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Is Isshin... dead?

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by JaneDoe, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. JaneDoe Unidentified Kunoichi

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    This question has wandered through my mind ever since we found out that Ichigo's dad is a Shinagimi.

    Hell, he even was a captain! (just look at the uniform)

    I'm just wondering how in god's name could he have made it to captain, know all those people(like Urahara and Ryuuken) en NOT be dead.

    I believe Urahara has provided him with a gigai.

    But if all this is true: how could Ichigo and his sister not have noticed their father dying? (oké Ichigo is dense, but still...)

    Or perhaps it's possible to conceive children while wearing a gigai?

    It's all too strange to me :ruri
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
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  2. Drk WOOH

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    Isshin was a shinigami before Ichigo was born.
     
  3. JaneDoe Unidentified Kunoichi

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    Yes, but how did he become one? Did he die?? And if so: does that mean it's possible to conceive children between the dead and the living (unless Ichigo's mother was a Shinigami too). That is a bit too macaber for my liking :s
     
  4. SiSL The Hun

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    Dead men can't make children and we know Shinigami can live for milleniums, may be forever.

    There is lots of speculations about Isshin. Such as being past in Shiba clan, may be King's protectors etc. etc.

    But NONE of them can be true. Because noone knows of it yet, even slightest bit. For all we know Isshin and Ryuuken know each other clearly well. Isshin has a captain level. Nobody knows the surname "Kurosaki" in Soul Society so might be fake ID as well. Nothing hinted about past of Isshin beside him being "captain level".

    So none of answers you will be getting wont be other than predictions, guesses, dreams...
     
  5. Zaraki Kakashi New Member

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    well I think that isshin just did the same thing as ichigo. he probaly got his powers from a shinigami and went through the ranks to become captain.
     
  6. TurboCod Member

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    Isshin hasn't been in shinigami form in at least 20 years if memory serves and Ichigo is only 16. Therefore he was a shinigami well before Ichigo was born.
     
  7. darion Member

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    Ekhem , why do you guys thinks Urahara made a gigai that can transform shinigami into a human ? :)
     
  8. JaneDoe Unidentified Kunoichi

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    I believe it serves as 'shell' for the Shinigami-soul
     
  9. darion Member

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    It was already explained somewhere but that gigai coses for shinigami to lose his powers and becomes human, normal shinigami after loseing their powers would never be shinigami again unless they went to SS , I belive that Ishin is a true blooded shinigami. Even after they lose shinigami powers they can go and awaken them as many times as they want.. The real problem is Ichigo who has both hollow and shinigami powers if he would lose to his hollow side then he would become arranacar...


    My head is starting to hurt :)
     
  10. spaZ d[o_0]b

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    Didnt Urahara make a gigai that was so close to a human and thats why he got kicked out of ss? So maybe thats why he could have childeren with in that gigai? You either die in the real world and go to ss or you are born in ss so he might have died a long time ago in the real world and end up in ss or else he could have just been born there.
     
  11. SiSL The Hun

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    I think OP is also confused all Shinigami are DEAD from human world, goes to Soul Society and then become Shinigami which is just wrong.

    Shinigami can born in Soul Society. There is obvious example of Byakuya is born of true blood in Noble House of Seretei.
     
  12. darion Member

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    I bet we will have to wait until the end of the season to get all of this properly explained becouse as long as Ichigo has his hollow side I don`t see nor Urahara nor Ishin nor anybody else explaining everything to him..

    But I don`t get why the hell they put Ryouken and Ishin at the begining of this season if the wont play an important part in it.. so does the Vaizards ..

    Either this HM arc will soon be over or everybody will come to HM to fight ..
    I liked more the idea of fighting in the real world..
     
  13. Ereya No sugarcoat.

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    I believe Isshin was never alive to begin with.

    As for the gigai, it was made way before Isshin had any use of it. For the fact that he hasn't been in a shinigami form for 20 years, we can either say that he hasn't been out of the gigai for 20 years or he was turned into a human and then regained his powers thanks to his son (both theories have plotholes anyway).
     
  14. FrostXian Messiah With An Attitude

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    So the point is;
    Isshin did die at some point, but it was possibly 100, 200, 600, or a fucking millenia before Ichigo was born.
     
  15. Ereya No sugarcoat.

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    Not necessarily; Isshin may be (and probably was) born within the Sereitei, which means he had never been alive at first.
     
  16. JaneDoe Unidentified Kunoichi

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    So that means what exactly?

    He is dead and is revived so that he could produce a human child with the potential to be the "ultimate shinigami?" :oh

    He is dead and 'created' Ichigo somehow. (Perhaps with the help of Urahara who knows) :huh

    Or there is a way for Shinigami and Human's to conceive children :huh

    If that's the case I throw away all my objections to why a RukiaIchigo relation would never work.
     
  17. SiSL The Hun

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    It means Seretei is not "Heaven" like in your belief it is not a place only dead reside. It is a different world.

    There is a life circle with in it. There are families, noble families, royal families which can conceive children of their own as I give example of Kuchiki family (only Rukia is adoption), Shioin family, Shiba family etc.

    Beside you don't have an idea if Gigai can not work normal as human body. They appearantly do, they do eat, they bleed, they get injured, go to toilet, get sick.. so why not productive functions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  18. JaneDoe Unidentified Kunoichi

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    Okay, correct me if I'm wrong:

    When you die your soul goes to soul society, some are even born in soul society.

    Those with high reightsu level have the power to go to Sereitei and can, if he's strong enough become captain.

    These with power help balance the universe by making sure that souls will be sent to Soul Society and so on.

    Although their soul is alive and kicking; and even materialised in another dimension, they can't be seen by human's but by gigai

    So techniqually their dead.

    But I could be wrong

    It's that or they are aliens :s
     
  19. SiSL The Hun

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    ^^

    Answered above
     
  20. Tori Victorious Penguin

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    I think Isshin is of the Shiba clan, so he would have been born in the Soul Society and never actually died.
     
  21. Brutalis9 Member

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    Ya, i don't get why he's living in the real work and all...
     
  22. SiSL The Hun

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    Nothing comes to mind beside love of Masaki and self-sacrifice.
     
  23. Kri aegrescit medendo

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    That was the gigai that he gave to Rukia. It was intended for draining the reiatsu of the wearer.

    It's not a side effect of a regular gigai.

    I'm not sure what the case is with Isshin, though. He was obviously in something, as in, not a spirit floating around, otherwise he wouldn't be able to keep a job. It's hard for invisible men to find work. He probably used something opposite of what Urahara used when Sado and Orihime were going into Soul Society.

    That thing (I can't remember what it was called) turned their physical bodies into spirits without sacrificing the characteristics of their bodies. Urahara, Isshin, and Yoruichi may be in their shinigami bodies, materialized in the reverse process. That way, people can see them, but they can still wield their zanpakutou and not be slowed down by a physical gigai.
     
  24. Akechi Durdedur

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    Considering they said Ichigo is a pure blood shinigami, that would mean BOTH his parents were shinigamis, as I'm pretty sure a german shephard purebred mating with a golden retriever won't produce any kind of purebred anything.

    And we don't know if he was a captain, infact he most likely wasn't, his uniform is different, everytime a shinigami transforms his uniform is perfectly back to normal so the fact that it's not a whole captain outfit means it's not just torn or battle worn or whatever. He had a different role in soul society.

    Basically ^^ summed it up, Urahara is wielding a zanpakutou and he's certainly not in any kind of gigai, one that we've heard of at least. Also, take into account Shinji and the other arrancar are not using gigais at all, they are real people wielding zanpakutous and transforming into vaizards.

    It's probably because of some casting out by soul society.. when people got kicked out their spirit bodies were just transformed into human bodies whether or not they actually lived there at one point or died, as if SS 'kicked' someone out they probably would be a little more than pissed and wouldn't give them such sweet gigais and also wouldn't simply kill them, the only other option is human. Which would put credit toward those who retain their power, and why Isshin couldn't protect his wife, because he was just a human then and didn't have his power yet.
     
  25. No it means just that. Ichigo is human with a shinigami side. And It must have happened before as how else would Isshin know that he could impregnate a human.


    All this will be explained im sure as I get the feeling that Ryuuken is tied to Masaki as well.
     
  26. SiSL The Hun

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    Wrong. Arrancar who used that sentence (Grand Fisher) has no idea about his mother. In Eastern beliefs, children takes after blood of father, mother has no importance in lineage. On the other hand, he is the one who ate Ichigo's mother, so might be tasty. But even that's the case, I don't think he would back off not to tell Ichigo that his mother was a shinigami in the very first place.


    We only know he is captain "LEVEL" we are not even sure if he ever had a role in "Soul Society", may be in another dimension or in another world.

    Wrong. Urahara even used Gigais in combat to trick enemy. Also Shinji is visible to all people in school, so he IS using one. (Just not everytime) and Shinji is not arrancar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
  27. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i am pretty sure isshin was a captain, he has the white robe all tucked up on his shoulder and sleeve though so we cant see what division yet, my guess is he and urahara knew about aizen and they confronted him, aizen forced them to leave or die or something like that
     
  28. Naya on a Forums Break

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    I am puzzled by the same quetion... theories in this thread all have their weak point - how is that Ichigo doesn't feel it? That's the thing I can't understand.
    How is that Ichigo can't feel th rejatsu of a captain level?..
     
  29. Ereya No sugarcoat.

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    Either because of the gigai and/or because he's hiding it. Unlike Ichigo, Isshin does know how to conceal himself.
     
  30. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human

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    Are Shinigami really alive for that matter? I'd say that whether Isshin is dead or not is really a moot point.

    1) Gigai in all their occurrences have been shown to be pretty much human bodies, except in certain cases involving mod souls such as Kon, Pyon, and the Filler Trio. But even in those cases the power comes from the mod soul...not the Gigai.

    2) Gigai also seem to be the biological equivalent of a Shinigami's true form, sans the ability to survive being half blown away like Mayuri.

    3) Sperm + Egg = Baby (More or less). If the Gigai has chromosomes, which I suspect they do, then they can be probably used to conceive.

    4) Bleach is mostly a reincarnation scheme. A Death God conceiving in a human body is probably no different than a human conceiving in a human body. I mean hey, they're both essentially souls wrapped in a tasty crust. One just doesn't have a Zanpakutou.

    5) Even if Isshin is technically dead, Karin, Yuzu, and Ichigo would probably never notice. He walks, he talks, he fights Ichigo at random intervals--his Reiatsu is probably so familiar to them they wouldn't notice. This is a bit like Yachiru and Zaraki. Even though his massive reiatsu can paralyze some people, she doesn't notice.

    6) Urahara can do whatever he likes with false bodies. For all we know he invented the damn things.
     
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