1. chrolloseum
    Take your chances in The Chrolloseum!
    Opened September 29th through October 15th
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice

Ishida/Kenpachi vs. Ichigo/Renji

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Insipidipity, Aug 14, 2005.

Ishida/Kenpachi vs. Ichigo/Renji

  1. Ishada and Kenpachi

    36 vote(s)
    53.7%
  2. Ichigo and Renji

    31 vote(s)
    46.3%
  1. Insipidipity

    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    I was just thinking, if Ishida could create that insane bow with just Ichigo's normal spirit force and his nonglove bow, if he matched up with Kenpachi with the eyepatch off, his bow might be as powerful as when he broke the glove.

    Um...consider this in 2 ways.
    1. with the glove broken and bankais
    and then 2. with the glove intact and no bankais(Shikai only)

    Who would win?
     
    Tags:
  2. Hef

    Messages:
    6,824
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    1. Ichigo beat Kenpachi in the past, and seeing that he has grown immensely since that, it would be an easy defeat. Ishida might be a problem, so this could go either way. I'm going to say IchiRen for the win, because 2 bankais > high spirit pressure and a bow
    2. Easily for IchiRen, same reasoning as above. Now it's just easier because Ichigo and Renji don't need to worry about Ishida that much. :tem
     
  3. Bass

    Messages:
    20,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    ....Well, I know for sure that Kenpachi can take out Renji.....and that Ichigo can beat Uryuu......but the real battle will be Ichigo vs. Kenpachi.


    I'm pretty sure that Zaraki will probably take off the bells and the eye-patch for this fight.
     
  4. Insipidipity

    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    If he took off bells and eye patch and flashstepped, Ichigo would have a hard time. But don't you agree that being next to Kenpachi would allow Uryuu to fire off an insanely powerful arrow like he was going to try against Menos Grande except bigger?
     
  5. Bass

    Messages:
    20,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005


    True. But it has to hit and Ichigo's bankai's speed is....well, you know.
     
  6. Hatsune Miku

    Messages:
    7,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
  7. slasher1001

    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Two Bankai Versus,one Crazy Spiritual Power And Another Gaining His Power By Talking From The Enviroment,well I Go For Two Bankai.
     
  8. Rice Ball

    Messages:
    14,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    491
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    This is how i see it.

    Ishada = Ichigo
    Kenpachi > Renji
     
  9. Rice Ball

    Messages:
    14,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    491
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    People really underestimate Kenpachi ever since Ichigo beat him :(

    If you look at the battle, Kenpachi was so overjoyed that ichigo was able to hurt him, he didn't bother defending himself at all during that battle.

    Spoiler:
    Ichigo quickly left the room when Kenpachi challenged him for a rematch :D Kenpachi's power is greater than a normal bankai, 2 captians didn't even make him remove bells/patch
     
  10. Potentialflip

    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    No one is underestimating Kenpachi here (remember Ichigo didn't technically beat him). The thing is Ichigo does have the well that thing in my avy. While Kenpachi did beat Tousen. The fight between him and Komamura barely even began.

    Spoiler: I think you misunderstand things
    If I were in Ichigo's case I would have left too. I don't want to deal with a crazy power hungry nut case like Kenpachi even if I know I could beat him.


    I mean the dude would have gotten owned more faster if he had fought Aizen with only his Shi Kai. Ichigo made him fell with a strike from his Shi Kai. With his Ban Kai ability (as well as a black well you know; far stronger than the shi kai one) Kenpachi chances are a little diminished.

    Ichigo was someone who survived the dreaded HakurteiKen as well as (Tsukiyomi's number one reason Kenpachi can't beat Byakuya) the Senbonzakura Kage Yoshi.
     
  11. Rice Ball

    Messages:
    14,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    491
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    I would use spoilers for all the manga bits :)

    I just ment if Kenpachi ever got serious, his enemy (even if it was Byakuya) would be in deep shit.
    Spoiler:
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but the only thing that seemed too increase during ichigo's bankai was his speed (which greatly improved) we haven't really seen Kenpachi use of speed yet, during his fight with Ichigo, the most we saw of his speed was when he was testing to see if ichigo could hear his bells or not



    About the Captain fight-
    Spoiler:
    I know the Komamura fight hadn't even began, but Tousen was dispatched with such ease and the captains were soo close i didn't expect him to do much better. You'd think the captains would know each others strenght
     
  12. endgame

    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    If Ishida's glove is intact and shikai only, Ichigo and Renji would win because Ichigo beat Kenpachi with his shikai already, and Renji has improved.

    Without the glove, I'm not so sure. Since Ishida without the glove can collect a bigger amount of spiritons, if Ichigo and Kenpachi was around wouldn't he have a more powerful arrow? But then Ichigo has his bankai, so I haven't made up my mind yet. >_>
     
  13. SloppyJoe

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Kenpachi > then all.
    soooo.... yea u know my vote.
     
  14. Potentialflip

    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Sorry if I spoiled the little kiddies. But I go with what the OP points out. If the OP spoiled then I will most likely do the same. But once again sorry if the non-manga people got spoiled.

    Spoiler: People always tend to forget this famous part
    There is more to it than just speed. Hollow Ichigo showed a hint of this when he pointed out "I will show you how to use this BAN KAI". So there is more to it than just his speed. Kenpachi's speed I doubt can catch up to Ichigo's. Just my take on it. Boy if Tsukiyomi saw what you just pointed out your gonna get it. But I'll leave it to him for you. While I don't agree totally with him I do have to say Kenpachi is not all that.
    In the end we know Ichigo can cut Kenpachi now. The fact that he has speed and possibly other hidden talents with that Ban Kai. I will say Ichigo > Kenpachi.

    Well this only shows that he is not really that dumb and can take a good knowledge of the battle when it is stacked up against him. After all everyone has nearly agreed Tousen wouldn't do such a good job against probably all the captains.
    Spoiler: You'd think
    After what Aizen has done you'd know that is a useless comment. Remember not everyone here are friends. They don't train together. The only way to know your opponent. So no, I don't think the captains would know each others strength.


    In the end after looking it at the OP's P.o.V. If it were only Shikai's then it probably will be Ishida and Kenpachi.
     
  15. monk3

    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    dude. ishida and kenpachi. that'd be like, the hugest ass bow. and the power would be like the shit. so definetly them
     
  16. Rice Ball

    Messages:
    14,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    491
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    tbh we know whats going to happen don't we

    The Moment the glove is removed, Kenpachi will sence the spirit power and turn on ishida since he'd be worth fighting.
     
  17. Shishou

    Messages:
    2,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Ishida and Kenpachi.

    Reasons stated above.
     
  18. asiangeekboy

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    I would probably have to say that Ichigo/Renji would win. The reason is because Ichigo's bankai is as fast as hell and he's near unstoppable when he turns hollow. Ishida's movement is fast. However, I still believe that Ichigo + hollow + speed bankai > speed of spirit step + speed of bow. When one's speed is greater than the other, the other guy just seems like a slow poke. And since Ishida is really only a skilled long - range fighter, he's doomed when Ichigo uses his speed to come up close and end the battle quickly.
    *Also Hollow Ichigo can fight long range I think. Black Zanegetsu is like an air blade attack which may cancel out Ishida's bow. Otherwise, Hollow Ichigo would probably know whether or not it can because he's pretty skilled.


    With Renji and Kenpachi, I would have to say that Renji would lose since they both soley rely on power (non power = Aizen's illusion, The one hit butterfly thing (sorry forgot the name), ect.) However, Renji could hold off Kenpachi until Ichigo finishes his fight. I think that Ichigo alone could defeat Kenpachi after fighting Ishida because of the immense power just from his bankai. (It is not known whether Kenpachi knows the name of his zanpakto so I will assume that he will know it in this battle.) Basically put: If it was normal Ichigo and Renji then I think the battle could go either way. But, if Ichigo was to turn hollow and use it to his advantage, then I think he could handle Kenpachi and Ishida alone.

    About Ishida's ability to absorb spirit energy: I doubt it'd like that where he absorbs everything in sight. I mean, if it was like that then I think that the nature around him would be dying and he could just use their reiatsu against them. Even if he manages to make a giant bow, can he still use it effectively? I don't think that he has experience dealing with a bow that big.
     
  19. blues

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Well, lets see. Ishida sans glove, shot through Mayuri and his Bankai in one shot. Renji has a similar Bankai but can't survive a gaping whole in the torso. And since (from what we've seen) it's always Captain>Vice Captain. Ishida takes this.

    As for Ichigo vs Zaraki. Well, he fought him to a stalemate and was declared winner by Zaraki with shikai...so a stronger, faster better version of Ichigo would natrually defeat him.

    So, it'd all come down to Ichigo vs Ishida. Wich would be a fight to behold, but Ichigo would probably win.
     
  20. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Whoa...Ishida equal to Ichigo? Are you high? Ishida beat Mayuri, big deal, he didn't seem like much of a powerful captain to me, Ichigo beat Kenpachi and Byakuya, two of the most powerful captains.

    With Ban Kai Ichigo kills them both in a few seconds, without I still think he and Renji will win, Ichigo has become far stronger than he was when he faced Kenpachi and with flash step at his disposal I don't see how Kenpachi can touch him.
     
  21. Sogetsu.

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Depends on the point in time. I give the fight to Ichigo/Renji with bankai Ichigo but Renji wouldn't be any help at all
     
  22. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Not at all? Without taking off his glove Ishida is beneath VC level, Renji is arguably the strongest VC, and his Ban Kai would more than balance out the broken glove.

    Ichigo and Kenpachi are another matter.
     
  23. Sogetsu.

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    I know he could take on Ishida, I just meant that Ichigo could win the fight without Renji's help
     
  24. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Ah I see, on that I agree, his mere reiatsu could smother Ishida.
     
  25. Last of the Uchihas

    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Ishida and Kenpachi would massacre Ichigo and Renji.
     
  26. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    What are you basing that off of?

    Ichigo could match Kenpachi's raw eye-patchless power with just his Shikai, and this is before Ban Kai and his training with Zangetsu which boosted him immensly.

    Ishida is nothing if he doesn't remove his glove, he couldn't match a VC, let alone a high VC like Renji with Ban Kai.
     
  27. Insipidipity

    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Keep in mind that Ishida doesnt use his own reiatsu, he takes it from the surroundings. Breaking the glove just affects how efficiently he absorbs it. With these 3 others on the field, I wouldn't doubt if Ishida's power would rival any of theirs since he's the only one that can absorb it from the atmosphere, he'd have 3x the reiatsu at his disposal. His bow should at least be able to destroy Renji's Bankai with that kind of power.
     
  28. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Mayuri's' Ban Kai seemed pretty weak to me, its main strength was its poison, and Renji's is capable of breaking apart and attacking from all sides, how is he going to destroy that?

    Even with that kind of Reiatsu at his disposal I doubt it would protect him from power like Renji's Ban Kai. You have to keep in mind Renji has 5-10 times his normal Reiatsu in his Ban Kai state, so his Ban Kai would pack quite a wallop as well.
     
  29. Insipidipity

    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Well keep in mind how easily he destroyed Jidanbou's shikai. I'm not saying its comparable in power, but I think theres probably just as many pieces to it, and they're bigger targets. Yes, Renji has 5-10x his normal reiatsu and so does Ichigo and Kenpachi without his eyepatch, they all have massive reiatsu. Remember how powerful Ishida's bow got when he DIDNT have the glove and Ichigo WASNT able to control his reiatsu. While Renji's Ban Kai would pack a wallop, he'd pack 5x his normal damage, on the other hand, Ishida probably would be doing more than 15x his normal damage.

    The nature of his attacks seem like he'd be able to destroy his bankai, especially since Bankai takes 10 years to perfect, while the glove apparently take 7 days.
     
  30. Tsukiyomi

    Messages:
    20,261
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    You need to keep in mind the starting points, Renji is starting from a FAR higher point than Ishida, so the 5-10x increase carrys more weight. Not to mention Renji used his Ban Kai to block a blast from Byakuya that looked almost on par with Ishida's blast (though I'll admit Ishida's was probably stronger) and did so with no damage (other than a disturbance in its energy flow).

    And like I said, unlike Mayuri's Ban Kai, Renji's can break up and attack from all around, so an arrow like he used on Mayuri would be useless.
     
Loading...