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Jiren vs FT Arc Vegito Blue.

Discussion in 'DB Battledome' started by Extravlad, Sep 12, 2018 at 7:50 AM.

  1. PlainWarrior Well-Known Member

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    Episode 122 and 123 were both used to show how strong Jiren was and nothing else.

    There was no sign of weakness at all there. They did not do any of that until episode 127 with 17.

    And this here will always be true from now on


     
  2. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    Vados said potara fusion is tens of times more powerful, how much do you think it's more powerful than > x20 Kaioken ? It can't be x100, that's what we know.

    Beerus said the compatibility between the two individuals is a factor in fusion, such as 17 and 18. Thus, Kefla is potentially a better fusion than Vegito, because of Kale's and Caufila's better compatibility.

    LSSJ isn't the only reason why Kefla was more powerful, it's also because of their perfect combination. Vegito is a halfhearted combination due to Vegeta's personality and his rivalry with Goku, and Goku also doesn't want to merge with someone unless it's necessary, Kale and Caufila have no problems like these, thus they are a better fusion than Vegeta and Goku.
     
  3. MShadows Deathbat

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    Kefla apologists

    :confusedjr

    Logic, power scaling and facts prove you wrong...
     
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  4. CaptainCommanderRenji Well-Known Member

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    Again with the calcs. This is Dragonball. Stop thinking with numbers because they won't add up. Even Z didn't pay any attention to multipliers and Super even less. Non canon multipliers from 30 years mean nothing. You are assuming they have those multipliers in mind when they write this and they don't.
    Even if Kefla is stronger than Vegetto, which I don't think she is there would be plenty of good explanations for this:
    Their multipliers is bigger
    Fusion brings out more of Kale's hidden potential
    LSSJ + SSJ2 ( Don't tell me she wasn't using this, she was green and buff. Can't change my mind guys. :D )
     
  5. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    LSSJ + Kale's and Caufila's perfect compatibility made it more powerful. Even Champa said Kefla was more powerful than he assumed that she would.


    ...yup


     
  6. Juub Well-Known Member

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    I know you don't think she is but there's not a shred of evidence supporting any of this. Like it or not Kaioken being 20x and SSJ being 50x are canon and mentioned directly/indirectly in the source material. So they do count for something.

    Because fucking Champa is an authority now. Dude couldn't even tell why Caulifla was getting her ass handed to her by Goku and has proven incompetent. Nobody gives a fuck about his expectations. :bookerskully
     
  7. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    R34 got them niggas blind
     
  8. Juub Well-Known Member

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    Fuck off with that bullshit.

    So how is it not clear as day that Vegeto is an unusual case and is exceptionally powerful BECAUSE he is Goku and Vegeta? That "better compatibility" is just some bullshit you came up with. Vegeto is the one whose strength exceeded expectations because of his fusees not fucking Kefla. If anything, being more compatible should be used as an argument in Vegeto's favor, not Kefla's.
     
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  9. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    Alright kiddies let's go over this stuff from yours truly
    >A weakened base Goku was matching ssj2 caulifla during the start of there fight
    >A weakened ssj2 Goku was >ssj2 caulifla which caulifla admitted this when kale went berserk again and tried to master it
    >A weakened/tired Ssjg Goku stomped both a stronger kale and ssj2 caulifla with ease with kale putting up a decent fight while caulifla was a fly to Goku
    So u have one half of vegito in a tired out state stomped two beings at there best and in peak shape and even was matching there fusion in blue and even hurting them with kaioken
    The idea Kefla>vegito is horseshit no matter what u tried to pull
     
  10. Juub Well-Known Member

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    @Erkan12 Disagreeing is something but lying like you are is something else entirely.
     
  11. WorldsStrongest Man of Miracles

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    LSSJ <<<<< SSG <<<<< SSB

    Stupid argument

    Hell SSJ3 is portrayed in a better light than Kales LSSJ when its aura no sold a combined attack from Kale and Caulifla :lmao
    Vegeta and Goku are the ones argued for having a more complete fusion than anyone else by Elder fucking Kai

    Not Kale and Caulifla

    Second stupid argument
    And?

    What evidence is there that hes ever even seen potara in action before to gauge by "what he assumed"?

    Elder Kai was the fucking PRODUCT of a Potara Fusion back in Z and hes the same guy who says that Goku and Vegeta are what made Vegito so great...Not just Potara itself.

    Need i remind you Champa is also a moron?

    Same guy who couldnt figure out why Caulifla was losing to Base Goku?
     
  12. WorldsStrongest Man of Miracles

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    She isnt more powerful at all

    And to suggest she is because of a transformation thats WEAKER than SSJ3 is fucking hysterical logic :lmao
    Nothing about their combination is "perfect"

    All youre doing here is saying that "hurr durr they had no problems with deciding to fuse" as if thats some fucking factor to the end result which is entirely headcanon :tiredpepe
    Dumb logic considering its OUTRIGHT STATED their rivalry is a BONUS to the fusion NOT a hinderance

    Jesus kid...Read the manga before you try to talk about it please

    This is just embarassing

    No

    Goku and Vegeta are outright stated to be what MADE the Potara between them as potent was it was. Elder Kai outright states the end result owed as much to them as it did to the earrings...

    NOTHING like that is stated to be teh case between Kale and Caulifla...Nothing

    You are blowing smoke out your ass and expecting people to take you seriously when you suggest otherwise
     
  13. OLK Well-Known Member

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    Jiren outlasts Vegetto and wins
     
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  14. Fang Titan

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    There was no calculations. Why are you making things up. Stop arguing with an opinion and actually provide factual evidence, we have statements, we have evidence, and we have accolades backing them; Toriyama, the Daizenshuus, the Elder Kaioshin's explanation on Portara, etc...Get over it.

    >non-canon

    You generally have no idea what you are talking about. That much is apparent with you not being able to formulate a rebuttal to what we have said. This is why your claims at this point are "no I don't believe that and bullshit", opinions without fact. So yeah how about coming around and explaining how a fusion of two people who are massively weaker then individually then Goku or Vegito and can compare to Jiren and UI Goku, is somehow going to fuck up a fusion of Goku and Vegeta.
     
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  15. Extravlad Well-Known Member

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    You are the only hypocrite here.
    122 Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>> FT Arc SSBKK Goku which you assumed out of nowhere was X20 even though there isn't any evidence of it
    And MZamasu was fully serious while Jiren was masively holding back.

    Jiren has 0 questionable feats, MZamasu got injured by FT Arc Goku while the much stronger ToP Goku could not put a scratch on him without UI.

    Also funny how you arrogantly mock "Kefla apologists" when you wank the ultimate edgy fanboy character in the history of Dragon Ball : Vegito.
     
  16. CaptainCommanderRenji Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to explain why Kefla is stronger than Vegetto because I don't think she is. Jiren however is stronger than Vegetto. No calcs or non canon multipliers from 30 years ago needed. Just watch the show, hear out what they have to say and you would know this.

    I believe we are done. You choose to ignore actual events and I choose to ignore your fan calculations and theories. We are stuck.
     
  17. Juub Well-Known Member

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    Hur hur, Merged Zamasu didn't even defend himself and let Goku hit him. Didn't even attempt to fight back because he was mad at ningens challenging him. :bookerskully

    It also doesn't matter how strong Vegeta was. A Blue-tier had no business even grazing let alone knock down Mr.Stronger-Than-A-God of Destruction. That's the point. This showing just like Zamasu's was a pathetic display compared to his more consistent showings.

    Also lol @ you owning @Fang and @Crimson Dragoon when it comes to Saint Seiya. Extrasalt is up there among the worst posters of the DB section.
     
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  18. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    I think Juub is one of the worst posters of the DB section, are we going to play a game like this? :oldshrug
     
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  19. Ultra Instinct Vegito Well-Known Member

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    Blame Toei for its inconsistencies. Toriyama wanted Goku and Vegeta to defeat Zamasu without a fusion.
     
  20. Juub Well-Known Member

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    You can but you'd be in the minority. There's a reason you're hiding your rep.
     
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  21. Fang Titan

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    Where is the evidence? You have yet to provide proof to this claim.

    I have and none of it backs your arguments. Merged Zamasu is GoD tier at minimum, Vegito is above him. Jiren is above GoDs too. So how does that math somehow equate to proving Jiren is greater than Vegito?

    You are done because you have no arguments.

    - I gave evidence from Gowasu
    - I gave evidence from M. Zamasu with scaling for Kefla and Vegito
    - I gave an explanation on how the Portara Earrings work with adding and multiplying the combined powers of the two people fusing magnitudes over and over as Gowasu and the Elder Supreme Kaioshin have stated
    - You repeated yourself without any tangible evidence

    You don't really have anything here.
     
  22. Fang Titan

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    K.
     
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  23. xmysticgohanx Zoro > Law

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    Bro, stop for one second and think about what that means.

    Seriously!!! Think about it lol

    What does it mean in regards to ToP Goku/Vegeta vs Black arc Goku/Vegeta

    What have I been arguing this whole time.

    The statements and feats prove your assumption of Cauli and Kale < Black arc Goku and Vegeta wrong.

    ToP Goku and Vegeta are just that much stronger. Like seriously.

    Statements feats > Assumptions
     
  24. Juub Well-Known Member

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    Didn't even address the point. Bravo.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2018 at 12:40 PM
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  25. Kinjin Silver Bullet

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    :tiredpepe
     
  26. Fang Titan

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    Thread turned out as expected.
     
  27. MShadows Deathbat

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    Oh, this is nothing. There's been far, far worse!
     
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  28. Juub Well-Known Member

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  29. Juub Well-Known Member

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    That it did. It had run its course anyway. Opposition had nothing but nonsense arguments and circular logic.
     
  30. Fang Titan

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    We already did.

    That they didn't get thousands of times stronger between the two arcs. We know that.

    That you have been proven wrong on multiple times now.

    Yeah I do sure like seeing how a fresh SS2 Goku was completely toying with SS2 Caulifla, and Berseker Super Saiyan Kale didn't do shit to the same Goku. Or how a tired SS2 Goku post-first fight with Jiren was holding his own against the two, and this is adding in Kale's controlled Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2 form being stated to be much stronger than her Berserker one and the two of them being ragdolled by SSG Goku casually.

    Meanwhile SS2 Goku was on the defensive against a base Black before he had a Zenkai or even got SSR when traveling back in time, and then getting stronger to nearly one-shot Vegeta with a kick who was fighting him full power in SSB form when they traveld with Trunks to the future.

    Your logic, you have none of it. Especially when we know from Hermes translation and MShadow's own one that Goku was hugely holding back against Berserker Kale too. :lmao

    No one is going with your claims.

    Not until Goku post-second UI fight when he fought Kefla or those gains made obvious when fighting Jiren alone or with Vegeta once it was down to it. So no.

    The statements, feats, accolades, and evidence > your nonsense.
     
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