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Is Itachi the strongest of the Akatsuki? help me move this someone

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki Archives' started by avioletscream, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. avioletscream

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    ok you remember when oro was in there right? and he said he left because he feared itachis power right?
    why doesnt he fear the akatsukis leaders power? unless itachi is more powerful
    being the leader doesnt mean you have to be the strongest

    of course there are lots of flaws in this

    iono if this belongs in theory

    geez i put this in battledome by accident can someone move this to house of uzumaki?
     
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  2. TenshiOni

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    He fears Itachi because of his Sharingan and it's ability to copy ninjutsu (remember, Oro is a ninjutsu freak).

    If you've read the manga, then you know that Itachi is not the strongest in Akatsuki.
     
  3. Takagou

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    hmm...good point. I think that Itachi is not nesasarily(sp) the strongest, but orochimaru did somthing to invoke his wrath, so he ran away like a scacred pansy >_>;;
     
  4. Rangamaru

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    I doubt he's the strongest, But I guess we'll know soon enough.
     
  5. Last of the Uchihas

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    You should know better than that.

    Oro is not afraid of the shairngan since he is not afraid of Kakashi and Sasuke who both have mastered sharingans.

    Also, Oro is a jutsu freak, not a ninjutsu freak.

    He knows more jutsus than anyone else, since his especialty is not only ninjutsu, but also, genjutsu, taijutsu, kinjutsu, kenjutsu and kuchoyose no jutsu

    This is aguy who wants to learn all jutsus in order to become a god.

    nope, the manga hasn't shown anything like that.

    We already know that Itachi is the youngest member that Akatsuki for now, which might explains what he isn't one of the superiors

    Itachi has already disobyed the leader three times alreasy, adn we know what happens when he starts showing acts of rebellion.

    Look what happen to the Uchiha clan.

    Itachi was not the leader but obviously the strongerst one.
    Even his father knew that Itachi had killed Shusui and had obtained MS, and yet he still ordered his around.

    Look at oro he left because of Itachi, not becauuse of this so called leader.

    and also, Itachi was already stronger than Oro, who was one of the most important/superior members of Akatsuki, not to mention that Oro is not the type to follow anyone.

    So Itachi has the power to take out any senoir/superior member of Akatsuki if he wanst to.
     
  6. Tsukiyomi

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    There is a difference between Kakasahi and Sasuke's power and Itachi's power. He not only has the sharingan, but he hands around with Akatsuki members all day, his level of techniques would be far above Kakashi and Sasuke, and any high level techniques Orochimaru uses to counter that could just be copied and used against him.

    I think Orochimaru didn't want all of his best techniques being taken. Also he cannot take Itachi's body for his own because of the nature of his immortality technique. It involves staring into his containers eyes for extended periods of time, against a Mangekyou Sharingan user this would be suicide.

    He may currently be the youngest member, but that doesn't mean he is the youngest member they've ever had. We don't know how old Akatsuki is, Sasori left his village over 20 years ago which means he was there long before Itachi.

    As for disobeying the leader, he never directly disobeyed, he simply looked for easier ways out. When given an order he obeyed instantly.

    There is a difference, Itachi was next in line to be the leader of the Uchiha, so he would have to have been on that level.

    And it would make no sense for Orochimaru to leave because of the leader because the leader is the one who would have had to recruit Orochimaru, so the leader must have been able to offer something he wanted.

    You say Orochimaru would never follow someone, but he obviously did if he was in Akatsuki for any period of time, he didn't say he left because he didn't like following orders either.
     
  7. Takagou

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    Yay! My first point of dissagreement with LotU!! Sir, its an honor! People have been bashing you since the first day i got here, and i always wondered when id get to see why they hate you in debates revolveing the uchiha's so much, weeeeeeee!
    Your arguement was very sound, and made perfect sense...but uuh, I think you should eat your own words about the last statement ^.^;
     
  8. TenshiOni

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    Yikes. I meant jutsu freak. When I wrote ninjutsu i was thinking that i really should just leave it as jutsu but i got lazy, sorry. X_x


    It is true that we have no definitive proof, correct. And that Itachi has the potential to surpass them all.

    I just went with that due to the Leader seeming to have Akatsuki under his control and, it being a Shonen manga, one would usually think that the final villain should be Naruto's final opponent, seeing as this man is hunting down and killing people like him. IMO, i'd make sense to have him being the strongest.

    But, I'm in no opposition to Itachi possibly being the second strongest due to his skill.
     
  9. Insipidipity

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    I agree with the last part of that post about his power being independent of his position.
    Other than that sword, I don't think he knows that many kenjutsus, Kuchiyose no jutsu is a ninjutsu, kinjutsus falls into one of the others, and finally I REALLY doubt we'll see Orochimaru really using any taijutsu techniques(not fighting in general but things like Konoha renpuu/senpuu or Renges)
     
  10. Kakashi_Love inactive

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    I think the Atkatsuki leader is the strongest that's why everyone listens to him. Itachi is stronger than Oro. Oro didnt have to fear the leader because he doesn't dislike him or is in any disagreement with him. But there must be some disagreement with Itachi, maybe Itachi threaten Oro, But I dont think that Oro has reason to fear the leader whereas he has reason to fear Itachi. All in all, I do believe Itachi might have the potential to surpass the leader.
     
  11. Last of the Uchihas

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    Being afraid of the sharingan is one thing, being afraid because someone is stronger than you is anothet thing.


    False, since Oro knows not to uses copiable jutsus in front of Itachi.



    That's the point,

    You guys thinks that all of Oro's jutsus are ninjutsus which is not the case.

    Oro has spent his entire lifetime researching, learning, and creating new jutsu in order to become a God.

    He wants to learn all jutsus, not all ninjutsus. That where the difference lies.

    Oro was in the same organization with :blink Itachi and he knows more about his power than any person from the leaf. He knows what to use and what not to use.

    He has a shit load of jutsus like Edo tensei, the snake scroll, and kusanagi, not to mention all the other non copiable jutsus he mist have,

    True, but he never said he was hit by it, he said that Itachi's strength exceeds his own, which means that Itachi . Oro with al his jutsu, including Manda, edo Tensei, Kusanagi and his shit load of jutsus.

    Not to mention that Oro lost a hand before he leaft Akatsuki which implied that he lost it against Itachi, and we did see Itachi carriying around a katana.

    Noticed that they hand with the ring on it was shown when oro said that he left akatsuki because of Itachi.

    We don't know when Akastuki was formed but we do know that Itachi entered when he was 10/11 years old, which might explain why he isn't considred a senoir/superior member juts like Oro.

    Yeah like the one with capturing Naruto?

    He choosed to ignoed his mission for a mission of his own.

    Then, you have Itachi not telling him anything when he told him if the shairngan user that was on Oro's hand was his brother.

    Then once again, you have Itachi being very vague about describing Narito.

    If Itachi considred himself less stronger than this "leader", he wouldna't hav disobey him three times already and would ahev much respect for him.

    Once again, look what happened to the Uchiha clan when he started to show signs of rebellion, they are 6 feet under.


    Itachi was not the leader, but his father, and he still ordered him around.


    Itachi was also under the Hokage command, and Ithaci was already stronger than him, yet he still followed orders.

    and what make you think that the leader recruited Oro?

    This is a organization with members shares the same ambitions.

    The facts is that oro leaft akatsuki because of Itachi not the leader because he was stronger than him,implying that Itachi is the strongest in Akatsuki, not this called "leader".


    :amazed :amazed :amazed

    False, since we know Oro, and he doesn't follow orders from anyone.

    Oro was one of the most important members of akatsuki, and a great asset of Akatsuki.

    They were ten people in akastuki, so no leader, until the second in commad wanted to take over after he left or something.



    Don't worry :p




    I understand your point.

    There seem to be a "leader" but that doesn't make him the strongest one.

    Look at Gatou, Shikimaru, Tsuande, Fugaku, etc, etc



    he has kusanagi, a mystical sword that he summons, and that Enme is wary off, so Oro is a kenjutsu expert also.

    Kuchiyose no jutsu is not a ninjutsu, but summoning.


    Kinjutsu can be seen in all type of jutsus but Edo Tensei is a kinjutsu which belong to the Kuchiyose no jutsu.


    He is the expert in jutsu since he clearly said he wanted to learn all jutsu and create new one in order to become a god.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  12. Insipidipity

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    Having a sword doesn't make you a sword master...having a sword means you have a sword. Does have a kunai make Naruto a kunai expert? Did having Raijin sword make Aoi a kenjutsu expert? Kenjutsu isnt about the weapon, its how you use it.

    Kuchiyose is a ninjutsu. Summonings fall into ninjutsu category. The only things that don't fit into the 3 categories are seals.
    So basically he wants to learn all the ninjutsus and genjutsus since nothing else requires mixing both seals with chakra.

    He clearly said he wanted to mix all chakra with all seals(hence the comparison to mixing colors). Taijutsu doesnt use seals, hence he wouldn't be interested in learning it.
     
  13. vagnard

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    Well...in my humble opinion Itachi is the second strongest in the Akatsuki

    My personal ranking is

    1-Akatsuki Leader: around Sandaime prime level (shounen manga law says the leader is the strongest in a group)

    2-Itachi: around or little above sannin level

    3-Unknow akatsuki 1: around sannin level (i believe one of the strongest hasn't been shown)

    4-Sasori: around or little below sannin level

    5-Unknow akatsuki 2

    6-Kisame: around eight gates gai level and full power Kakashi

    7-Deidara: same as above

    8-Zetsu: same as above

    9-Unknow Akatsuki 3: same as above
     
  14. Last of the Uchihas

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    Oro wants to learn all the jutsus, and agter that mixed them to crate new ones in order for him to become a God, so that pretty much makes him a expert of every jutsu that he has.


    Kuchiyose can't be ninjutsu since both things are different.


    he clearly said that he wanted to learn al jutus, which means all jutsus.

    To the ones that said that the leader of the villains is the strongest is not almost true.

    Look at Sojirou from RuroKen, he was stronger than Shishou and Kenshin, no to mention that Hiko > anyone, including his disciple Kenshin.
     
  15. Insipidipity

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    Having a sword doesn't mean you know kenjutsus. I'm talking like Dance of the Crescent Moon kenjutsu. Thats a kenjutsu. Kuchiyose IS a ninjutsu( Bookman Lavi FC )

    Ask yourself. How is learning taijutsu going to make him a god? One of The strongest taijutsu moves(Ura Renge) couldnt get rid of Gaara's armor. Its so unimportant, he doesn't even consider it a jutsu.

    The leader of villians is usually the most charismatic. Look at the leader of the Sinister 6 in spiderman, Kingpin, or the leader of how many villians in Superman's world, Lex Luthor. If you were stronger than all of your subordinates, you really have no reason to start a group.
     
  16. Marsala

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    You and LOTU seem to be agreeing on the main point but quibbling over specifics like Oro learning taijutsu. IMO Orochimaru doesn't focus heavily on accumulating taijutsu techniques, but he's still amazingly good at it; Orochimaru is probably the strongest of the Sannin in taijutsu, given Tsunade's difficulty hitting both him and Kabuto and Jiraiya's general non-use of taijutsu in most situations. Orochimaru remained a significant threat even with his arms sealed and his body feverish and dying.
     
  17. Insipidipity

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    I seriously would not say Orochimaru was better than Tsunade at Taijutsu. All I remember him doing was the tongue and biting. The main reason she had a problem was that she was chasing them and they were about the same speed. Basically she couldnt close the gap quick enough to land a decent blow. Its especially hard when you aim for the face instead of the body.

    But overall, I really don't see why Itachi couldn't be the strongest. Like he said, he's young, they probably wouldnt trust him with much authority, and for good reason. I really don't see why people think they have to be all above Kage level. We don't know enough of their past to know how many former members died fighting kages. All we hear are successes against a few out of like 15 kages(past and present) I don't personally think he HAS to be the strongest, but he could be. The only reason why I think he might not be is that there are 4 left, so Kishimoto could be saving the best for last.
     
  18. Last of the Uchihas

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    Oro doesn't have any ordinary sword with him, he has kusanagi a legendaru sword, and its that difficult to say that he is an expert in that since he wants to learn all jutsus.

    He used that sowrd for defending, we didn't see him attacking with it, except in the sannin fight which he used his tongue to attack with his sword.

    Well, its fucking confusing that they would say its the same thing, since they are different thing The main point was that Kuchiyose no jutsu can't be copied by the shairngan.

    that's beside the point, Foe Oro is important since it one step in order for him to become a god.


    and how this goes againt my statement?



    Tsunade is brute strength, not the regular taijutsu that we know, i.e. Gai, Lee and Sasuke.
     
  19. Shishou

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    Ok, you are a fucking retard. The creator of Kenshin said Hiko is the strongest in the series. And if you meant Shishio, then no, he isn't stronger than Shishio.

    Kenshin had already gottened weakened from his fight with Aoshi. And in the end, Kenshin beat him. Soujiro can't even compare to Kenshin by the time of Enishi fight.


    So you are wrong, once again.
     
  20. Insipidipity

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    If he was an expert with kenjutsus why would he just be on the defensive against another weapon he can hurt?

    They're not the SAME thing, Kuchiyose is like a square, Ninjutsus are rectangles.(if you get my analogy, if you don't, retake geometry). It CAN be copied, it just wont summon what you want. If Sasuke has the manda contract and he sharingan's Naruto's Kuchiyose because for some reason he forgot how, he's gonna summon manda, not gamabunta. The ninjutsu itself is to summon, not what you summon(hence why its ranked C even if you summon Gamabunta)

    I really don't think he's going to learn Konoha Senpuu. He says he wants to learn all jutsus. I could say I want to learn all mathematics but I might not be considering statistics because I really don't consider that math. Same deal, he says he wants to, but in the end, he probably wont, and most likely hasn't learned any real Taijutsus.

    And not everything is about you, I was agreeing with your previous point as a rebuttal to a person who posted above me.
     
  21. Last of the Uchihas

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    Kenshin was only able to defeat him because Soujiro had a mental breakdown, not to mention that he was playing with Kenshin in the beginning which would ahve killed him quite easily.

    I just pwned by my, once again. You never learn do you? :p .


    Because he wanted to be an expectator, he wanted to watch Sandaime suffer while he fought his two former sensei.


    He can have the contarct but if he doesn't signed it withhis blood, he will never be able to summon any animal, which is why shairngan would copy the handseals but it won't summon anything because he didn't sign the blood contract require for that.


    he need to learn taijutsu because his research mades him to it, so that he can continue forward with his experiment which is why he want to learn all jutsus.

    No problem, but that wasn't clear in your previous post.
     
  22. Shishou

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    Kenshin beat him. AFTER FIGHTING AOSHI, WE NEARLY SLIT HIS THROAT.

    Kenshin wasn't in perfect condition for the fight, as he had juss battled and hurt himself. And Soujiro wasn't stronger than Shishio, where did you get that? Dear god, you are a fucking retard.
     
  23. Insipidipity

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    It looked to me more like he was just keeping his own ass out of danger.(btw its "spectator")

    When I said he has the Manda contract I mean he's signed under it...I don't mean some silly scroll, I mean he's under contract with them, in other words, blood signed.

    What Research? His research is to figure every way to meld chakra and seals. This is what he calls "all jutsus" because he probably just thinks of taijutsu as plain fighting. Theres nothing to learn in how to kick someone.
     
  24. Last of the Uchihas

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    Kenshin wasn't that fucked up, and Soujiro would have killed Kenshin if he had used his final move from the very start, but didn't and decided to play with Kenshin.

    Kenshin read his enemies's movement by reading their emotions, and Souijoro had no emotions, it was after Kenshin made Soujiro question himself that those emotions came back.

    The point is that Soujiro would have killed killed kenshin in an instant, not to mention that even after being hit with Kenshin "ougi" or whatever its called, which was all in an instant, he was still able to send a farewell present to Shishio by letting him know what leg Kenshin used in his trmp card something that Aoshi was nver able to see

    He is stronger than that mummy.



    No my friend, that would be you.

    May God have pitty on you.



    Oro only defended when Saru tried to attack him.

    Oro was in the back all the time, doing nothing.

    :p

    His research is to learn all jutsu and mixed them in order to become a god.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  25. avioletscream

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    this has gotten a bit overboard =)
     
  26. Nighthawk

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    False. Fugaku didn't know about the mange sharingan. Read the manga. Just look at the way he acted like the "tired-from-the-duties ninja" and then when Fugaku turned around Itachi gave him the mange-go-fuck-yourself stare. The only one who saw it coming was Sasuke.

    Good point. But my theory is the leader is so friggin strong noone would even think about beating him. He's the exception. Itachi is just a kid from the Leaf.

    That you can't say for sure. And of course he can't take out the leader.

    The leader is also the founder of akatsuki. second in command? Does that mean orochimaru was the leader? That doesn't make sense at all. Leader > Itachi > Orochimaru. Live with it. Fanboy.

    You don't seem to understand, Lotu, that a bunch of S-rank criminals who kill people just for fun would never obey someone who is weaker. The Leader is bossing around those guys. Besides, the leader already proved he's the strongest. [kuchiyose no jutsu and shouten no jutsu]

    Nope. Kuchiyose is a ninjutsu.
     
  27. Marsala

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    Itachi is a villain of critical importance in the story of Naruto. He is very strongly tied to both Sasuke and Naruto. The only villain arguably more prominent in the story is Orochimaru, who flat out admitted that Itachi is stronger. Itachi's existence and importance have been foreshadowed since Chapter 4. If there is ever some threat that Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura must unite against to defeat, Itachi is the most likely candidate to be it.

    The Akatsuki leader was introduced on the last page of Chapter 238. His name, identity and even existence are so far unknown to the main characters. His only distinctive feature is his eyes which strongly resemble those of Kurenai, someone who is not remotely major character. The Akatsuki leader is notable only because he gives the orders to the other Akatsuki. Presumably he is very strong, but Itachi and Orochimaru eclipse him by far in importance to the plot with their personal connections to the heroes. The Akatsuki leader is the sort of generic evil leader-type that one of the main villains kills off (probably Orochimaru since Akatsuki will go after him soon) to show how strong they are. The Akatsuki leader could turn out to have some strong relation to a main character (I find it curious that we never saw the face of Hatake Sakumo, even in a mask), but it's not likely at this point.

    It's notable that Itachi followed the leader's order to describe Naruto in the most contrary way possible without actively disobeying. Itachi was clearly passive-aggressively resisting the leader's authority with that response. Itachi would not refuse a direct order since it might get him kicked out of the organization and thus deprived of a chance to get ahold of the power they are all after, since Itachi presumably couldn't perform an extraction alone. Also, Sasori and Deidara would have able to identify the jinchuuriki anyway even without Itachi's help, so there would have been no point in completely disobeying over something ultimately pointless.
     
  28. Last of the Uchihas

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    lol, Fugaku knew that Shusui was like a brother to Itachi and he also knew how to obtain MS, and he also knew that Itachi's behaviour and speeches had changed for the worst.

    When he heard that the police were accusing him of killing Shushui, he knew that Itachi did it for MS.

    How that fuck SasukE was able to figure it out own his own and not Fugaku, who knows everything about the clan and MS.

    Itachi only told Sasuke that in order to gain MS, he must killed his best friend, and Sasuek on hsi won thougth of Shusui, and said to Itachi, is that why you killed Shusui-san?


    Sasuke came to that conclusion two years later, while Fugaku knew it already, which is why he told Sasuke, not to follow on his brother's steps.



    That's the prolem. People keep calling him this kid.

    This so called kid, just happen to be stronger than Oro, who is a genius that come every few decades, the first candidate for the Yondaime Hokage, the strongest sannin, one of the most important /superior members of Akatsuki and the Otokage of the Sound Village by the age of 10/11.

    and not only that, but he killed the strongest, feared and greatest clan of all by himself in a single night when he was only 13 years old.

    This kid just happens to be the greatest genius the academy have ever seen since its foundation, and there have been no one like him.

    This kid was so great that he didn't have any sensei, he leanred things on his own.

    This kid just happen to reached the kage level when he was just 10/11 years old and he did it on his own, without having a sannin or a Hokage as his sensei.

    Tell me how this kid is just but a kid?


    I can, since Oro was one of the most important/superior members of Akatsuki,and Oro doesn't follow anyone.


    You have no evidece, while i do.

    It was already staed that Itachi can take out susperior members of Akatsuki, for example Oro.


    Lol, this is an organization of originally ten people which everyone had a partner, and everyone share the same ambition. Its after Oro leave that one was left without a partner which from there on a leadership was decided, and obviously they wouldn't give it to Itachi because he is the youngest there, and the last member to have joined.

    Hell, even the King of Hell, Hades follows Akatsuki, not the Leader.

    Hades is useless without the other members.


    Criminal is a word that can be look from amy different angles.

    All Shinobis are criminals in some sense and it all depend from what side you are looking at it. Bad people can be good people if view from their own point, and vive versa.

    The point is that if there is a leader, it doesn't mean that he or she is the strongest.

    He could be the mastermind, he could be the one founding the organization with his money, look at Gatou, look at Shikamaru, Look at Tsunade, Look at Fugaku, and so forth.

    The point is that Itachi is the youngest member, and the last to joined which explains his "low rank" and that he kill when he starts showing acts of rebellion. Look at the Uchiha clan.

    We know that Itachi can kill superior members if he wants to.



    lol, It was proven that the King of Hades follows only Akatsuki, not the leader.

    It was also shown that it only works with the other members giving it chakra, so it would be useless without the other member's chakra. Manda or Gamabunta would kill that summon quite easily.


    lol, what a joke!

    So what will they leader do?

    Do a clone of himself and add chakra to it, just in case he gets his ass kicked? lol

    Or did you forgot that that shouten no jutsu was so crappy that Kakashi figured it out that it was fake and that its strength its limited to the chakra he give the jutsu.

    Meaning that Edo Tensei > shouten no jutsu by far.



    Its still can't be copied.
     
  29. cygnus

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    Itachi is a smart-ass, its like when your parents tell you to do something so you half ass it to show that you dont care what they think. You still know that they can kick your ass but you know that unless you give them a proper reason they won't. Just because these people are able to capture the youma('s) doesn't mean that they have extremely short fuses, ya know.
     
  30. Naruto_Heart

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    yea, i do see your point of argument,

    however, if we were to look from another perspective, Itachi is nothing but a main element to a sub plot, Sasuke's development, albeit it's an important one.

    The foreshadowing has been such that Sasuke would be the one to defeat Itachi, unless Kishimoto suddenly change his idea.

    Though Sasuke is one of the most important characters in the manga, he isn't the main character, where the honour belongs to Naruto.

    And if Itachi is the ultimate target for Sasuke, a character of only secondary importance as of to Naruto, how sane is it to reserve the strongest character for Sasuke to defeat and in turn leaving nothing for Naruto?

    If the above mentioned were to happen, it would only destroy the whole plot of the story.

    Unless the combination of the trio defeating Itachi mentioned by you is to happen, Itachi got zero chance of being the strongest villain.
     
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