try with something else as surely there are, but this isn't it
Are plans everything
Yes or no
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Is a neutron star part of everything?
Yes or no

If yes you think Madara's PS can destroy one?
There is a neutron star in kishi manga ?
Mind showing me the scan or DB entry
Else might as well claim naruto eats McDonald’s
Cuz you know we got those on earth
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
There is a neutron star in kishi manga ?
Mind showing me the scan or DB entry
Else might as well claim naruto eats McDonald’s
Cuz you know we got those on earth
... then let it be the earth, the sun, the universe itself, if you wanna go by things nominated, can it destroy those?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
... then let it be the earth, the sun, the universe itself, if you wanna go by things nominated, can it destroy those?
You sound desparate
Saw through every move is not a hyperbole
An attack can destroy everything is
Seeing the attack never faced every single thing

however to say an enemy’s saw through your move is either false or tre
 

trocollo

Well-Known Member
You sound desparate
Saw through every move is not a hyperbole
An attack can destroy everything is
Seeing the attack never faced every single thing

however to say an enemy’s saw through your move is either false or tre
For how this debate is going I'd call it depression rather than desperation, if by desperate you mean that I'm making no sense with my points then address it rather than backtracking, I'm kinda tired of it at this point tbh, but here goes nothing:
As I said before, you're imposing these rules who are just your own decisions, those statements are hyperbole if taken litterally, they aren't if taken into context, is that simple, I gave you the context for seeing trough Minato's moves, but you have this belief that the statement must also have somethign to do with the battle after Obito's plan to get Kurama, which is not the case, what you wanted Minato to say "He say trough half of my moves, and by half I mean he saw trough them at the start but when we fought I folded him, so he didn't saw trough that just be clear", wtf would be that? The point here is that Obito fooled the prevention plans to keep Kurama in place causing the disaster of the Kyubi attack, but the leaf wasn't destroyed and Kurama is in Naruto, did Obito saw trough that? Was that part of his masterplan that could predict the whole future?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
For how this debate is going I'd call it depression rather than desperation, if by desperate you mean that I'm making no sense with my points then address it rather than backtracking, I'm kinda tired of it at this point tbh, but here goes nothing:
As I said before, you're imposing these rules who are just your own decisions, those statements are hyperbole if taken litterally, they aren't if taken into context, is that simple, I gave you the context for seeing trough Minato's moves, but you have this belief that the statement must also have somethign to do with the battle after Obito's plan to get Kurama, which is not the case, what you wanted Minato to say "He say trough half of my moves, and by half I mean he saw trough them at the start but when we fought I folded him, so he didn't saw trough that just be clear", wtf would be that? The point here is that Obito fooled the prevention plans to keep Kurama in place causing the disaster of the Kyubi attack, but the leaf wasn't destroyed and Kurama is in Naruto, did Obito saw trough that? Was that part of his masterplan that could predict the whole future?
:wink
 
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