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Is Genjutsu stupid???

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by Shinobi1jutsu, May 14, 2018.

  1. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    .

    I mean from a fans perspective...

    I mean, its not really fun to watch, and seems pretty OP in general. Instead of actually fighting, and seeing a cool fight scene... they... look at you?!

    Also... just think about how ridiculously cheesy it is. Any run of the mill Uchiha, with a base sharingan, can basically, just casually walk up to just about any ninja (except for maybe a small few) look at them... have them tripping balls, and whip out a sword, kunai, shuriken, etc... and just kill them EASY!!! By the time they break free... IF they break free at all... they'd be toast!

    I mean, just about ANYBODY who has genjutsu, could essentially beat anybody who doesn't have it... unless they're working with a cooperative biju. and are jinchuruki. Its pretty lame!!!

    I mean... I still cannot understand the Madara vs. Hashirama thing!!!

    So... when they're little kids... Hashirama beats Madara, okay... fair enough...

    However, once Madara got the Sharingan it should have been GAME OVER, since all he had to do was LOOK at Hashirama, genjutsu him, and chop dude in half with his guitar shaped sword/thing!!!

    Yet, Madara NEVER EVEN TRIED THAT!!!

    He gets his sharingan... fights Hashirama... looses again, then he gets the MS, fights Hashirama again, and LOOSES AGAIN, then... dude shows up with Kurama, encases 9-Tails in a Susanoo, fights Hashi, and LOOSES AGAIN!!! WHY??? All Madara ever had to go was genjutsu him, and kill him while he's tripping! ... EASY!!! However, he NEVER does, almost as if even he knew it was too gay! He wanted to beat Hashirama, but wasn't willing to stoop down so low, and win with a cheap trick!

    Think of how easily any genjutsu user could beat any non-genjutsu user, (unless of course they are jinchuruki working co-op with a biju)!

    So... is genjutsu stupid??? Or do you think it was a good thing for the series???
     
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  2. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    I think it is more than a fair question to ask if a whole major category of jutsu was a good or a bad idea for the series, as it was extremely powerful, and not particularly entertaining.
     
  3. Kurama the Fox Well-Known Member

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    Genjutsu never really interested me a ton, but it does have its uses.

    We mostly only hear of Uchiha Genjutsus. Tons of characters are listed as having Yin Release in the databooks, meaning they could perform Genjutsu.

    Genjutsu is rarely enough to win a battle alone, unless it’s a remarkably powerful one, otherwise, they’re mostly just used to stall.
     
  4. Kiba's Slut Boy World's #1 Kiba Inuzuka Fanboy

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    Genjutsu.

    another cool concept that was executed poorly OR Not expanded upon properly because Kishi was obsessed with Uchihas.
    Kurenai was supposedly a Genjutsu master yet we're never shown the scope of the variety of of the genjutsu. Team 8 should have been taught to use genjutsu that linked to the theme of their characters also.
     
  5. ThomasTheCat Wannabe Battledomer, Less Active Than Preferred

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    Ninjas are supposed to be cheap. Genjutsu makes perfect sense with the series.
     
  6. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    Meh, there are people who know how to quickly get out of it or overpower it.

    Kurenai is near Itachi's level and she doesn't even have a Sharingan. So, that should mean a normal ninja less skilled than Kurenai is still a match for an Uchiha less skilled than Itachi.
     
  7. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    Thank you for your answer! However, as someone that has participated in contact sports... I have to disagree with you about the idea that generally...genjutsu is only useful as a stalling tactic. Think about it, if we were sword fighting, and all you had to do was make eye contact (which is kind of impossible NOT to make eye contact in a fight), and then BOOM I'm tripping balls in a psychedelic kaleidoscope world, the moment that happens... you could chop me in half! Even if I know how to break free of genjutsu... in the seconds if takes to do that... you could kill me 10 times over!
     
  8. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    Thank you for your answer! I agree with you on all counts!!!

    But... about you're picture... OMG!!! What is Kiba about to do to Naruto?!?!?! For Naruto's sake... I hope that's a substitution jutsu!!! Seems like something Haku would be more interested in doing!
     
  9. Silnaem Nothing for Wisdom

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    Firstly: I like how you continuously question the series as you go along

    OP:
    No

    1. Its a natural extension of ninjutsu that someone would've thought of if it didn't happen on panel (fanfic)
    The only difference is that instead of using chakra to make a dragon, you send it to your opponent to control their perception.
    While this may seem like a leap, healing techniques bridge the gap of affecting the environment, affecting your opponent physically and affecting them mentally

    2. Its not OP
    It can be countered with speed (hence Madara needing to grab Ei), as the chakra has to travel to the opponent
    It is a chakra battle, just like with physical techniques. So simply shaking up your chakra undoes normal genjutsu. Having large quantities of chakra also inhibits it, as the caster would have to bring it all under control. Hence only Sharingan has been shown controlling bijuu, and only elite Sharingan at that
    Lastly, it has prerequisites that normal ninjutsu and taijutsu do not. These are the preparation (remember Kurenai vs Itachi, where Asuma complained), sensory route (LoS for visual, sound energy for audial, contact for haptic etc)

    No technique is OP, in a fair match (tier list)
     
  10. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    Thank you for your answer!!!

    Even if there are people that are able to break out of it... in the seconds it takes to do that, you can be killed 10 times over! Imagine if you had genjutsu, and we were sword fighting, and all you had to do was make eye-contact with me... then BOOM I'm tripping balls in a psychedelic kaleidoscope world... even if I know how to break free... you could chop me in half 16 times before that happens!

    Also, I really don't think Kurenai is or ever was anywhere near Itachi's level. In part 1, when Itachi came to the leaf village looking for Naruto, Kurenai attempted to place Itachi in a genjutsu, and Itachi basically laughed at her, and actually said, "genjutsu's of this level could never work on him." I don't even think Kurenai's genjutsu was even on Sasuke's level, as Sasuke was able to use some genjutsu on Itachi when they fought.
     
  11. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    Thank you for your answer!!! I really appreciate the information breakdown!!! Not many people who answer on this forum are good at that, and that... more than anything else is what I'm looking for, so thank you! I'm honestly in love with the series... despite any qualms I may have with some stuff... overall its so good... I can't help, but think about it, which leads to me questioning stuff.

    While I understand everything you said, and find it really helpful, I still can't help but feel like genjutsu and amateratsu are totally unfair, and extremely OP techniques. I used to compete in contact sports. I know that in a fight, a split second of distraction, or delay in reaction time is more that enough to get knocked-out! So imagine if you and I were sword fighting... somehow... you had the power of genjutsu. I could be a million times better and more experienced than you, but if ALL you have to do is make eye-contact with me, and BOOM... I'm tripping balls in a hallucinogenic, psychedelic kaleidoscope world... even if I know how to break out of a genjutsu... by the time I do that, you could chop me in half 10 times over! Or, imagine if Itachi is fighting Hashirama, while Sasuke is punching, kicking, and swapping hands with the First Hokage... all he has to do is "think" an Amaterastu on him mid-combat, and that's it... fight is OVER! Alternatively, Itachi could... again... mid-combat, hit Hashi with the Tsukuyomi, and boom... yet again, Hashi is toast! Yet, Hashirama is supposed to be a tier above Itachi.
     
  12. Silnaem Nothing for Wisdom

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    True enough, a lot of MS abilities are OP

    But they can be countered.
    All of them need a chakra buildup (except Passive Kamui), this tells most sensors something's coming
    All of them are chakra constructs, thus chakra feeders/destroyers can counter
    Lastly, they trash on the caster (stamina dives), thus there is almost always an opening after the technique is cast, if it fails to GG initially

    As for the sword fights etc, definitely . . .
    . . . if you're fodder
    Fodder does not have sensing, speed, chakra specialties etc. That's why Uchiha were great for war, they had abilities that fodder couldn't counter

    However, what makes the 'kage level' kage level, is that they have various abilities that make them effectively abnormal.
    Kimimaro phases through his bones, so no Amaterasu GG
    Gai can fight w/o looking his opponent directly, so no Tsukiyomi GG
    Most are very fast, so no Kamui GG
    And that's just the low kage tier (on my tier list), never mind the mid kage who have more than one way around MS abilities

    While they can definitely do away with a lot of named characters, there are always those whose special techniques even provide a bad matchup
     
  13. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    Uchiha feels like they have a monopoly on the genjustsu game.
     
  14. Kiba's Slut Boy World's #1 Kiba Inuzuka Fanboy

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    you mean, what is Kiba already doing to Naruto, I wonder :hurr
     
  15. Shinobi1jutsu Active Member

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    Oh NO!!! LOL!!! LMFAO!!! Why is Kiba gay though?! I mean... I could've figured Kiba was into doggystyle, and I guess he figured a 9-Tail Fox was close enough... but, if Naruto was going to go gay, I would imagine he'd go with Sasuke! Honestly, though... that picture makes me laugh every-time I see it!!! Its just so f***ed up!!!
     
  16. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Hashirama was an expert at genjutsu. He had huge reserves of chakra and stamina. The bringer of darkness specifically attacks your eyesight to block your vision he invented it to battle the Uchiha. Madara couldnt use Sharingan illusion on him because he was controlling the Kyuubi. It creates a lot of strain.

    MS jutsu are prettymuch OP. Especially Tsukiyomi. You get carried away into a Genjutsu realm where time, matter and mass and even substance is under the control of your hands.

    Furthermore because it can be cast without eye contact it becomes the deadliest Ninjutsu in existence.

    Amaterasu are spiritual flames which crave physical energy like Tayuya's spirit worms. Shinra tensei worked on Intangible flames because they were becoming tangible by absorbing Nagato's lifeforce/life energy cells. If anyone other than Hashirama battles the Amaterasu head on they are dead. One in the face and you cannot remove it even if you can if you arent Uzumaki you'll be consumed of your body energy. Interestingly two victims of Amaterasu was Uzumaki.

    Kagutsuchi is a great technique and underrated. It wasnt hyped like Amaterasu but its workings are crazy. Kagutsuchi is the solidifying of amaterasu without using other people's physical energy. Eyes are Spirits. Except the Byakugan. Spirits in Narutoverse are indicated by thier thirst for life energy. They need to stabilize into the physical realm from the spiritual realm. One sharingan's ability'll be purely spiritual whereas the other eye's ability'll be pure physical. Amaterasu the spirit flame, Kagutsuchi the materializer. Amaterasu the spirit fire, Tsukuyomi the physical genjutsu(Note Tsukiyomi is labelled Ninjutsu in Databook even though its a genjutsu; it's physical) The physical eye gives stability to spirit eye in the material world. Kakashi's eye kamui is a physical counterpart to Obito's phase kamui spiritual part. Phase kamui activates automatically according to Databook whereas Kakashi has to fixate his glance on a spot in his LOS. This is why he didnt use his kamui to warp Kaguya but fused obito's ocular power with his Kamui shuriken and fused it with Raikiri a spirit attack.

    Then we've the most brilliant powerup which became rather dull as it progressed that is the Susanoo.

    It is made of spirit substance. It is the souls of ancestors and is a guardian deity to the castor. It eats your lifeforce energy to physicalize it's existence in this physical realm. It's the greatest powerup because ST Ninjutsu wont work against it. The only ST which would work is the Flying thunder god because a god can face a god and beat it. But considering Susanoo cancelled a Juinjutsu from Danzo by letting Sasuke's body react to it and his emotions regenerate Susanoo from its inner dregs I doubt even the ftg will work when Susanoo can break its Juin with the emotion strength of the user and the physical energy collecting onto it to stabilize it into this realm. This is why the Susanoo is a perfect defense. It grants perfection in all terms.

    EMS Susanoo can only be cracked by spirit techniques. Onoki technique and Tsunade's spirit seal are examples.

    Stabilized Susano'o which Perfect Susanoo cannot even be cracked without God techniques like Hashirama. Its chakra will be stabilized into this earth. Its chakra is ethereal so when it stabilizes into this world it becomes a spirit weapon. Spirit weapons are denoted by thier no limit nature, PS Sword cutting everything, Totsuka cutting everything, Yata reflecting everything, Samehada shredding everything, Helmsplitter smashing everything, Raikiri cutting everything. The artifacts of the buddha is a spirit weapon as a whole. Which is why it cracked the majestic spirit armor of Susanoo. Spirits like Susanoo a ocular power summoned being eats lifeforce if you dont have EMS. Its the transplantation of another's eyes to kill the weakness of physical energies of your one eye and spirit power through emotions of your other eye being drained. The eyes of your transplant victim will be immortal because that victim's heart emotions and physical energies will be used up by the current eye holder.

    Mangekyou give's the most powerful ability only matched by Hashirama's gods.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  17. Gin Ichimaru's Shadow Sanban daihyou taicho Ichimaru Gin

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    Maybe it looks stupid, but it is very interesting. It doesn't look cool from the perspective of person who casts it, but Genjutsu gives a chance to outtier some people and makes Series better.
     
  18. Mister LoLz Banned

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    It is a very interesting idea how you can manipulate your opponents minds. Very nice concept, too bad it went down the hill when it was approaching god levels, nothing besides Sharingan and Rinnegan upwards was useful anymore.
     
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