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Kishimoto asks for your help...

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by ShadowBlade77, May 26, 2020.

  1. ShadowBlade77

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    Realizing that he can't write a good female character (less alone a convincing romance) even if his life would depend of it, Kishimoto decides to contact a world-renowned shipping expert. You.

    In short, describe which ships would, in your opinion, work the best in Naruto franchise. Provide a brief explanation.
     
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  2. Divell

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    The answer is easy, no. Give up. There are 4 females candidates for average, and one of them was killed before the final arc. Focus on the battles and forget the rest.
     
  3. Akira1993

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    Who cares about romance in a battle oriented shonen manga again?
     
  4. Divell

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    Chippers.
     
  5. Milliardo

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    Many people cared where you then? :urahaha
     
  6. Akira1993

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    Not in this forum at least, those people are weird then, the thematic of romance wasn't even hinted once, so why caring about it?
     
  7. Aduro

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    Anyone who knows that its important to the decisions quite a few major characters. An actually well-written romance can be very important in an action series. I remember the moment when Hinata rescued Naruto from Pein. That was freaking awesome. Hinata proved that she was as knuckleheaded and brave as Naruto was. I wanted Kishi to do more with that character.

    Honestly, I'd just tell him to have his female characters to have a bit more self-respect and a lot more agency, if romance was going to be so important to them. He'd probably screw it up and make them look like idiots. ie. Sakura in the Land of Iron. But maybe he'd get better with practice.

    Temari was a very cool and intelligent kunoichi. With a good dynamic with Shikamaru. You've got two people who liked each other. But who have responsibilities that probably mean that people expect them to repress that. Starcrossed lovers who are pragmatic enough not to get silly about it. With friends who could tease them about it for a laugh. Or elders who would be strict on them for having a crush on someone they were at war with a few years ago.

    It would have been good to see their relationship come to the fore during the War Arc. Instead of having them re-hash Asuma's death which had already been concluded perfectly.
     
  8. The Great One

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    Then how do you get shippers on board?
     
  9. Xel

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    The only ships I care about are actual marine vessels (:hurr), so I'd honestly just flesh out the existing pairings, especially throughout Part II. If I had to, that is - back then I thought that the manga wouldn't end with a timeskip to them all married with kids, guess I was naive thinking that they wouldn't milk the franchise.
     
  10. Akira1993

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    Who cares about shippers again? Because the author rarely cares about that nonsense in shonen
     
  11. 1337RedGlitchFox

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    ...


    .
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    Just bring back Tayuya so I can officially plummet Sakuras existence in the series fully in my mind.
     
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  12. Akira1993

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    How when it isn't the point of an "action" oriented series?

    Watch shoujo, slice of life, isekai or seinen for that kind of things.

    Battle oriented shonen only focus on battle, action, power level and friendship/rivalry
     
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  13. Draco Bolton

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    In shonen, zero author except Kishimoto who was obsessed with that with his cringe love stories, love triangle ect...

    That's why shippers in Naruto fandom are almost as numerous as fightfans and plotfans.
     
  14. Corvida

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    Kishimoto and his ridculous red herrings

    Full former teams of SP

    More than half of what was then the fan base
     
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  15. Aduro

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    Battle shounens that end up as dick measuring contests and power fantasies maybe.

    In an action series that ever takes anything seriously, characters should make decisions based on a variety of emotions and experiences. Otherwise, there's no reason to care about the consequences of the fights. Romantic love is too important a motivator in real life to completely neglect it in fiction.
     
  16. SoulFire! Moderator

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    Romantic relationships are a part of the human experience and I find that there is just something missing if it is left out of a story. It doesn't have to knock the viewer in the head, but an subtle romantic thread between characters (when developed properly, which Kishi avoided like the plague--he came closest with Minato/Kushina) adds another touch of humanity that exists in us all.
     
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  17. Alita

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    He could have had Naruto and hinata interact more and build their relationship up more before the last movie. Hinata expressed her feelings for Naruto during the pain saga for example and nothing came out of it.

    Sakura would have been better suited to end up with lee imo. It would have been far better for her character and people likely would not have hated her as much.

    Raikage and Tsunade are in the same age range I believe so they would have been a good pair too imo. (Plus it further validates all the hentai with the two of them together. :druul) I mean if karui and choji can be a thing I don't see why that is so hard to believe. :psyduck

    Shizune and Kakashi I also think could have been a good pair. :hmm
     
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  18. Dragonus-BB-

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    There are no "best ships" because he refuses to actually write any of them as more than one-sided romance, but they all have their own problems. The boys are never overtly depicted as having deep romantic feelings. Well, Sasuke blushes a few times and shows that he considers Sakura as one of his precious people but is pushing her away. Naruto seemingly gives up on Sakura at the start of the retrieval arc but has the Sai flashback to say he's still into her. He never acknowledges Hinata in a romantic light because Kishi was breathing a sigh of relief when SP offered to do it for him in 2012.

    Meanwhile the girls are constantly focused on their crush/love and these are their ultimate goals.

    Regardless of which characters are involved, to improve on them:
    • Let the females be orientated around more than their object of affection, have other goals/agency; they're not a different species that mere men cannot possibly comprehend as Kishi seems to think (hire a consultant if you're really that clueless? Women are people... write a 3d person)
    • Actually address characters' feelings on panel i.e. do more than reaction panels or idolising characters
    • Write a believable progression in feelings, we have multiple characters who like/love characters "just because", including Naruto himself regarding both of his potential interests
    • Maybe don't stick your characters in emotional limbo for 9 years, but then that's a general rescue Sasuke narrative frustration with him being left for last but placed as the number 1 emotional priority at all times
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  19. Suigetsu

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    I would let the girls be directed more to their objectives and goals rather than romance which is what kishi did, making them look super obssesive about romance. For example Sakura. I think all the hate that she recieves it's because of her obssesion with sasuke.

    Also Address characters feelings and situations that are not awkward and make them grow from there, for example if sakura gets rejected by sasuke then dont make her pinned to him. Have her move on or reflect on that. Since her relationship with Sasuke never worked I would had placed her with Naruto, since he is the main character and it's the girl that he wanted. Look I dont care about it that much, but since Sasuke and Sakura didnt work then that only makes Salad Suffer. It's clear that Sasuke doesnt like to be in Konoha so maybe with Karin it would work best? I dont know...

    :kanyeshrug

    Suigetsu with Mei Terumi. To provide an offspring with interesting abilities and the future of the mist village. So basically you could had both characters have a fling "sort of like how Vegeta and Bulma where in the android saga" due to the age difference and Suigetsu being sent by her to specific missions and stuff but are still close and open to each other. I think this could be a good oportunity to open the window for Kirigakure no sato information.

    Another one that could have worked is to put Ino with Suigetsu and have the inoshikachou be a squad of diplomats, I do think suigetsu and Ino would probably get along pretty well since both of them end up working on intelligence.

    Neji and Ten Ten would had been fun.
    Shizune and Genma.
    Kakashi could had worked with Samui or Mei. I would say Samui plus she could keep Karui company if they live in the leaf.
    Iruka with Anko definitely since both of them are teachers.
    Konohamaru with Hanabi.
    Juugo with the grand daughter of the cat lady.

    What do you think?:kermitthink
     
  20. SoulFire! Moderator

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    I may not agree with all of your pairing choices but I will always luv you, Sui, cos you have a true shipper's heart!! :love
     
  21. Suigetsu

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    Nani? You dont like kakashi with Samui? or Suigetsu with Mei? :dafuq
     
  22. Suigetsu

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    What? You dont like Kakashi with Samui or Suigetsu with Mei? What do you think about my explanations for those?
    :mikebatman
     
  23. SoulFire! Moderator

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    Lol! You know the pairings I prefer! :foxpfftBut I enjoy your creativity and thought in putting folks together!
     
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  24. Suigetsu

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    So you prefer Sui Mei right?:approved
     
  25. Dragonus-BB-

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    To be honest though, if we're not doing a massive rewrite, the canon ships would work a hell of a lot better with even just some slight touch ups.

    --

    For example, for NaruHina, I'd have Naruto realise that Sakura's never uplifted his spirits (ehh okay she cheered him on vs Kiba). Better put - she's never been there for him when he needed someone. When Jiraiya dies - what does she do for him? Squat all, she snaps at him for getting pained/angry at Tsunade and walking away.

    Parallel that with Hinata helping Naruto avoid going into despair when Obito kills Neji, and you can easily come up with an explanation that doesn't make Hinata sound like a rebound choice without writing off his past affection for Sakura. Have him realise that yes he did like Sakura, but Hinata made him feel something more in what she did for him, he's never had that kind of attention before.

    Sakura leans on Naruto, not the other way around. The only scene he's leant on her is when he complains that he has so much he wants to say to Tsunade, which while he has a whole bunch of new stuff to unpack (hi Minato/Nagato), is a tad insensitive gven that Tsunade is Sakura's master of 3 years, and obviously Sakura wasn't too thrilled to be cheering him up.

    Then to fix the mangled confession, you have Naruto just forget it - four tails made him forget what was going on, it wouldn't be a huge leap for Naruto to forget the 30 seconds before he went six tails. This way he doesn't look like he doesn't get "daisuki" when he clearly does elsewhere in the manga. You can have him recall it later if desired in some fashion, maybe a moment that triggers the memory.

    And voila, Naruto has something to start building up with Hinata without a silly genjutsu trap, and you don't need to completely write off his feelings for Sakura to avoid making it look like he 'lost' to Sasuke. GG.

    --

    For SasuSaku, mmm, let Sakura back off after the war. Don't leave her pining, have her process things, and make Sasuke reciprocate first, because she should not be having to go chasing after him after all of part 2. Actually write some of the reasons she came to love him - even if he understands her and encourages her at the start of the chuunin exams, he spent most of their interactions trying to push her away.

    I'd probably go down the route of her realising he's encouraging Naruto & herself to change for the better, see a hidden sweet side to him when Naruto is being dense and not paying attention. Something so it doesn't look like she's just constantly throwing herself at him until he gives up, a reason she believes there's something there, why she believes they'll be happy together. Definitely don't make it about his looks or lonely/damaged heart, that stuff's not cute as soon as you start to emotionally mature.

    Delete the Iron Country assassination Chidori, or at least give Sasuke a reason to believe Sakura is thinking about backstabbing him, as in have him react to her - because what he did wasn't see through her plan, it was set her up for an easy konoha kill. If you want to make it stay as it was, add an after the fact detail - he sees a drop of poison drip to the floor while she's standing over Karin (poisoned kunai = came here to kill), but we the reader don't see this at first. If you love your killing drama so much however, overtly excuse this later with Indra's chakra/personality taking over & influencing him.

    --

    I'm sure someone is going to come in here and say I just didn't read the manga properly and there are 4957393 reasons why these lot love each other, but, you can zoom in on little blushes and 'pairing moments' all you like, they don't have a basis if you remove the notion that they already like each other soooo much because reasons. Well, Hinata has hers very clearly laid out, but the other 3 not at all. Sasuke I suppose could be brow-beaten by Sakura's expressions/gestures of affection, like sacrificing herself against Gaara, but Sakura herself just deeply loves Sasuke because it's in her character profile from "Go!" And Naruto only has superficial reasons to like Sakura, and never has his feelings for Hinata developed.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  26. SoulFire! Moderator

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    Not my first choice but I've got nothing against it--and I have fun with the fandom arts you provide. :foxadorbs

    It wouldn't have been difficult to develop the canon pairings if only Kishi had even a smidgen of interest in doing so. We already had the foundation built in the first part of the series, particularly during the Forest of Death and the Chuunin exams.

    Naruto and Hinata thrown together with Yamato during the search for Itachi was prime for some additional interaction between the two but it went nowhere; Naruto showing some reaction to Hinata upon his return from defeating Pain--even just looking her up to thank her for her actions on his behalf; some thoughts back to that 'proud failure' speech she gave to buoy his confidence during the Chuunin exams. Instead Kishi crammed all of Naruto's growing interest in Hinata into the final war arc making it feel abrupt and tacked on (those not on the NH train likely didn't even notice until we got to Kiba teasing him). It would have been nice to see Hinata with her own goals as well, such as righting the wrongs of her clan, making more apparent the mending the rift with her father and seeing how she went about achieving the Twin Lion jutsu.

    Kishi made such a mistake with his hard heel turn of Sasuke that it was difficult to see him as anything but cold and uncaring by the time he made his return to the Big Three in the final war arc. There should have been a better explanation as to his sudden personality change in Iron country (at the time I actually thought might have had to do with Zetsu imbedded within him). There should also have been some signs that he did continue to care about Sakura (even if not in an obvious romantic vein) when the first met in part two and on into the story. Something showing us that he actually did like her even as he was constantly pushing her away with his words and actions. Again, this was tacked on toward the very end of the story but that was really way too little too late to make it feel believable. Sakura should have had more inclusion in the main story lines with more focus on her growth in medical techniques, in developing Tsunade's rejuvenation jutsu and in actually mastering her talent at genjutsu.
     
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  27. Dragonus-BB-

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    Agreed on all fronts that they should have their own goals & more inclusion in the main narrative. Sakura should not just be a slightly stronger Tsunade clone, she should have her own unique abilities. Hinata shouldn't be only just achieving 64 palms in the war.

    The confession being ignored was ridiculous and I think SP's handling of it in The Last is why I hate the execution of NaruHina. NaruHina the concept is fine - it just needs development, and I loathe that genjutsu. It's such terrible writing, it's like a young shipper's fanfiction, and they deserve better. I really wanted to get into the ship when I bought The Last. I'm indifferent to them actually being together, but dislike The Last's story (it's got some damn nice compositing though compared to the rest of their films).

    If you can link me to some NH viewpoint panel examinations on the war I'd love to reread those parts and reconsider them.

    Sasuke being so cold in part 2 is why I still can't get behind SasuSaku, even if we have a postmortem reasoning, it feels like it happened because the narrative for Sakura required it so. You shouldn't have to go circling panels of stares or sfx around ankles to suggest that there was still something there, or go quoting editor comments from splash page illustrations 300 chapters ago. Iron Country is what made it look ridiculous, but simultaneously cemented it.
    And I'd like to be able to see these two together in a positive light - I love their designs, I want to make sculptures of them etc, but I find my distaste for the way that pairing is written in part 2 makes me reconsider investing the time into really sexing them up in 3d. Sakura Hiden for me demeans Sakura by painting her as a lovesick puppy who'll chase down Sasuke and confess until he accepts her feelings; unnecessary. Especially as he's basically saying they can catch up when he returns from his journey in 699 anyway.

    (All said, I want to have a more positive relationship with this series despite posting in anti threads in this weird quarantine return)
     
  28. SoulFire! Moderator

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    For all things NH I would direct you to the first page of the NH fanclub in the fanclub section. Some links are broken, but there's quite a bit about the pairing from start to finish to be found there. :edu
     
  29. Akira1993

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    Actually, he didn't
     
  30. Akira1993

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    Important to whom? Depends on culture dude
     
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