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Itachi vs Aizen (Bleach Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Manga/Anime Battledome' started by Lucero del Alba, Apr 24, 2005.

Itachi vs Aizen

  1. Itachi

    12 vote(s)
    29.3%
  2. Aizen

    29 vote(s)
    70.7%
  1. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    Aizen vs. Itachi (spoilers)

    I only have one question: Can the mangekyou see through the ultimate gengitsu of absolute hypnosis?
     
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  2. zingymaster zingy

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    itachi would pwn azien bad.
     
  3. UltraSynaptic SeizureNinja Seizure Master

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    Aizen would be a smouldering, charred corpse by the time Itachi got through with him.

    Then again, the individuals in Bleach so far out power those of Naruto...so it's really a toss up.
     
  4. Brandt And Beyond

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    Aizen and his abosolute hypnosis would probably own Itachi. Besides, Aizen + shyunpo (sp?), instant step, also owns.
     
  5. RaitoRyuukashin Banned

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    Aizen: Kukuku ..WTF - dies burning

    Itachi: That level of illusion won't work on me

    kk gg Itachi wins ... I think Aizen would suck if he didnt have those hypnosis techniques...then the sharingan Can reverse genjutsu.
     
  6. vegitabo Death Bringer

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    definately aizen b/c those under his hypnosis doesn't even know that they are under it and all it takes is a glance... and it controls all five senses which includes the eyes, so Itachi will get pwned easily unless he catches Aizen off guard...
     
  7. Code Zoamelgustar

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    Well Itachi has no chance in hell to even pull of an attack before he has a sword thorugh him...

    I really don't see a way for Itachi to win... so yeah Aizen owns Itachi without any effort whatsoever.
     
  8. zingymaster zingy

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    itachi pwns azien in 1, just one move, he'll probably copy and move azien can dig up.
     
  9. Code Zoamelgustar

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    He can't copy any fo Aizen's moves... unless he steals his sword.

    Itachi would fall under Aizen's hypnosis without realizing it, it's extremely high level, Itachi himself said "something of that level can't defeat me" meaning that illusions woudl affect him. But either way the sharingna sees through illusions by chakra and such. And well Aizen's hypnosis doesn't have any underlying thing, basically affects the mind itself. No way Itachi is getting out of it.
    Spoiler:
    If something like Ichigo's ban kai that is many times faster than Itachi(most likely) was easily put under it without an hint of any realiziation. Itachi doesn't stand a chance.


    He'd probably make Kyuubi run off a cliff... or better yet do his Kirouhitsugi...
     
  10. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    Itachi could copy the black coffin, theoretically...and there is no way that you can accurately compare speed b/w bleach and naruto characters. To just assume that shyunpo (sp) is superior to shunshin (sp) is either biased or ignorant. I agree that itachi couldn't copy the hypnosis move, but the demon arts? pffft...child's play to steal with a mangekyou. I am personally of the opinion that aizen trusts too much in his hypnosis technique (which I think will be his eventual downfall) and that the mangekyou is the master of all illusion and so would not be fooled by any genjitsu short of another mangekyou's tsukiyomi. I just think that bleach characters are overrated in comparison with naruto characters. I said in the itachi/tousen thread that I think the only char from bleach who could pwn itachi is kenpachi.

    *shunshin is not yondaime's hiarashi (sp) which is the space-time teleportation jutsu {which owns shyunpo in my mind, btw}, it's the poof and reappear one we see jounins doing all the time, and gaara did it using his sand.*
     
  11. raoul2000 Black Swordsman

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    Bleach's strongest characters are stronger than Naruto's strongest characters (except Kyuubi and company), thus Aizen would simply destroy Itachi in like no time at all.
     
  12. Code Zoamelgustar

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    Do we know what the demon arts require? No. THey don't require chakra, as I doubt that they are just pure chakra in spirit world. Or are they? We don't even know if they use thier spiritual energy but someone like Aizen even has time doing ones in the90s, so if it does require spiritual energy, does that mean that Itachi would be completely drained if he tried to do them? And not even complete it?

    Mangekyo isn't hte 'master of illusions' it just can see through those chakra created illusion because the characteristic of the sharingan is its ability to see chakra. Aizen's hynposis affects the mind. There's probably nothing behind, just that once you see it, you fall under it. Meaning that its probably beyond any resisting, beyond that of the mange as we see extremely strong willed people completely fooled, even without realizing it.

    Do we know that Aizen relies too much on his illusion? Like when he stopped Ichigo's move, the ilusion was that he seemed much further away, yet he still stopped it with 1 finger that was a full rush. Was that an illusion? Or was it not? Same thing against the wolf guy? He did block it and then do the hadou 90?

    He also took everyone down in 1 hit, which was no illusion. So I doubt Itachi can even last 1 hit, I also believe he will fall under the illusion.
     
  13. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    he hypnotizes your your mind through your senses, imo, so the sharingan can see through it. tousen not affected by it because he can't see, itachi not affected cause he can see throug it :wink

    do the demon arts use spirit energy? yes. that why rukia couldn't use the arts on the hollow trying to get the parakeet. cause her energy hadn't recovered.

    I will agree that he has impressive blocking skills, but perhaps he was using the illusion to make them think he blocked it, we don't know for sure.

    as far as him not having the chakra to complete the moves...that is just baseless conjecture.
     
  14. Code Zoamelgustar

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    The sharingan can't see through everything. Itachi can see through it? Against what if there's nothing behind it? You simply see it and you're under the hynposis. There are been no mention of being able to break it. So a mangekyo sharingan didn't work on Kakashi?

    Spiritual energy = chakra? All demon arts are the same?

    If it taeks someone of the skill of Aizen difficulty to even attempt it, we do not know if Itachi will have enough chakra.
     
  15. theoneandonly is back to his origin

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    A close one...but Itachi will prevail in the end
     
  16. whoandy New Member

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    Itachi can not copy demon arts, its not a technique in like naruto where there are hand signs, its a chant, but im sure you guys might argue itachi then can mimic the chant. Well, Aizen didn't have to chant to perform the black coffin. Even if it is only 1/3 of the strength, it is still quite deadly. Aizen's hypnosis also toys with your senses, genjutsu is more one dimensional where it is more a trickery of the eye. Also, can't one perform counter genjutsu? But then again, Itachi's genjutsu is no pushover...

    Edit: I think genjutsu and hypnosis are not the same thing as many of you think they are. There is a thin line (well not really but) between hypnosis and illusions, go check dictionary.com if you don't believe me, it's different. :smile-big
     
  17. Aburame Shino2 Shino-Kun

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    Itachi pwns so he will pwn him!
     
  18. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    'do not know' is the key part of that statement. it is ridiculous to make implications towards something you have no knowledge of or logical reasoning for one way or another. and yes, for the sake of a battle debate, to keep things relative, chakra=spiritual energy.

    and you answered yourself whether or not he could see through it, (the debate is if the mangekyou is of high enough level to see through the hypnosis) it involves his sight. it hypnotizes him through his sight. sharingan is sight beyond normal. It has nothing to do with him dispelling the illusion, simply with it not being able to hypotize him because the sharingan would not be affected by something that uses his sight against him. you are trying to argue that in principl his hypnosis is not like genjitsu but I can see no clearly defining differences. If you simply think that that the hypnosis is a higher level genjitsu than Itachi can dispel, say that. Don't assume that aizen is more skilled than itachi (in other areas, such as stamina) without being able to back it up or at least being able to provide some sort of (logical) relative comparison. There are descrepencies that have to be generalized to keep a battle relative, things such as the fact that demon arts are used with chants and jutsus with hand seals, but in a battle where the characters come from seperate universes things must be made relative to one another for there to be any sort of comparison.

    and imo, genjitsu is not one dimensional, there have been others, such as tayuya's genjitsu. And that is besides the point, aizen's uses your sight to begin the hypnotization, else tousen would be vulnerable to it. It has to be able to conquer all of your senses, and someone like Itachi, or I'd even say neji would be able to completely see through an illusion like that (I'm not saying neji would win, that is another discussion for somewhere else, I'm just saying their sight is made to deal with the bag that aizen uses.). The whole 'it's not the same kind of illusion' is pointless blather in this case because again, for it to have relevance, things must be kept relative in the debate.
     
  19. vlad43210 dark chakra fuzzball

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    This is a good match, actually. I see it as a fight between who reads whose illusions better. So far we haven't seen Aizen's illusions actually fail on anybody who's been able to see (unless it happened in the most recent chapter, which I haven't read yet:(); but we also haven't seen Itachi's illusions actually fail on anybody who's looked into his eyes. Until we see one of them fail, possibly in the upcoming chapters, I'm going to reserve judgement on this battle...

    ...aw heck, I'll vote Itachi. He's got cool eyes!

    EDIT: Itachi, I'm not so sure that the Sharingan+Byakugan automatically see through hypnosis. True, Aizen's hypnosis works through sight, but are we to assume that Sharingan / Byakugan are so different from normal sight that said hypnosis doesn't apply to them? Or am I understanding you incorrectly?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2005
  20. vegitabo Death Bringer

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    how can neji see hypnosis in a sword? Once he sees it, he in hypnosis already. Aizen's hypnosis isn't just some illusion. Its CONTROLS all your senses and even if itachi sees through it, he won't be able to do anything b/c he's already under the influence. Its like on drugs, you are still on drugs even if you realize that you are taking drugs. So Aizen wins be a long shot. And Aizen doesn't need to use his eyes like Itachi to use he's powers. All he needs is his sword...
     
  21. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    the sword creates the gengitsu, it's not like somehow it is completely different than any other genjitsu we have seen up to this point. It is this argument that baffles me the most. Once you are in a genjitsu, whether it is created through sight, or if you are engaged in it by hearing as it was with tayuya's, it controls your senses. I don't understand how you can logically say that aizen's illusion is not the same. It makes you see, hear, smell, and feel what he wants you too. It is genjitsu in principal. This is not a question, it is a fact reached through logical reasoning. The question of whether or not it (since I do believe it to be an extremely high level of genjitsu) is a higher level than the mangekyou can handle is what this is about. NOT whether or not it is some kind of other technique. Make another thread if you desire to argue (without providing any reasoning for it, I might add :notrust) over if the hypnosis falls into the category of genjitsu. For the purposes of this thread the hypnosis IS genjitsu. Keep that in mind when you post your opinion from now on please.
     
  22. Code Zoamelgustar

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    The genjutsu is usualy chakra working through it or something. It isn't really hypnosis. As someone mentioned, how can he see through a sword? It hypnotises it in an unknown way, you see it you are under the spell... The sharingan doesn't see "through" things so they will see the sword going into Shikai mode(we don't even know his ban kai yet if he has any) so they will fall under the hypnosis. That is the nature of the weapon, it isn't any 'technique' and I doubt it uses spiritual power unless soul cutters contain spiritual power. It's simply say how it works. You see it, regardless of what you see around it, you fall under the hynposis. Genjutsu, you use chakra to attack teh senses(attacking with the chakra or whatever) and make an 'illusion' with the chakra. Sharingna being able to see chakra, is how it see through genjutsu(Sasuke saw Oboro's genjuts that way, Obito saw the rock ninjas genjtusu that way).

    So no, Aizen's hynposis works in a different way and the sharingan doesn't have anything said to bypass that.

    Sharingan can't also see through everything.... Last time I checked... Kakashi was affected by the Tsukiyomi...same with Sasuke...
     
  23. B-playa hand-to-hand combat OWNZ

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    ok dont hate because of this.. ive only seen 104 naruto episodes and i dont think ive heard of and aizen... itachi is really fucking strong.. mind explaining to me whos aizen?
     
  24. zingymaster zingy

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    itachi could see through it. he probably could dispell it . once aizen looks into itachi's eyes its all over
     
  25. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    you SEE it and it affects your mind...You aren't even presenting an argument. Uses a sword, uses hand seals, uses chants...or did we forget about my little speil on relativity earlier? It does the same thing and follows the same basic principals, and so being that they are from different and not directly comparable universes the small descrepencies are generalized. C'mon, this should be basics by now. And imo, sharingan can see through everything we have seen up to now, unless it is overpowered by sharingan of a higher level. ie, the mangekyou. I can respect the opinion that aizen's hypnosis is higher level than the mangekyou can handle, that is why I started the thread. I have no desire to debate on the minute differences and technicalities of technique in alternate universes since the simply don't compare.

    and b-playa, aizen is a rouge captain of the 5th (I believe) squad of shinigami from the series 'Bleach'. the manga is excellent, you should check it out.
     
  26. Code Zoamelgustar

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    Oh? The sharingan sees through everything even though Kakashi got caught and Sasuke too? Oh(well was going to say how he wpied out the Uchiha lcan but we don't know what he used)... Oh, I thought every single time we saw the sharingan dispel genjutsu through 1st person perspective, from both Obito and Sasuke we saw their chakra as in that was the key thing. Itachi also asid that a 'certain level' of genjtsu won't work on him, and what was that attack? only B-rank? He didn't say all genjutsu doesn't work on him.

    It doesn't matter if Aizen's hypnosis is of a higher level. It's different. Aizen's hypnosis isn't any technique. It's the nature of the sword, there's no chakra to see through, once you see the Shikai release, then your mind is affected.
     
  27. pnoypridz Member

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    Itachi imo would win cuase he's sharingan can dispel

    or Itachis blind and cant see the sword >.< =P
     
  28. Lucero del Alba <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    okay, your conversation is no longer relevant on this topic, sorry. It seems that you completely ignored everything I said about generalizing descrepancies to keep things relative in alternate reality battles. You half agreed with my point and then contradicted yourself. He did say that level of genjitsu. You can assume that there is a level that can effect him if you wish. You can be of the opinion that aizen's is of that level. However, whether or not his hypnosis is genjitsu, once again, is NOT up for debate in this particular thread. Do that somewhere else please. Relativity, my friend. Keep that in mind.

    And the one genjitsu that bypassed the sharingan, imo, was a higher level sharingan technique...
     
  29. Rurouni Mushishi

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    I agree with all the pro-Aizen statements, and'll say that he wins. Aizen > Itachi
     
  30. Code Zoamelgustar

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    It seems that you are 'wrong' and I've stated things that are 'true' in regards to how genjutsu is not the same way as the hypnosis and how the sharingan works from the knowledge we know of. You assume things of the sharingan, like it can see through all(even though it was proven wrong) and it doesn't matter what type of illusion(even though hynposis isn't neccessarily illusion all the time and how we know how it works) then you assume that the hypnsosis is like a genjutsu(which is not) so yeah I think it's futlile to argue with someone biased or at least accepts generalities in regards to the sharingans 'omnipotency' and puts the hypnosis in a category that it is not in just becuase that's the only way for the sharingan to see through it. I never contradicted myself, maybe in your sharingan-effected mind.
     
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