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Jean Chretien says rise of Donald Trump heralds end of the American empire

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Catalyst75, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    OTTAWA — Jean Chretien says Donald Trump is “unspeakable” and his rise to the U.S. presidency heralds the decline of the American empire.

    Chretien unleashes that unflattering opinion of Trump in a new book of anecdotes from his 10 years as Canada’s prime minister.

    Although it’s entitled “My Stories, My Times,” Chretien, who retired from politics in 2003 after winning three majority mandates, does not shy away from opining on current events — most notably on Trump.

    In the preface, Chretien says writing the book over the past year helped him recover his serenity when he got “tired of observing the surrealist vagaries of President Trump and of listening to his nonsense.”

    “It’s been very sad to observe the monumental error our neighbours to the south made in November 2016,” he writes in a later chapter, in which he recounts happy times he and his wife, Aline, have spent with former U.S. president Bill Clinton and his wife, Hillary, who was defeated by Trump.

    “I fear that Hillary’s defeat, and the arrival of the fanatical Trump, mark the true end of the American Empire. You can understand why Aline and I are so happy to have the Clintons as friends, and almost as proud to be removed as far as possible from the unspeakable Donald Trump.”

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau — aware that it doesn’t take much to set off the mercurial president, who is not above threatening to wreak economic “ruination” on Canada — has always been very guarded in speaking about Trump. But Chretien, now 84 and still active as a lawyer with Dentons, is not so constrained.

    In an interview about his new book, Chretien elaborated on his view that the American empire is on the decline.

    “You know, you see the emergence of the Chinese and the decline of America,” he told The Canadian Press.

    “When I’m travelling the world, I feel that their influence is going down very rapidly.”

    Chretien said the protectionist, America-first Trump administration is trying to break the international order “that has created prosperity around the world since the (1940s)” and is causing concern among traditional allies as the U.S. withdraws from the Iran denuclearization agreement, among other international pacts.

    “If you want to be in isolation, that’s fine. But you have less influence.”

    The rise and eventual fall of superpowers is natural and inevitable, Chretien added.

    “You know, empires disappear. A lot of people are nostalgic about the British empire. A lot of people in France still dream of Napoleon; he’s dead since a long time. Life is like that.”

    Chretien also weighed in on the renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Trump has renamed the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement. The 14 months of tortuous negotiations and repeated threats by Trump to rip up NAFTA and impose ruinous auto tariffs on Canada turned out to be “a lot of talk for nothing,” he said.

    “He changed the name and not much else,” Chretien said, adding that the NAFTA partners made “a little bit of an adjustment but basically we still have a free trade agreement with them that will work about the same way that it was working before.”

    In the book, Chretien says last year’s white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., “exposed to us the true face of Donald Trump.”

    The rally was staged ostensibly to protest the removal of Confederate symbols but white nationalists and other far-right extremists chanted racist and anti-Semitic slogans and carried guns and Nazi symbols. Violent clashes with counter-protesters erupted, leaving one woman dead.

    Trump refused to explicitly denounce the white supremacists, choosing instead to condemn hatred and bigotry “on many sides” and claiming that there were “very fine people on both sides” of the clashes.

    While Chretien writes that no country is immune to “backsliding where social values are concerned” and Canada must remain vigilant, he said in the interview that Canada has avoided the kind of polarization plaguing the U.S. because “we have much better institutions.”

    For example, he pointed to the heavily politicized appointment process for judges in the U.S., where the recent confirmation of Trump Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh became a circus amid accusations of sexual misconduct when he was a teenager. The judicial system in Canada has remained largely untouched by politicization.

    “I never knew if the chief justice voted for me and I never asked her,” Chretien said, referring Beverley McLachlin whom he named chief justice of the Supreme Court of Canada in 2000. She retired last December.

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  2. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

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    Wouldnt it mark the end of the Republic and the start of the Empire though?

    More than the decline of the US, I see a guy with authoritarian tendencies completely making the SCOTUS subservient to right wing politics and eroding the democratic institutions.

    I dont think it will be Trump, but I think Trump's doing is paving the way for an eventual dictator to rise. You just need a more extreme right wing president passing laws that virtually take the vote away from minorities, have the SCOTUS declare it constitutional and make the US a one party state.

    This doesnt necessarily mean the decline of the US's power, as much as it means the decline of democracy.
     
  3. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    15th century - Portuguese century
    16th century - Spanish century
    17th century - Dutch century
    18th century - French century
    19th century - British century
    20th century - American century

    21st century - Chinese century? Indian century?
     
  4. Drake WORK MAKES YOU FREE

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    Sounds like he is just sore that the political dynasty of his friends was defeated.

    Yeah... Even if that were true, with all the recent news about China, I don't think he should be so happy about that.

    Not even true, really.
     
  5. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    It looks to be true.

    Even if Trump were impeached two hours from now the damage is done. The world isn’t going to let a country that could vote in an utter idiot be in charge.

    They’re finding ways to work together without the US at the table
     
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  6. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    That depends on whether or not the Republicans continue the trend towards national socialistic, isolationist tendencies that is going on right now. The 'end of the American empire" Chretien is referring to is, most likely, America's influence across the globe. It is rather clear that the "America First" policy has diminished the global influence of the US considerably, and has been isolating allies while the POTUS talks up and wants to be buddies with dictators.

    The end result, as Cardboard Tube Knight said, will be the rest of the world finding a way to work together without the United States' involvement. After all, Trump just showed you can't trust a country whose politics is so divided and broken that one President can just overturn and tear down decades of goodwill and decades of agreements made by past Presidents.
     
  7. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

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    Its not like a one party, soon to be one man dictatorship, is any better.

    The US might retain the spot for the simple reason that the alternative (China) is worse.

    I mean who else could fill in the shoes?

    Germany? :lmao
     
  8. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    I think the EU might just strike out for itself. The US will probably coast on top for another decade unless something big happens elsewhere
     
  9. Kafuka Fuura 仮面の告白

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    Start of the American Century of Humiliation.
     
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  10. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

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    Where are the Soviets?
     
  11. Kitsune `★.。・:*:・ Super Moderator

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    Can you go back further with this list? Globalization wasn’t the same but it’s fun to think about.
     
  12. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    The Soviets never became the #1 economic, military, or cultural power. They were always #2.

    So I'm retroactively giving the Cold War to America.
     
  13. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    That was basically a list of who had naval hegemony and thereby controlled trade between continents. Prior to the Age of Discovery that's not really an applicable measure since most transportation was done by land.

    So then you'd probably have to look at who had hegemony over the Silk Road and controlled communication between the East and West.

    The 13th century is definitely the Mongolian Century. Don't really know about 14th.

    For 12th maybe Arab (Abbasid).
     
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  14. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Germany EU
     
  15. Alwaysmind 总是心神

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  16. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    But generally prior to the Portuguese linking Europe with Africa, the Americas, and Asia, the world was much more polycentric.

    E.g. the Han dynasty and Roman Empire were hegemons of respectively the East and the West at the same time without being in direct competition with each other.

    If you must appoint a winner I guess you can say the golden age of the Han was like one century earlier than the golden age of Rome, but neither of them would have known about what "age" the other was in.
     
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  17. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff

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    You guys are high as fuck.

    Every century will be the American century so long as the US continues to brain drain the rest of the world by being the center of global economic and scientific power. It is a virtuous cycle that only a nuclear war could really stop. US gets 1 million legal immigrants every year, 500,000 of which are college educated. Here's the top 10 list of countries with foreign-born legal residents/citizens.

    Unpacking this list:
    Immigrants to America are mostly all permanent residents. We have no free travel treaties with anyone and there's no easy way to walk into the US. The 11 million or so illegal immigrants are not included in this number.

    Immigrants to Russia are mostly Mongolians who don't have anywhere else to go. Immigrants to Germany are mostly Arabs who don't have anywhere else to go and Europeans who've taken advantage of the Schengen zone. Saudi immigrants are all slaves. Same with the UAE.

    UK immigrants are about half real, mostly Indian, and half Schengens. France is Schengens and Tunisians.

    Canada's immigrant numbers are 100% real. They're the other place everyone in the world wants to go. Same with Australia. Spain is Arabs and Schengens.

    China isn't on the list, but of the 1 million immigrants the US gets yearly? The largest group is Chinese. .
     
  18. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff

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    Oh and by the way, we're gonna dominate the solar system too. In the next 10 years the US will have regular flights to colonies on Mars and the Moon.

    The chinese plan to do apollo-style landings on the moon and Mars...

    in 2040.

    Enjoy paying SpaceX for rides to your colonies.
     
  19. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Setting aside the random "Solar System Domination" nonsense since its nothing except some speculation with maybe paired wishful thinking, there are some interesting points worth to look at.

    I would like to read more about the 50% ratio of legal migrants for each year having a college grade / academic level for the US.

    Is there something available
     
  20. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff

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  21. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. Then I maybe have misinterpreted what you were trying to say. In your post, it sounds like each year 50% of the people who migrate to the US have in fact a college degree of some sort already, which striked me as very odd, also due to the sheer amount of migration (1 Million, more than double what arrive in the EU) mentioned.

    But you mean that from all the people who already have migrated, that more people will get a degree actually, is that correct?

    This would go along what I found here, an article and study published from just 3 weeks ago:



    But in both cases its not about migrants already having degrees but about receiving them after their legal status has been settled (and apparently are as likely to get a degree than native american borns).

    Thanks for the clear up.
     
  22. Alwaysmind 总是心神

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    That figure is wrong. It should be 45,785,089 because I live in Canadia now.
     
  23. Onomatopoeia In a word: Brilliant

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  24. Kitsune `★.。・:*:・ Super Moderator

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    That’s why people want to protect this trend. There’s been a lot of rhetoric against immigration, scientific discovery and education. It’s hard to say how long it takes to see a rhetorical shift show itself in terms of progress but it’s not a good trajectory. If taking the best the world has to offer is our greatest strength then we need to acknowledge that and stop fearmongerong about the rest of the world. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
     
  25. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff

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    I don't think there is. Literally nobody has raised any issues with legal immigration and the numbers have not decreased. Becoming a legal US resident/citizen is a multi-year process that nobody is going to put the brakes on because CNN told them Trump only likes white people.
     
  26. Killmonger NPC13211

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    @mr_shadow you should delete this thread, it's nothing but a trump bash thread. more of your bias yet again. :apathy
     
  27. Kitsune `★.。・:*:・ Super Moderator

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    I admit it’s not entirely quantifiable, but if the US gets a reputation (fair or not) for being hostile to outsiders it might be less attractive to brilliant people who could go anywhere in the world. I’m just saying we need to stay welcoming and attractive to outside brilliance.
     
  28. the_notorious_Z.É. The Pirate Prime minister

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    The Portuguese century was also the 16th century, during the 15th century we were just exploring the cost of Africa, mapping ocean routes and perfecting naval technology, we only took over the global spice trade in the 1500s.
     
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  29. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff

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    There isn't really anywhere else to go that has an even remotely equivalent standard of living besides Canada which is so culturally and economically tied to the US it might as well be the US, and if you wanna do science, it's the US or the US. 17 of the top 20 world universities. Canada has zero. Everything exciting that's happening with science and technology is happening in the US.

    I get what you're saying but I disagree categorically that enforcing border laws is being unwelcoming to outsiders and if anyone actually believes that they're welcome to go to Norway or Japan and see what being unwelcoming really is.
     
  30. Kitsune `★.。・:*:・ Super Moderator

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    I guess I'm talking more about the kind of statements the US puts out, either officially or unofficially. We need to sound like we'd treat foreigners with basic human respect. I'm sure nobody would have a problem with an immigrant astrophysicist coming here and doing research of some sort, but if our leadership calls that person's homeland a "shit-hole" or something they might end up going to Japan. Japan is absolutely going to be more hostile to outsiders, albeit in a subtle way that slowly rejects them over time, but Japan's surface rhetoric is more respectful. I hope the US can keep our language in line with our supposed values, because there is a lot to gain by coming here.
     
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