1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice

KCL M465: IchLiebe vs EnergySage

Discussion in 'Konoha Training Grounds' started by Daenerys Stormborn, Sep 15, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Daenerys Stormborn Advisor

    Messages:
    12,643
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    953
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005






    IchLiebe vs EnergySage @ Wave Country Town, Long

    IchLiebe
    Itachi
    Kakashi
    Neji
    Sai

    vs

    EnergySage
    Sage Jiraiya
    Tobirama
    Omoi
    Tenten​

    Dany Note: Welcome to the KC, IchLiebe!

    Good luck to both contestants!
     
    Tags:
  2. EnergySage

    Messages:
    7,508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Reputation:
    GL Ichliebe

    Spoiler:
    Knowledge-

    Kakashi- Jiraiya should have relatively good knowledge.
    Itachi- We know he's a genjutsu specialist, and we have knowledge on the Mangekyo Sharingan. Jiraiya doubtlessly would've gathered information on Itachi when researching Akatsuki
    Neji- Full from Tenten
    Sai- Full from Omoi

    vs

    Sage Jiraiya- Virtually none. They know of what Itachi saw in Part 1, and Kakashi should know he has Sage Mode.
    Tobirama- Virtually none. During the invasion of Konoha, Kakashi was in the midst of fighting the opposing forces, and thus could only have glimpsed at the battle occassionally
    Omoi- Full from Sai
    Tenten- Full from Neji
    Strategy-

    Part 1- Pre-Sage Mode

    Jiraiya- will immediately summon Gamaken under my team, and begin preparing Sage Mode.

    Tobirama- Will immediately begin sensing and track the enemy's positions and actions, and create 2 KB.

    Omoi- Will Raiton flow all swords, including Tobirama and his KB.

    Tenten- Will wait.

    Part 2- Sage Mode Achieved

    From here, we will go on the offensive. Using Tobirama's sensing and Ma/Pa's SM sensing, we will track down the enemy. The following are some generic scenarios, but my team is free to alter them based on scenario.

    The enemy is flying- We will used ranged attacks to hit them, such as, but not limited to, Jiraiya's needle hair, Tobirama's water dragons, Ma/Pa's various attacks, etc.

    The enemy is underground- We will locate them via SM sensing and Tobirama sensing. Our options include, but aren't limited to, Pa's concrete cutting tongue, Senpo: Chou Oodama Rasengan, using Omoi to Raitonize Jiraiya's needles or Senpo: Ranjishigami, making his hair into a series of electric tentacles ripping through the earth and impaling his victims, or even using Tobirama's newest Suiton to cut through the earth.

    The enemy is facing us in direct combat- While dumb, it is a possibility. The flavor of the day will probably Senpo: Kawazu Naki+Followup attack of whatever persuasion you desire, but we'll use whatever is necessary to get the job done.
     
  3. Luftwaffles

    Messages:
    10,616
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Reputation:
    Welcome to the KC IchLiebe! And good luck, getting Jiraiya at long is bad luck :sniff
     
  4. IchLiebe

    Messages:
    11,788
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    968
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Flag:
    Sokovia
    Reputation:
    My team will use prep to discussion intel on the enemy team (which is as follows) and battle plans.

    Jiraiya- He's a sage, uses frog summons, and a sannin.
    Tobirama- 2nd Hokage
    Omoi- Full knowledge as Sai saw everything he did in the war
    Tenten- Full from Neji.

    Their knowledge on my team-

    Kakashi- Everything except Raiton kage bunshin, raiden, and possibly raiton flow.
    Itachi- Genjutsu prowess, sharingan, and affinities.
    Neji- Full from Tenten.
    Sai- Basically full

    Strategy-

    As soon as the match starts they all do the following simultaneously. Neji activates Byakugan. He watches Jiraiya mainly and will watch the others if it doesn't mess with Jiraiya. He can see them from the starting point as it shouldn't be away given the .
    Sai creates two ink birds and one ink clone.
    Kakashi creates a KB.

    They split into teams on the birds which will stay 30m in the sky.
    Bird 1- Sai, Neji, KB Kakashi
    Bird 2- Ink clone Sai, Itachi, Kakashi

    They both head to where Jiraiya is using Neji's directions at full speed. Kakashi, Bunshin Kakashi, and Itachi will protect the birds from any possible attacks incase Sai can't dodge.

    When they start getting close Neji will inform them of all ninja's locations and possible traps. Using the directions, Sai and his clone starts dropping on Jiraiya and any summons. We will drop as many bombs as possible in 20 seconds, all focused on Jiraiya. From how much damage 3 did in the scans, SM or not Jiraiya should die from this. Neji will check and make sure he's dead.

    If Jiraiya is alive then Kakashi and Itachi drop in swat team to finish him off. Bunshin Sai will drop in 2 snakes to find and bind Jiraiya.
    Neji will watch for enemy teammates who are near or coming for Kakashi. If they start to get close then Kakashi's clone will disperse, relaying all the information of the incoming opponents. Ink clone Sai will create to stand guard on the location. Sai will start to make more exploding tags and attack the enemy with Neji's directions.

    Kakashi will hide underground and make a Raiton Kage bunshin. RKBKakashi and Itachi attack from both sides, front (RKB Kakashi) and back (Itachi). Itachi uses his finger genjutsu on Jiraiya if he can. RKB will go CQC with Jiraiya and once Jiraiya destroys the clone and gets stunned, Kakashi raikiri's him. When Jiraiya is finished off they (Kakashi and Itachi) will go and assist. Kakashi will use his nose and a dog summon to find the enemy's. If they come across an enemy then Itachi will attack the enemy from the front with a crow clone. Bunshin Itachi is to use to deliver a to all enemy's. Then throw kunai's at the neck for the kill. Kakashi and Itachi will stay close and watch his back. They will tag team anyone who comes after this and can handle all the other ninja quite easily. Ink Clone Sai is air support. He will drop 4 snakes to help bind anyone he can. He also drops in 3 lions for support.

    If Jiraiya is dead then it's basically the same as above(exploding tags on enemy's, two ink warriors, etc) except Kakashi and Itachi stay on the bird. They go after the next strongest Tobirama and drop in. Itachi is to create a crow bunshin to go after the other two (Omoi and Tenten if they aren't dead already) with ink warriors. He is to keep them away or push them back from Tobirama. Bunshin Itachi uses crow genjutsu, and kunai's like above. If they somehow break the genjutsu before dieing, Bunshin Itachi is to go CQC. If they still live then Sai, Bunshin Kakashi and Neji drop in on them. Anytime Neji goes CQC, if it looks bad, he is to use a . Sai is to do two things. First summon 4 snakes to help bind targets. Then summon his lions to attack. Bunshin Kakashi uses support ninjutsu and suitons to block any attacks that can't be dodged. They undoubtedly beat Tenten and Omoi.

    Kakashi and Itachi can copy all Tobirama's jutsu's and throw them back at him. Itachi is to use sharingan genjutsu any time he has the opportunity. They attack him from both the front (Itachi) and from the back (Kakashi). They are to keep him away from his teammates. Kakashi and Itachi will undoubtedly overwhelm Tobirama. They also have Bunshin Sai in the sky dropping ink snakes to bind Tobirama as support.

    If they all stay in the same building or area as Jiraiya then nothing changes really. They either die or have to fight it out extremely weakened and at a huge disadvantage. Kakashi and Itachi drop in. Kakashi makes a RKB. Sai will drop eight ink snakes (two for all enemy's), three lions and two ink warriors. Itachi creates a crow bunshin. They attack from all sides (Kakashi- North, Itachi- South, Bunshin Itachi and ink warriors- East, RKB Kakashi and lions- West) keeping the enemy contained. Clone Sai will continuously attack exploding tags. If any ninja escapes Sai and Neji will chase them down and kill them with exploding tags.
     
  5. Luftwaffles

    Messages:
    10,616
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Reputation:
    Jiraiya gets into Sage Mode and solos your entire team. Tobirama has the feats to react to everything you throw at him.
     
  6. IchLiebe

    Messages:
    11,788
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    968
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Flag:
    Sokovia
    Reputation:
    And he would solo how? A twenty second rain from Sai and his clone's exploding tags should take out Jiraiya. He had an arm blown off by Asura path and 3 of Sai's exploding tags showed more destruction than Asura has. He has no attack that would reach us 30m's in the sky. If he somehow lives, he's going to be hurt pretty bad. His teammates will surely die. Then he's getting attacked from 4 directions plus attacks from the sky. He'll get overwhelmed before he can kill even 2 of my people.

    React=/=living through. My team has 2 sharingan users who can copy everything Tobirama has and Kakashi has doton which beats suiton.
     
  7. EnergySage

    Messages:
    7,508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Reputation:
    Let me start by saying that Jiraiya does, in fact, reach Sage Mode. Gamaken can hop faster than your birds can fly, so even if you get close to us before Jiraiya can initially get into Sage Mode, Gamaken will retreat and defend, giving Jiraiya more time. No way is Sai going to hinder me when Pain couldn't. So, when the battle ensues, here's what we have going on. According to my strategy-

    Now, you say that we have no attacks that can reach you. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

    Water dragon, by itself, has great enough reach to get to your team. As does Jiraiya's fireballs, both Ma/Pa's tongues.

    Now, as to why your strategy won't work, remember the following.

    Firstly, you're trying to get right over my team to drop bombs. This gives an easy target. I can defend against your explosives with any of the following methods-

    Jiraiya's fireballs to ignite them early, Ma/Pa's Futons to deflect them, Tobirama's suitons to deflect them and defend the explosions, etc. The explosions aren't getting near me. Then, you've got Kakashi and Itachi dropping down, Swat Team style, which means you're doing two things-

    1- Making them travel at the speed of gravity, losing their ability to maneuver. This is slow for ninja.

    2- You've given us a predictable trajectory in which to aim at your team members. They're sliding down a rope. We can simply aim where the rope is, and cut it, or we can time the fall and attack your team directly. Taking their hands off of the rope to defend leaves them falling to the ground...again, giving us something predictable to aim at. A quick Senpo: Kawazu Naki will stun both Kakashi and Itachi, and leave them defenseless.

    But, assuming you manage to get away, and go underground, I have the following-

    Also, note that we have multiple sensors, and impressive reflexes. Tobirama and his clones have Raiton flow swords, and are capable of high speed, high skill kenjutsu, and Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa have SM sensing and many, many attacks.

    As for your team in the air, I present the fact that Haku's needles took down Sai's birds. Quick weapon spam from Tenten should do the same
     
  8. IchLiebe

    Messages:
    11,788
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    968
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Flag:
    Sokovia
    Reputation:
    You likely will get SM.

    Water dragon can be copied by Kakashi and Itachi, not to mention at 30 meters we will easily dodge. Kakashi and Itachi can stop Jiraiya's fireballs with suitons. Ma/Pa's tongues ain't reaching 30m in the sky letting alone hitting us.

    Never did I say I would get right over you're team.

    Jiraiya's fireballs ain't going to hit the explosive tags as they are attached to birds and can dodge. Ma/Pa only fuuton is a dust cloud which won't help because of Neji. Tobirama isn't making enough water to block the tags. Sai created 3 easily, double that to 6. It probably takes him lets say 3 seconds for it. So that's around 35-40 in 20 seconds. Just from what 3 alone did, you ain't stopping a continuous spam of them.

    Swat team style means the bird goes closer to the ground and they jump off the bird. My team is to contain your team. We can't do that as you're moving so they won't leave the bird till we kill you're summon. When we do then my team will able to get off the bird at a safe distance.

    The only time my team is to go underground is when fighting Jiraiya directly.

    How can Omoi raitonize Jiraiya's needles? He has never shown to put raiton in somebody elses weapons and it keep the raiton. He has never shown that or even a medium range raiton. Does Tobirama have his new suiton because it's not on the tier list?

    Again, I don't believe that Omoi could do the raiton flow thing. Kakashi and Itachi can keep up with Tobirama without any problems. Genjutsu is going to be bad for Tobirama.

    Kakashi can copy or block most of their jutsu's. Kakashi will also summon a RKB when Jiraiya fights so that opens Jiraiya up for a Raikiri combo. He hasn't shown a passive sensing ability and neither has Tobirama.

    Don't forget that Ink clone Sai will be dropping snakes to bind you're people and none except Jiraiya are strong enough to break the bind. He'll also be dropping other ink stuff (warriors, lions).

    Tenten isn't touching Sai's bird at a 30m range. He has to much room to dodge and has a Bunshin Kakashi there to use ninjutsu (suiton) to block anything he can't dodge. Sai will also drop 2 warriors who should crush Tenten, plus more exploding tags. Unless you're two main people (Jiraiya and Tobirama) babysit, which would make things worse, then they have two people who die (Omoi and Tenten) fairly quick. They don't have any good defense and Sai will destroy them.

    So they either babysit which makes openings on them or they lose 2 teammates and then they get overwhelmed.
     
  9. EnergySage

    Messages:
    7,508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Reputation:
    Thanks for agreeing


    That's just it. You're 30m above the ground. is easily 20m tall, if not a little more. That puts you ~10m above my team. is, by my estimate, 10m to the chameleon, wrapped around 3-4 times, all the way to the tail on that chameleon. so, that's ~40m

    Pa's tongue, meanwhile, reached from and cut through , so that's close to 40m as well.
    Both tongues are well within range.

    Water Dragon being copied is of no consequence. At best, your 3 (Itachi, Kakashi, Kakashi KB) cancels out my 3 (Tobirama, 2 KB) Leaving yourself open for attacks from Jiraiya and the Toads.

    This is a little hard to judge, given that the birds that the tags are attached to never showed great maneuveribility, just straight shot kind of action. Besides, at that high speed, they won't be able to get a lot of horizontal movement. Jiraiya's Katons are huge, and can be supplemented with Ma/Pa's Futons

    Pa's Futon is shown , fanning the flames for Goemon. It's SM enhanced, so the power behind it is pretty strong.

    Ma's Futon was used to create a dust cloud by blowing to the ground and throwing a lot of dust in the air. She wasn't blowing dust however. What's important to note is that her Futon was able to create a massive dust cloud large enough to hide the giant summons. That's some seriously powerful wind.

    Tobirama+2 clones can easily make enough water.


    That's a great secondary strategy, but there were no contingencies given about if my team was on the move or not. Your strategy has to be performed as written, or your characters act IC, but you can't designate specifically what they would do when a scenario you haven't thought of comes up.

    For example, I didn't make any contingencies for fighting if your team decided to be in a building. I don't get to say "Well, they'll just blow it down"...It's up to voter interpretation.

    Omoi can Raiton flow into Jiraiya's hair, much like Ei did for Mei's Water Dragon. Ei did not hurt Mei, much as Omoi will not hurt Jiraiya.

    Tobirama's new Suiton isn't restricted, so it's up to voter interpretation

    Omoi Raiton flow up to voter interpretation.

    Kakashi and Itachi can keep up with Tobirama, but it isn't "no problem". Tobirama now has top 5 speed feats. They'll have to be focused to keep up with him and 2 clones, not including Jiraiya.

    Once we're talking direct combat, that's where my plan comes into play. Nothing that Kakashi or Itachi have counters Senpo: Kawazu Naki. Having their hands full with Tobirama means that they'll be left vulnerable when they're stunned, and will take heavy, if not fatal, damage from the follow up while they're stunned.

    Tobirama was sensing during the whole Juubi battle, so he can sense and fight at the same time.

    I'm done debating. I'm only going to address voters now. Good luck
     
  10. Tsunami

    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    218
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Reputation:
    This is one heated battle. Dat SM Jiraiya and Tobirama though :lbj
     
  11. IchLiebe

    Messages:
    11,788
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    968
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Flag:
    Sokovia
    Reputation:
    You're welcome.

    I meant 30m above the tallest building, but my mistake. We are in the air which means constantly moving. We be dodging and if it can't be dodged then Kakashi or Itachi can certainly use some ninjutsu or kunai's to stop the tongue.

    I agree they are in range but we can still dodge or block them.

    Neji can block with air palm. Plus we still have the option to dodge the attack. Plus you're Tobirama's, Jiraiya, and Toads attacking at the same time means you're open to Sai's exploding tags.

    Can he keep it going for 20 seconds?

    It showed no destructive force. The best it would do is blow them away or slow them down.

    But no destructive force.

    I'll say I forgot about the clones.


    I said that if you're team stayed together we would contain them which mean put a perimeter around you're team. We can't do that till you're stopped.

    Ei kept his hand in a constant stream of water. Omoi won't be connected to the hair constantly.

    I was under the impression that they can only use what's on the tier list. I believe you also said that the new suiton should make it a higher tier than he's already in so why should we allow it right now?

    Ok.

    Kakashi and Itachi has 5 speed stats and the sharingan. They ain't fighting Tobirama alone. Sai will be dropping in snakes that bind you're people and none of you're people except Jiraiya has the strength to get out of them. Kakashi can handle Tobirama with dotons and counter suitons. He will eventually trick Tobirama and kill him.

    Itachi will genjutsu whenever possible. Plus Sai will be attacking from the sky. We will definitely destroy you're clones and pretty fast. Tobirama will die shortly after unless Jiraiya is there. If Jiraiya is there then it would only take more time.

    My team isn't attacking the way you're suggesting. Itachi and Kakashi would be on opposite sides (Kakashi-North of your team, Itachi-South of your team). They would be attacking constantly along with both Sai's from the sky.

    He never showed a passive sensing ability. He sensed when he wanted to but never a passive ability.

    Ok, Good luck.
     
  12. Daenerys Stormborn Advisor

    Messages:
    12,643
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    953
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005






    Match is currently tied 0-0 and thus enters SUDDEN DEATH.
     
  13. Luftwaffles

    Messages:
    10,616
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Reputation:
    Vote: EnergySage

    First off, not buying Omoi Raiton Flowing Jiraiya's hair, but other than that IchLiebe's is charging in with Explosive tags and SWAT style bombardment from above. Explosive tags will fail due to: Pa blowing the tags away, Tobirama nuking the tags away or Jiraiya burning them to a crisp. Gamaken has excellent reactions as well, so I doubt he'll get killed either. From there, I believe IchiLiebe's team will then use their massive combined attacks(RKB, Itachi and KB, Sai's drawing etc.) and will engage SM Jiraiya.

    First thing's first, there is no way Kakashi and Itachi can engage Jiraiya in CQC due to his hair Lion thingy or Ma/Pa's combo or solo attacks. CQC could prove disastrous due to Pa's mastery of Frog Kata. So basically Jiraiya ends them with Frog Call or Goemon. The end. Bad luck on location and opponent IchLiebe, better luck next time :LOS
     
  14. KawaiiKyuubi

    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    168
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Reputation:
    Well, it doesn't matter now, but EnergySage was going to get my vote.

    The initial confrontation is where you lose me. If (and it's a BIG if) you could take out Jiraiya before he hits SM then the rest of your plan would've probably gone off nicely. However I agree that there are simply too many counters available for those exploding tags from the top of Gamaken. And while you say you could dodge their attacks or the birds could dodge them, Gamaken is also ordered to hop out of the way if you get too close before JMan hits SM and once he does, he's going to start wrecking your shit bigtime. Even though I don't buy "Raitonized" weapons being handed around (at least with more than 1 "charge" to them) Tobirama isn't going to go down to Itachi and Kakashi without a fight and if Jiraiya is still alive to support then it's just not going to happen. No matter who Jiraiya focuses fire on, it's bad for you. If he takes out the birds, Sai and Neji first (which I say he can do on his own with Nidaisennin) while Itachi/Kakashi are trying to tackle Tobirama then there's no snakes to bind Tobi/Jiraiya and Tobi holds them off until Jman backs him up and together or even alone, Jman takes them out.

    I just don't see a situation where Jiraiya is dying here. As soon as you're in range, they start attacking you and the best you can do is to dodge/block it, there's no way anything is getting through without some clever strategy and "chuck bombs at them" doesn't count in my book. And then, once Jiraiya hits SM there's nothing that can be done. Nidai break genjutsu, which is your only shot at taking out Tobirama if he has backup or probably even alone.
     
  15. Daenerys Stormborn Advisor

    Messages:
    12,643
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    953
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005






    Match is closed, EnergySage wins 1-0.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...