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Jirya is both overrated and underrated and I’m still confused as to how this happened

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Orochimaru op, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, Jman either gets wanked got eh next dimension or slept on like it’s fucking history class

    You have some people who think jiriya can solo itatchi and Kisame, which is dumb. But then you have people who think hebi sasuke is beating SM Jman with ma and pa.

    Like what! How is this character both underrated and overrated at the same time!? HOW

    Jman is in between these two extremes imo and people need to stop exposing such harsh feelings on him.

    Jman being able to fight three paths of pain while having no idea what’s going on and trying to collect information on them is nothing to scoff at. Pain is such a unique fighter and you need intel to fight them. Jman went in with no intel on pains home turf and fight all these giant summons with just one frog summon while concentrating on summoning the great toad sages.

    A drugged jiriya who was heavily nerfed was still Able to create a mud swamp jutsu big enough to immobilize a giant snake. Most shinobi couldn’t dream of pulling a jutsu on that scale and he did it nerfed.

    Jiriya has many toads on his side, with jutsu that play very well into each other. Toad oil plus toad flame bomb yields amazing results. He has many jutsu for many situations. His hair attacks offer versatility and large AOR attacks.

    Jiriya could casually trap a multitude of the animal paths dogs into a giant toad belly.


    He’s pretty strong, and SM amps him a lot. People sleep on his battle prowess too.


    But for gods sake you got people saying SM Jman solos all paths of pain and that’s utterly ridiculous man.

    Jman is strong, he’s really strong. But Jesus we need to stop wanking him and we also need to stop sleeping on him.
     
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  2. Onda Vital Well-Known Member

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    There needs to be another subforum called "Jiraiya Battledome".
     
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  3. Android Keep it simple

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    The site is filled with average posters who are incapable of understanding the manga.

    You'd see either massive wankers who wank to high heavens or insufferable haters who disgustingly downplay.
     
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  4. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    I think a way to explain this is

    Base - overrated

    SM- underrated

    I don’t personally think this, in fact I don’t care about him at all but this is how I’d explain it
     
  5. Turrin 玄武

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    I think Jiraiya beats Itachi and Kisame; and could loose to Hebi-Sasuke. Things like Itachi being weakened by illness when he encountered Jiraiya; and match up matter a lot.
     
  6. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me your sarcastic
     
  7. Turrin 玄武

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    Nope. Your just overrating or underrating one or more of these characters
     
  8. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    How would jiriya best itatchi and Kisame but lose to hebi sasuke when hebi sasuke barely beat itatchi and itatchi let him win. At best hebi sasuke equals sick itatchi. So how would Jman lose to sasuke but win against itatchi who is equal in power PLUS Kisame is in there too

    How
     
  9. Turrin 玄武

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    Match up....

    You don’t need to beat Sick Itachi by actually landing a fatal blow on him, just last long enough that he dies from illness. Jiraiya is a stamina monster and has fighting style that is specifically well suited to stall tactics with techniques like Yomi Numa, Gammagakuru, and Toad Gourd. He’s also more equipped to slow down Susanoo as in SM he hasn’t access to sound techs

    Hebi-Sasuke who has a lot less chakra then Jiraiya and is a more aggressive fighter is less suit to stalling the enemy; and as we saw in the fight he ran out of chakra by the time Susanoo was out and at that point he was fucked

    Against Jiraiya though Sasuke aggressive style is better and he can actually defeat Jiraiya with Kirin which got walled by Susanoo against Itachi.

    Not saying he certainly beats Jiraiya, but he can win against Jiraiya, while he cant win against Itachi. And Jiraiya can loose against Hebi-Sasuke while he can win against Itachi.

    Kisame is meaningless as his level is too low to make much of a difference; a clone from Jiraiya can handle him
     
  10. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Wtf Kisame is strong idk what ur talking about. He took on bee and a sixth gate guy.

    How is Kisame a non factor?
     
  11. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Jesus, just when I thought you couldn't astound me any further.
    :dammit
     
  12. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    Turrin is an interesting guy
     
  13. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    So Hebi Sasuke > Jiraiya, yet healthy Itachi > Jiraiya = sick Itachi, yet sick Itachi > Hebi Sasuke.

    I didn't even go through Hebi Sasuke = SM Naruto. :lmao
     
  14. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    :oldshrug

    I gave up a while ago but I do find him interesting
     
  15. The Death & The Strawberry Serene Grace

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    No way this ñigga I see posting here is Turrin, gotta be a clone or some shit

    :gglife
     
  16. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    Says one of the former

    Ironically
     
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  17. AJBeckyBlissRollins Well-Known Member

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    He's absolutely both unfortunately.
     
  18. Eliyua23 Well-Known Member

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    As someone said his base form is drastically overrated

    when people think Base Jiraiya can defeat Kakashi or when he’s stronger than IA Naruto or Hebi Sasuke


    But his SM is overrated when people think Edo Kages can beat him soundly
     
  19. Turrin 玄武

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    He’s not strong in relation to Itachi or Sannin.

    His ability to take on B was 100% match up based; he was an ideal match up for dealing with V1/V2 B and Full Hachibi was restricted for that fight

    He lost to Gai, despite the topography advantage and being amped by Bijuu chakra.

    Under most circumstances Kisame has struggled with Jonin level fighters like Roshi or been stated to struggle with P1-Kakashi.

    Like I said Jiraiya clones and summons can deal with him
     
  20. Turrin 玄武

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    One day you’ll understand match up matters...one day
     
  21. LostSelf Forest Sage Moderator

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    Yes, he is, along the Sannin. But once was Tsunade the focus, then was Orochimaru, then now is Jiraiya. All of them had their huge crazy feat.

    Tsunade had several. From being 6th gated Gai level of speed or just slightly slower than the Raikage, to be impossible to be put in genjutsu (Sharingan) because it was never shown Madara trying, wich meant that Madara tried and failed off panel.

    Her lowest (underestimation) I've seen of her was losing to Kidomaru. A guy that a special Jonin would be able to stomp, and the damned Hokage was said to lose to him.

    Orochimaru didn't have too many lows.Or not as bad as Tsunade. But he was said to beat 8th Gated Gai with Manda alone, not even him fighting. I don't remember seeing him underrated grossly. People says he loses to Hebi Sasuke, Gai, Kakashi. But I don't think that's enough to make an uproar. Wich is the thing I disagree the most with the Sannin supporters.

    If something below Itahci's level beat them, they are automatically overrated with a boom. Like if Deidara, to put an example, were Chunin level. The Sannin, Imo, are not so much ahead of mid-tiers as to make an uproar when Deidara beats Jiraiya by some posters.

    Jiraiya is now the focus and he's a litte more balanced. HE doesn't have a gruesome underestimation that I can think of in the level of Tsunade losing to a Chunin. And doesn't have a gruesome overestimation like Oro beating a god tier with just his summon. He's balanced in both, with both sides thinking the other side is a wanker or crybaby.

    Two terms I despise, honestly. But if you ask me, the Sannin are overestimated. Not because someone (with exceptions) says they are god level, no. But because "The List" (things that are overrated because they beat a Sannin) or the underestimation of someone's good game to say why it doesn't matter against the Sannin and they'll counter.

    For example: Speed. One of the first assets called overrated because people were saying they beat Tsunade or Jiraiya. And you still can see how even the speed of the Raikage might be irrelevant in front of very creative ways the Sannin will always fight, as if they broke the 4th wall and were writting themselves.

    But we know only Itachi wrote and drew himself in the manga.
     
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  22. Icegaze 氷の眼差し

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    What i find most confusing is why people think it takes jiriaya ages to gather SM chakra. He is the only SM user bar Rikudo naruto to have gathered SM in a 1 v 1 scenario. Naruto always gathered it before the fight or with support. I also find it unfair that SM naruto fights are casually thrown around yet when the fight has jiriaya starting in SM people turn their noses up saying jiriaya is starting at an advantage

    Jiraiya gathered SM a whole lot quicker than people think, we see while on the toad that he looses his footing, this means he wasnt still thus could not gather natural energy the entire time he was on the toad. We also see in combat how easily rikudo naruto through sasuke arrogance could hide a clone to gather SM. Now we know jiriaya doesn't employ that method but why do we give naruto benefit of the doubt in hiding a clone or himself to gather SM yet not jiriaya? despite jiriaiya having MUCH better guerilla tactics?

    So already most over estimate time taken to enter SM, when he is again the ONLY SM user bar a god to have entered SM in a 1 v 1 scenario

    Secondly why is kisame Retcon acceptable but jiraiya's isnt when we know the only reason frog katas wasnt used is so naruto could show it. We all deny a canon statement on kisame portryal due to later shows yet cant accept the opposite. Nerf'd showings with statements contradicting said performance? why is that?

    i say this because somehow frog call which can be used instantly to immoblize a giant dog somehow wasnt thought of when jiriaya was fighting. So we have 2 moves which could have turned the tides of things in the 3 v 1 without the need for retreating but again these moves are ignored when it comes to jiraiya

    yet kamui GG which has never happened in the manga by the same tokken is thrown around daily. So why is that ?

    ps: none of this is me saying jiraiya cant be blitz by A depending on the scenario, or that he can tank a punch KCM said would kill him

    @UchihaX28 @Orochimaruwantsyourbody @Turrin

    interested in your responses to this post
     
  23. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Much needed post!

    Personally I have SM Jiraiya under Pain (intel or not) and above Hebi Sasuke/Akatsuki Non Dojutsu. Placing him as rough equals with Itachi.
     
  24. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    I have never, in my entire tenure here, seen anyone underrate Jiraiya like to this proposed degree or anything close to it

    Outside of the most delusional people around here who are VICIOUS outliers that think shit like Hebi Sasuek > SM Naruto

    Hes rated either perfectly fairly, or hes viciously wanked.

    Ive never seen the man underestimated...Ive only ever seen his opponents OVERESTIMATED as is the case with the Hebi example.
    Thats anime filler

    We dont discuss filler here
    Sure

    And they allow him to lolnope a lot of people on the Jonin spectrum

    But what Jiraiya fans dont realize is, most, if not all Kage level ones? They counter this kind of stuff in their sleep.

    Either by having their own summons, ridiculous power that the Summons cant step to, hax etc
    Wouldnt say that myself :catshrug

    Manda legit speedblitzed this technique at point blank range and came within inches of feinting and eating Jiraiya AND his summon had another Sannin not been there to bail them out.

    Its a cool tech for sure, and again, decimates Jonin levels...But Kage ones? Not so much.

    This also works as a double edged sword...YEah jiraiya has this massive Katon/Oil combo that he can pull off with his Summon...But if he CANT USE SUMMONS? Or his summons are TAKEN DOWN? Jiraiyas firepower is now heavily left wanting.

    Jiraiya doesnt have synergy with his summons like people view it as...Its more extreme than that. Hes DEPENDENT on them. They are literally a crutch for him.

    That is demonstrated when he attempts to use SM...He straight up CANT enter SM solo as he needs Gamaken to protect him...And he straight up cant even USE SM solo he NEEDS the elders to do half his work for him.

    Thats dependency...Not synergy...
    So do most Jonin and higher level Ninja

    Versatility stops meaning anything at around that level as well
    His hair attacks are overrated...His hair has no impressive defensive feats, and its offence has been negged by Substitution

    This is, again, one of his versatility things...Its a nice Jutsu to have (I guess) but honestly it just feels like he has it for the sake of having it.
    Same snake a 12 year old Naruto overpowered :catshrug
    Again...

    Most Jonin levels and lower? Yeah you have a point.

    Most Kage levels? They can either replicate or surpass it.
    Sure

    If you ignore the fact he ran away 60% of the time
    Thats not really how it went down

    In manga canon, Jiraiya and Gamaken only fought one summon, and they ran from it for most of the fight...

    Once the other 2 summons (bird and bull) got involved, Gamakens time ended.
     
  25. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Match up does matter, but clearly you don't understand it based on what I outlined. SM Naruto = Hebi Sasuke being the most absurd because you refuse to accept SM Naruto's boosts... which is even worse because you've decided a perfect Sage Mode gives an identical boost to an imperfect Sage Mode.

    If anything you proved CS provides a multiplier like Jiraiya's SM... but refuse to accept a perfect SM would naturally have a higher multiplier.

    Back then, I said some day you'd understand it all, but evidently I was wrong. :neutral
     
  26. Turrin 玄武

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    Given me a single statement that says Naruto Toad SM offers more then a x10 boost. I’ll wait....
     
  27. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    No Turrin, your bias will prevent you. Previously, by myself and others, you were shown literally every page where Naruto demonstrated superior Senjutsu capabilities compared to Jiraiya. You were even shown statements where Naruto's Senjutsu was said to be better. Yet, you still go with your faulty interpretation of the databook.

    In fact, when you couldn't make up your mind about what Fukasaku was saying in chapter 420, you even once said he meant Naruto surpassed Jiraiya with Senjutsu; hard to do if he got the same boosts.
     
  28. Turrin 玄武

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    Okay so as usual you can’t show me any statements to support your head canon, okay moving on... until you can
     
  29. MarF You think you got an idiot in front of you? You're right.

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    Something that really baffles me is that in almost every NBD thread I enter, someone mentions "Sannin Wankers".

    But, then I ask myself, where are all these so called Sannin wankers? I can't find them. I guess what happened here is that the moment someone argues even remotely in favor of a Sannin member he get's labeled a wanker...

    The way this get's brought up and beaten to death over and over here, you'd think every thread here is full of these wankers...


    Jiraiya beating Itachi and Kisame at the same time has been pretty much a meme here for years... apart from maybe a few users at most, nobody here takes that statement seriously...

    Jiraiya being capable of beating Pain UNDER VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES is a blatant manga fact. Anyone that argues against that fact, something that NAGATO HIMSELF stated, is hopeless.

    That wasn't some baseless and trashy self hyping bullshit, like we often see in this manga.

    That was Nagato talking out of experience and humility, right after facing Jiraiya and loosing three paths from an attack that he didn't expect...

    If Jiraya entered the battle with full knowledge he would have baited out all six paths and lured them all into a trap to beat them with Frog song. As implied...

    If a one armed Jiraiya can survive for some time against all six and even kill one of them, a fresh Jiraiya pulling that off isn't wanking...

    Does that mean he can beat Pain in an neutral setting with Deva going all out? Hell no. Doesn't change the fact that under specific circumstances he could do it.


    Also, for those saying Hebi Sasuke beats any member of the Sannin... I'd like to remind you that post skip Sasuke is overconfident as hell and liable to get killed by a counterattack, after rushing in headfirst and attacking with basic Kejutsu/Chidori like an idiot.

    And guess what happened when Sasuke took on an Orochimaru on his fucking deathbed, he was left paralyzed on his knees, incapable of doing more than moving his head. If Oro wanted to, he could have easily killed him right then and there.

    Now guess what would happen if Sasuke tried to kill Tsunade with Kenjutsu/Chidori...

    Seriously... Does anyone here actually think that the person who was jumping around and smashing down Susanoo's while having two massive blades going straight through her inner organs and spine, would go down from a Chidori or a sword slash? No,... she'd take the attack head on, grab his arm and punch his head off in retaliation.

    So in sum, one of Jiraiya's peers could have casually murdered Sasuke's ass, if he wanted to and the other one would also beat him due to machtup factors.

    Jiraiya in his own right beat an entitiy stronger than Hebi Sasuke in the three Pains he faced... Sure Sasuke could potentially fuck Jiraiya over with Genjutsu, but then again, that's debatable...
     
  30. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Turrin accusing others of headcanon. :rotfl

    @Ishmael @King1 @WorldsStrongest
     
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