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Islamic Hell........why?

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by MartialHorror, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. MartialHorror

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    Anyway, I've spoken with two Muslims over this and have gotten two answers......................

    This is a responce to that only Muslims can go to heaven. Once Islam came to be, that Judiasm and Christianity no longer mattered.

    This is not an anti-islam thread, as much as he being curious.

    Why would God go out of his way to damn people for the sake of spreaidng his word?

    Now, in my Christian beliefs, I believe that its sin that brings us to hell more than belief.....and even that to me is debatable(many verses support God forgiving everyone)

    First there was Judaesm. Unfortunatly, the Jews didn't really seem interesting in spreading the word so hence from Judaesm, came Christ. Eventually this did cause Gods word to be spread around the world.

    But the creation of Islam would have damned more people than saved. Judaesm and Christianity did not damn anyone else who wasn't already damned. Yet the creation of those two spread the word so saving everyone. Yet Islam seems to have ultimately destroyed what God set out to do in the first place. Instead of saving people, he's damning them.

    This is under the belief that Jews and Christians go to hell. It's a debatable subject and this is only debating the Muslims who think only Muslims go to heaven.

    As I said, its not an attack on Islam. I just want a straight out answer. I respect Islam almost as much as I respect Christianity. So dont take me the wrong way.
     
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  2. The Emperor

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    No it was the same answer ^___^

    I told you to believe in God as the only God... and you will prevent being in Hell for Eternity...

    Jawwad said only Muslims go to Heaven right!?

    ok let's explain this... what does it mean to be A MUSLIM?

    Muslim as an Arabic word means someone who gave up everything to God which means he won't defy God and do as he ordered...

    What do you need to do to be a Muslim??

    You need to Believe in god as the only God and believe Mohammed was a prophet

    So I asked you did you believe Mohammed was a Prophet?!

    So basically whoever believes in God as the only god and Mohammed is his prophet then you prevent living in Hell for eternity, which also makes you a Muslim... so both answers are almost the same ^_^

    However if you worship anything beside God you will go to Hell for Sure even if you consider yourself a Muslim

    this includes anyone saying God has child or wife or if he share things with another God... or even worship stones, sun, or anything else

    explain it more please...

    See it is sins that decides if you taste hell or not even if you a Muslim

    but the believe is what decides where you will live for (Eternity)

    if you did any of the following you will live in Hell forever with no forgiveness:

    * worship anything beside God including normal people, prophets, angels, sun, trees, stones, etc

    * believing that god has relatives


    IF you at least say that there is no God but God creator of everything then you might be forgiven and not live in hell (forever) (this is something we don't know so we can't just clearly say what will happen to the “people of the book” in the end since not all of them say god has a child)

    But if you turn into a Muslim you won't be thrown into hell (forever) in the end God will forgive you even if your sins are great!!

    for me as a Muslim I might still be thrown into hell if I have sins more than good things... I don't want to be thrown into hell even for a second so I try my best to worship God and pray and not do sins... in the end God forgives his slaves/worshippers... so let's hope we go to heaven without being thrown into hell...

    Consider the after life... see how many lives Islam actually saved...

    If all Jews and Christians weren't going to hell then why would God send a new prophet??? as I said before Moses and Jesus' religion was Islam which mean they only worshipped God but man changed everything through time...

    It is not God who is damning people it is people who changed and worship things beside God

    it is good you are researching at least ^__^

    I hope I gave you an answer... But let me make sure from some one who knows even more than me in Islam and I will reply you...
     
  3. Pimp of Pimps

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    The way I was taught, eventually all humans will go to heaven. Some will just take longer than others.
     
  4. escamoh

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    I was told that even if a persons religon isn't Islam, if they have strong faith in one God and are religous and such that they'll go to heaven.

    So I guess it doesn't mean that only muslims are gonna end up in heaven and everyone else is gonna go to hell.
     
  5. The Emperor

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    Esca3 :

    Are you a Muslim 0_0?

    I thought me and Delta Shell were the only Muslims in the forum :D
     
  6. Kamendex

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    that became true once their holy scriptures became corrupted and the word of god lost

    but when it wasnt, it was a trilogy with the Qu'ran completeing it
    this is true

    but muslim by definition is what u described up at the top mostly
     
  7. escamoh

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    Yeah I am. There's quite a few on this forum too...

    But I'm not exactly a religous guy.
     
  8. Megaharrison Retired Staff

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    I've been told by Muslim members of this board who I will not mention specifically, that I am going to Hell due to the fact I am Jewish.

    It should be noted that since overall Islamic practices and society hasn't changed since the Middle Ages, they still hold onto infidels suffer in eternal damnation type of beliefs that are largely considered primitive by the industrialized world today.
     
  9. The Emperor

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    MartialHorror:

    I asked someone who know more than me in Islam...

    He said God told us that WHOEVER CHOOSES a religion other than Islam is in Hell forever...

    If you believe God is 1 and only 1 and if you believe Mohammed was his prophet then follow his path and be a Muslim to go to Heaven... otherwise I am sorry to say you will be in hell forever...

    Esca3 :
    Wow!!! I never knew it!!! great ^__^ where are you from?

    BTW Ramadhan Mobarak to you ^_~ Because I am in Ramadhan I am spreading the word of Islam hear in this Forum :D

    Anyway I should start calling you Brother from now on ^_~
     
  10. Kamendex

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    Since when was the industrialized world today right about everything...


    the shit that goes on these days is pathetic

    go to any club ull see half the girls in tiny ass fucking g-strings dancing on tables and giving free blowjobs and spreading all kinds of nasty shit...

    people need to learn from the fucking middle ages before we spread a plague worse then the bubonic, aids...
     
  11. MartialHorror

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    Okay, first off on my comment.

    1) If Christians(and Jews?) went to heaven before Mohommed came and spread his word, then u can say whatever billions of people will go to heaven. But if its just Muslims, then its only a billion. Hence, Islam would have screwed people over more than helped, but this was before you responded I said this.........

    2) So If I am a Christian, or Jew, but not a Muslim, then I do go to hell? I believe in one God, but I believe he takes many different forms. I believe God came to earth as Christ. But I only believe in one God. And why would God care if I consider Mohhomed to be a prophet? Especially considering in Islam, Christ>Mohhomed. To God, that is. Yet Muslims seem to deem Mohhomed as more important.

    3) As I said, why would God let his most beloved prophets scripture become corrupted? Especially considering that if "1" is correct, that bringing in his so called true word would damn more people than save? Why would he have even given a scripture if our all knowing God knew it would be corrupted.
     
  12. Megaharrison Retired Staff

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    They are the sources of continued human technological and social evolution. They represent progress. Their credibility is better then cultures that practice outdated ideologies .

    The ancient Greeks and Romans had mass orgies too. In fact our sexual culture is far more insecure and modest then those of antiquity. There is nothing pathetic about natural human sexuality.

    Yes, slavery and people being treated as property, fanatical and blind religious devotion, sexism, racism, horrific intolerance, massive genocide, losing technology...The Middle Ages was such a wonderful time.
     
  13. Nega

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    I think he meant we should learn from their mistakes.
     
  14. Kamendex

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    ya...and not to mention half that shit he brought up is still happening today
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
  15. Dionysus

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    Wasn't that what the Renaissance was all about?

    Human sexuality isn't a problem. You might not like it due to religious reasons, but strip clubs aren't going to ravage the world.

    STDs might be a problem. But condom use it pretty common in industrialised nations. There are huge hidden STD problems in certain theocracies. The plague (like most diseases transmitted by rodents) isn't much of a problem in richer nations. The flu originates in squalor too. Usually people living with livestock.

    But, again. Nothing to do with skimpy clothing or strip clubs.

    Hot and humid weather, yes. That has lots to do with skimpy clothing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2006
  16. Sakuragi

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    Dude, the original Jews (who believed in One God ie Islam) will be in Heaven. Then, once Christianity came, the Christians (who believed in One God ie Islam) will be in Heaven. However, now that Islam is the final and complete revelation from God, all of its adherents will go to heaven.

    Islam will not screw more people, it'll save more. There is an authentic hadith that I read somewhere saying that the largest ummah (followers of a specific prophet) to go to heaven will be the Prophet Muhammad's. Yes, more than Moses' and Christs'. Dude, just look at how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and in the west, it is the fastest, so pretty soon we are going to be one of the majority, if God Wills. (Most of the converters are female btw, for those who think that its a male biased religion :amuse)

    Also, we believe that when Christ will come back down to earth, Christianity will be abolished and mostly everybody in the world will be Muslim. So it might seem like that to you now, but look out in the future. Anyhow, on to number two..

    There are only two kinds of people in this world: Muslim and Kaafir. If you are Muslim, then you believe and accept "Tawheed". And that is (pay attention now) to believe in and make Allah unique in who He is and to single Him out as an object of worship.

    Tawheed is the purpose of creation: I have only created Jinn and Men to worship Me. [Dhariyat:57] Tawheed is why the Prophets were sent: We have not sent any prophet except that we have inspired him with La illa ha ill Allah. [AlAnbiyya: 25] Tawheed is the reason why the Books were sent: Jibreel (Gabriel) comes with the Revelation to spread La illa ha illa Ana [Nahl: 3] The Shahada seperetes Muslims from Kaffirs: Some of you are Momin and Some of you are kaafir. [Taghabun:2] Tawheed brings contentment: Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest. [Raad:28]

    Tawheed is a cause of the forgiveness of sins, and Tawheed the cause for the entrance to Heaven. So now, with that said, if you accept Tahweed, then you are Muslim, if you do not, then you are, by default, a Kaafir.

    Not all kaafirs are the same though, one kind are Mushriks, they are those who commit Shirk. Shirk is divided into three catogories that are based on the certain aspects of Tawheed rejected. People like the Christains, Jews, athiests, philosophers, Zorostrians are all under the same subcategory of Shirk. [This gets even more detailed...will cut to the chase] But still, Christians commit a type of Shirk which is basically giving the rights of Allah to other than Allah. So do not make, along with Allah, partners while you know (that He is the true Creator). [2:22]

    Although Christians believe in One God, you are still in a state of worshipping a being besides Allah (ie Jesus): ...And those, whom you invoke or call on instead of Him, own not even a qitmeer. If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call, and if they were to hear, they could not grant it to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you like Him Who is the All-Knower. [Faatir:13-14]

    Oh, and btw, who told you that in Islam Christ > Mohammad? And in what way is Christ > Mohammad? Mohammad is the Seal of the Prophets of God and he is the one of the two Best Prophets of God, sent to Mankind (the other being Abraham, FYI).

    The Christains and Jews had their tests during their life, and now their tests are given as an example to Muslims in the Quran. We are to learn from what they did in history. Yes, their original texts have been altered. The Quran however has not even been changed with a single dot for 14 centuries. This, I believe, is a sign of it being the Truth. And as I said, it will save more people than it will damn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  17. T4R0K

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    That's the precise thing that irks me. "SHOW ME YOUR LOVE OR DIE !" *dun dun duuuunnn*
    So basically, he'd created us just to suck it up to him ? In my mind, when I think of God, I cannot imagine he'd ask for that ! That's... very low, more awaitable of a power hungry human than a humble godly being.
     
  18. maj1n

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    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world because most Islamic countries are poor and have above-average poverty, it is the high birth rates among these Muslims that make Islam the fastest growing religion.

    In Western countries, your claim is not true, studies show the conversion rate is far higher for people to christianity then anyone to Islam.

    But we must not forget that in Islam, you try to convert out of it, your penalty is to be killed.

    I wouldnt spread around your claim because its tainted with bad things.

    @MartialHorror: All religions are simply beliefs of societies and cultures hundreds and thousands of years old, one person in this thread already knows that and has made it clear.

    Your asking why why why? when it seems immoral, barbaric or just plain illogical, its cus it is immoral and barbaric and plain illogical in todays western secular modern society.

    I feel bad for Iran personally, did you know that before Islam overthrew the Government there, their economy was good and rising? now its crap and they have below-global average income per household.

    Sad really.
     
  19. Toby

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    Is anybody here actually qualified to answer for the religion Islam when there is no officially recognised supervisor of the religion? The preachers of Islam must now gather and make an official form of expression to protect their religion from being stigmatised by the funnel of a war on terrorism. There is significant reason to believe that we are most likely fighting the old cultures from whence we came, and it is shameful that this is how the West should return to the ME.

    This thread ought to aim at rationalising rather than answering for what in my opinion seems to be an assault on all monotheistic religions. For showing the will to talk it over as rational human beings you are in fact not going to get at what you seek; which is a logic explanation.

    There is nothing wrong in discussing the religious content, but aim this attempt at understanding each other rather at solving differences more than making them.
     
  20. Spirit

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    Yep....i thought this thread would make it differrent than the others.


    People should know, what a religion is all about, and why still there are people that still believe in it when there things that you hear, irks you, or disgusts you, in the religion. Find out for yourselves before you start stereotyping yourselves. Have better understanding.
     
  21. Spirit

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    are you saying, that regardless of religion, as long as a person never commits any sin, he will not go to hell? will he go to heaven? or heaven is just for christians?

    to simplify what the emperor and jawwad has said, Hell, in islam, is an eternal home for non-believers, but just a temporary torture house for the sinners. A couple unforgivable sins i think many non-muslims should know are syirik [shirk]
    and suicide. Therefore, please judge the suicide bomber accordingly, and leave the name Islam out of it.


    But in the end, it really is God himself who decides whether to forgive or not. As human, we can never run away from committing sins. But these sins are forgivable as long as we're still alive and ask for forgiveness, not matter how big your sins are. God is All-Merciful.
     
  22. MartialHorror

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    Heaven is people who havent sinned or have been forgiven for sins. if you are an Atheist who never sinned, then you wont go to hell. Is Heaven for Christians? Hard to say. Its not the religion you follow who gets to heaven(In this case, Christianity), because I think many supposed Christians will go to hell. it's generally that if you accept Christ, you will be cleansed of your sins. On the other hand, Christ says at one point he will forgive whoever speaks against him but speaking against God is an entirely different thing, which means Jews, Muslims, Hindus(Depends on them) or any theist might be able to get to heaven. other verses imply everyone will be forgiven. I dont think it is in black in white for this reason.
     
  23. MartialHorror

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    1) So are you saying Christians and JEws today go to hell or not? and Majin explained the rise of Islam.

    2) But if he doesnt come in my lifetime, does that mean I go to hell because I am a Christian?

    3) Except Christians believe Christ is God incarnate. Hence, its worshiping God. And who else does Jews worship?

    4) Er, maybe that everyware I've read about Jesus in the Koran begins with "Jesus is Gods MOST BELOVED prophet?" Hence, to God, Jesus is a better prophet than Mohhomed.

    5) Wrong, Christianity has not changed. Especially Judaesm hasnt either. This is an urban legend. Muslims BELIEVE the Bible has changed. But it has never been proven. The dead sea scrolls show Judaesm has been the same since BC(dont remember exact year) and generally all yuo can say about Christianity is that they cut out the fake or gnostic gospels. There. has. been. no. proof. that. the. Bible. Has. changed.
     
  24. Dr.Douchebag

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    Islam was introduced so that the christians and jews would convert prophet muhammad (PBUH) was a messenger for everyone there were many jews and christians who converted to islam just like how many jewish people converted to christianity when prohpet Isa (jesus) PBUH came

    so the damnnation is not accepting the message of god and this is with every single prophet not only muhammad (PBUH)
     
  25. MartialHorror

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    Except why believe Muhammad and not the Bible?

    As I said, I find it hard to believe that God would allow his most beloved disciples gospel to be corrupted. And if God is willing to sacrifice Jews and Christians for the sake of finally getting his word across, which isn't that much different than what was out, then I can't say we worship the same God.......
     
  26. Spirit

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    why believe in muhammad? muhammad brought the final version of what God has to say.

    why do you need to believe in bible? which bible do you believe in because there are many VERSIONS of it? why are there versions if the bible is the words of God? It's natural for religions to contradict each other, but if the Holy book of one religion itself contradicts each other, say, one statement says one thing in one version, and says the other in another version. is not the word of God? if not why believe in that? If so, why has there been so many VERSIONS for just ONE religion? Isnt a religion is suppossed to be appropriate for all time? why need versions?

    The Koran on the other hand, is like you said, protected by God from changes. Numerous attempt has been done to change even a tiny detail in it, but none survived. Is it not a miracle? Why not believe in that?

    and finally, if you do not believe in muhammad, then surely you are expecting another prophet sent by God, to prove how muhammad screwed up. but instead, christians believed in the return of christ, which is also has no objection about it in islam. But what other prophercy is there in the bible?

    if what was told by islam is at fault, then by now, after islam, there should be another religion that claims to worship the same god as the muslims, christians and jews. but there is none. why is that? did it not only prove the truth in muhammad's word when he confessed to be the last of the prophets?

    why shouldnt we believe in that?
     
  27. Zhongda

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    hmmm... I've also heard this from some idiots, so i asked them if mother Theresa is going to hell.
     
  28. MartialHorror

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    er, Sasori, the world hasn't ended yet. Keep in mind, many people claim to be Prophets, yet generally aren't considered that.

    Anyways, do you even want me to post all the prophecies in the Bible that have come true?

    I see your point, but keep in mind the Bible HAS NEVER changed. This is a legend, a myth, probably created by opponents of the Bible. Things like King James and NIV are basically the same, just worded differently.

    And I can guess the Koran isn't 100% the same when it goes from arabic to english.
     
  29. T4R0K

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    This is absolutly correct. To understand fully what is written in it, knowledge of koran arabic (and not just arabic) is important. And it's pretty difficult, according to my father. Sometimes, you have to interpret some sentences, because they can have different meanings (like many books that use metaphors, you could say). That litterary arabic is difficult to grasp because of many allegories. It requires an healthy intellect, wisdom, and to be ready to think about it. Misinterpretation is too frequent and you know to what it lead...

    There happen to be messy arguments between muslims scholars, some resulting into fights (oh, I'm not forgetting the Catholic-Protestant strife. 30 years of war in Germany in the 17th century) That's where you have different sects of Islam. Dad told me the Koran was one, unchanged for ages, but that the people's opinions were different. Also, Islam is not one, but diverse, though relying on the same book. If I was to become religious and join one of the movements, I'd join one of the sufisms ( , I'm reading the link ATM. OK, it's Wiki, not very reliable, but it's a beginning), that are more tolerant than the Wahhabies or Salafies. Sufists are sometimes considered hereticals by those 2 other interpretations (sources of many violent groups) because some of their movements give a better place to women, accept better other beliefs and think in improvement rather than in strict following.

    For more info, I'll ask my father today, when I go visit him. Might have hints, but he's not always reliable too.
     
  30. Razza

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    Throughout history, every religion has thought of the others as just plain bad. If Bob is part of X religion, he thinks that everyone else who isnt part of his religion will go to hell because they do not beleive in what Religion X beleives in. This is proof that religion itself is 90% human creation based on fear and uncertinty. This is why I dislike most religion.
     
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