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Itachi vs. Kakashi (no MS)

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Krippy, May 7, 2012.

Itachi vs. Kakashi (no MS)

  1. Itachi soloes.:blinditachi

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  2. The copy ninja takes this.:ninja

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  3. Too close to call.

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  4. xKantStopx, you're the shizznit. :pimp

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  5. dafuq is this?

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  1. ki0 Active Member

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    IMO Itachi has the advantage. Kakashi may have experience fighting Itachi, but that goes both ways. Itachi knows how Kakashi fights. In CQC Kakashi does have Raikiri, but I doubt it would be of much use.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  2. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    I'm not sure whether to be offended or take it as a compliment that you started a thread on quote I made. However, I stand by my statement in that thread and what Yoko/ImSerious stated in their respective first posts.

    But to reiterate:

    Kakashi has an advantage when it comes to ninjutsu, kinjutsu and has better strategies/tactician feats. Furthermore, unlike Itachi, Kakashi has multiple methods to kill his opponent, Itachi lacks actual killing moves in his base arsenal. Furthermore, Kakashi was able to trick him before, he'll trick him again. It's only a matter of time.

    Itachi has no counters for any of Kakashi's lightning based ninjutsu and that's largely what this battle will amount to. Itachi's genjutsu isn't going to a potent factor as Kakashi is more than likely skilled enough to break it (given his sharingan and genjutsu rating). If it comes to a battle of weapons, Kakashi's raiton-channeling gives him the upper hand.

    Itachi doesn't stand a chance, Kakashi takes this with moderate difficulty (if at all).
     
  3. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    What is itachi without sharingan???

    Haku.
     
  4. Yoko Grey Warden

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    To those emphasizing that Kakashi only managed to stale-mate base Itachi because it was a Shoten clone, keep in mind that Kakashi was also using a Bunshin. At the end of the day, their respective clones ended up in a physical deadlock; not the real Kakashi vs. a clone, but a clone vs. a clone.
     
  5. Nikushimi Savior

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    Itachi wins due to having a combination of superior speed, greater eye power, and better tolerance for using Sharingan.
     
  6. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    Speed is a non-issue and they both have the same eye power. Itachi maybe more resistant to the effects of the sharingan but Kakashi hasn't mentioned fatigue due to base sharingan since Part 1. I don't think it's much of an issue.
     
  7. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    ...this isn't Part I anymore my friend. Kakashi's tolerance for the Sharingan has gone up HUGELY, their speed is about equal too.
     
  8. Nikushimi Savior

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    I don't think speed is a non-issue at all; in fact, it's one of the most important qualities for deciding a fight. Itachi can weave signs at speeds even Kakashi's Sharingan can't track, which gives him an advantage if he chooses to make use of it.

    I also wouldn't say that they have the same eye power, because Itachi- being a true heir to the Sharingan -is obviously the superior of the two and has demonstrated this pretty profoundly up until now.

    Kakashi does seem to have become more accustomed to using it, but we haven't seen him in a protracted fight throughout all of Shippuuden (unless you count his off-panel "rampage", during which he had the support of an entire division).
     
  9. Nikushimi Savior

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    The problem is that Itachi never had any issues with Sharingan to begin with; he's naturally suited for it, being an Uchiha.

    "About" isn't good enough; there's still a difference there.
     
  10. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    And Kakashi doesn't have any issues with it anymore considering he has had it on indefinitely for two days.


    Kakashi can hang with Itachi. We seen it during their physical confrontation at the beginning of Part II. And Kakashi even was able to surprise Tobi with his speed, can the same be said about Itachi?
     
  11. Kanki KIG

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    The sharingan stuff is true (though Kakashi's improvement with the sharingan will mean it won't be the same as P1), however there still will be a difference, even if it's small. It's the type of thing that might come into play if the fight is extremely close.

    A key factor will be the genjutsu vs ninjutsu, i.e who can dictate the fight. Kakashi will probably go in with a clone like he did the last time they fought. If that happens and Kakashi can avoid the genjutsu (the way fights progress with Itachi, he rarely goes back to genjutsu once it's been avoided) then Kakashi's superior ninjutsu will come into effect, especially as he has the elemental advantage. Raiton/Suiton > Suiton/Kaiton.

    Regarding intelligence, there's different forms of it. Kakashi has shown better strategy than Itachi, who in turn has shown better awareness than Kakashi.
     
  12. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    Overestimated as usual. Handseal speed Kakashi can't keep up with? Lies.

    Blocked and did the same thing as Itachi.

    Oh and note that when Itachi used Tsukiyomi, Kakashi was at less than 25% chakra. Funny huh.
    And here Kakashi keeps up again.

    And creates a bunshin and attacks Itachi as seen in the bottom-left corner. Kakashi can keep up with Itachi and get the better of him.

    Itachi isn't going to blitz Kakashi, or overpower him in a taijutsu fight.

    The sharingan means shit when Kakashi has been fighting for 2 days.
     
  13. Nikushimi Savior

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    We have only seen Kakashi once or twice during those two days; just because he happened to have Sharingan on then doesn't mean he had it on continuously the entire time.

    The vast majority of those two days happened off-panel with no way of knowing what transpired.

    You mean nerfed Shouten Itachi fighting at 30% of the original's strength and speed. Yeah.

    Tobi was never surprised by Kakashi's speed. He complemented Kakashi's speed, but that's completely different from being surprised by it.

    It's a moot point anyway since we know Itachi is faster.
     
  14. Nikushimi Savior

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    Kakashi himself stated he didn't see the seals; it was pure coincidence that he pulled off a clone feint, because his clone didn't notice Itachi's clone until it stabbed him.

    Where'd you get the 25% from? All I can tell from the manga is that Kakashi was tired.

    That was Shouten Itachi, fighting at 30% of the original's power.

    I didn't say he would do either of those things.

    But he has advantages over Kakashi that can't very well be ignored.

    We barely saw any of what happened during those two days.
     
  15. Kanki KIG

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    Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu at the same time for a decent period of time and showed no signs of fatigue. Likewise we know he's been fighting in this war for an extended period.

    His energy levels with the sharingan are of no issue anymore. However I agree that Itachi does and will always have an edge when it comes to the mastery of it, even if the difference is minimal. He'll be able to read Kakashi's movements a fraction before Kakashi reads his.
     
  16. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Kakashi was fighting CONSTANTLY during those two days.


    The only 'nerfing' was that Itachi couldn't use the Mangekyo Sharingan. He could use ALL of Itachi's other abilities, was just limited by the AMOUNT OF CHAKRA he had. It isn't a '30% Itachi', it was a 'Itachi with 30% chakra'.


    Itachi's feats do not support that. Kakashi got Tobi's back and he complimented him. Has Itachi ever done anything similar?
     
  17. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    He used a jutsu, Itachi used a jutsu. Itachi used a clone, Kakashi used a clone. The same things basically in the same time.
    He used 2 clones. Clones take half your chakra so 100/2=50/2=25% then he used 2 suitons so it was less than 25%.

    30% chakra. His speed isn't affected. He used a jutsu, Kakashi used a jutsu and created a bunshin and attacked Itachi. They are almost the same.

    Sorry, I thought that you were implying it. His advantages are little to nothing. It is a small gap.

    Look at what he did against Kakuza and Hidan. He used a lot of chakra and still went on.
     
  18. Nikushimi Savior

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    Even if the strain from using it has diminished, I don't think it's something that has gone away completely; the problem arose in the first place because Kakashi's body is genetically inadequate for Sharingan, so unless he went and borrowed Kabuto's people-juicer, he should still experience some rebound from exerting himself with it.

    How do you know? Were you there?

    That's not what Kisame said; he stated that the strength and the available Jutsu were both limited for the Shouten replicas proportional to the chakra allocated to them:



    There's even a very obvious difference in the scale of their Jutsu:





    Itachi danced around Hebi Sasuke with a hole in his leg while suffering from Tsukuyomi rebound and could keep up evenly with KCM Naruto. His feats absolutely support it, but that's immaterial, because the databooks lay it out in hard numbers.

    No, but that's purely incidental; we never saw Itachi and Tobi fight.

    The problem is that Kakashi's clone was a Mizu Bunshin, not a Kage Bunshin, and we have no way of knowing what percentage of his chakra he used for those other Jutsu.

    Kisame directly stated that the amount of chakra determined the strength of the replicas.

    A small gap is still a gap; as long as Itachi uses those advantages in conjunction with his superior eye power, he should win.

    That's true, but that fight didn't last very long either. All Kakashi really demonstrated was increased chakra capacity, not Sharingan tolerance.
     
  19. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    Mizu bunshin takes the same amount as the original. He isn't said to take less in the databook.

    Those jutsu's still affect him no matter how little.

    Chakra wise yes, but I don't see how handseal speed is affected.

    Kakashi has the better jutsu set giving him a major advantage. Raitons, suiton, and summonings. This makes up for it and wins it for Kakashi.
     
  20. raizen28 I dunno

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    Kakashi is very fast. didnt When he intercepted Tobi to save Naruto, Gai I believe had a Gate activated too, which means he matched a Gated speed despite Fighting for more than a Day albeit against the 7 swordsmen in a War?


    then still could hold off Bijuu
     
  21. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    Speed is a non-issue at this point because I believe Kakashi has improved enough to be ranked in the same category as Itachi. Itachi with a full tier advantage against Kakashi (w/sharingan) [Part 1] was able to respond to him, despite being slower.

    Well, it comes down to feats and without MS, that true-heir stuff doesn't really mean anything. And Kakashi has more lethal ninjutsu than he does, thus I see Kakashi having the advantage (especially considering his clone feints).
    The author hasn't touched base on it yet and his usage of his ninjutsu so recklessly leads me to believe he's probably managed to make his stamina grow and at the same time asserted more of a control. I'd say a little of both, but I don't think he has a flat 3.0 in stamina anymore. He's definitely pushing a 3.5 or 4.
    Not only that but he surprised Tobi who stated "Wow, that was fast" when Yamato ambushed him with the wood. That's a perfect example of what would happen to Itachi, once a clone was able to attract Itachi's full attention.
     
  22. ki0 Active Member

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    How would Kakashi trick Itachi?
     
  23. narutoish Member

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    Yeah this war arc has messed up all the chakra levels as we saw itachi spamming susanoo and amertersu without fatigue. But you are right, as far as we have been shown, Kakashi had his sharingan activated
    I never said they do. All I said was that he can use exploding clones as offense and crow clones as distractions(which as I mentioned take less chakra)

    First of all kinjutsu doesn't matter since Kakashi doesn't have a sword, but as for ninja tools itachi has shown to be better at them.

    And how is Kakashi going to trick itachi again? :wink Wouldn't itachi know about it this time.
    Has Kakashi even shown to channel his ration through weapons?
     
  24. Krippy Active Member

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    You should feel honored. :LOS But I like the points that everyone is bringing up. :nod
     
  25. King Itachi ^/_\^

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    Although Itachi will win, it will certainly not be with ease; many underestimate Kakashi's skill and versatility.
     
  26. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    Distractions won't matter as it won't kill his clone and he will be making Itachi waste chakra.

    Knowing something is going to happen doesn't mean you can stop it, plus he don't know about RKB.

    Yes, he channeled raiton through Zabuza's sword to cut the fat swordsmen in half.
     
  27. raizen28 I dunno

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    how wouldnt he trick Itachi? he even tricked Pain who has linked vision of the rinnegan
     
  28. ImSerious Active Member

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    Go read the Kakashi vs Itachi fight.
     
  29. ki0 Active Member

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    i did, but that won't work on Itachi. He already know Kakashi
    s tricks
     
  30. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    RKB my friend. Itachi has no knowledge on it.
     

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