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Lancer vs Lancer.

Discussion in 'Outskirts Battledome' started by Jag77, Jul 14, 2018.

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  1. Jag77 Henshin!

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    Cu Chulainn (Rin Tohsaka master) (Because I think this is when he was at his strongest?)

    vs

    Achilles (Fate Apocrypha)

    No injured heel.

    Bloodlusted.



     
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  2. Sablés Well-Known Member

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    Achilles' only shown class is Rider.

    Cu has chances since Gae Bolg is hax as fuck and Achilles' mana is low, but if you're comparing their overall kit, Achilles is so much stronger, it's not even funny. He's physically stronger than Cu in every way, probably the more skilled fighter, and can no-sell Gae Bolg with Kosmos or keep his distance with the chariot and ram him.
     
  3. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    What's mana have to do with GB ?
    But yeah...Achilles stomps unless Cu hits a GB right off the outset and that might not be easy considering Achilles's speed and defense NP's.
    Though there is always Cu's runes to keep in mind. With those he should be able to block one of Achilles's NP or he should be able to force him into one place with Ath nGabla.
    Out of 10 fights , I'd give Achilles 8/10 victories.
     
  4. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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    Achilles’ battle continuation also specifies that if his heel or heart are struck he flies into a rampage before dropping
     
  5. shade0180 your shadow

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    Cu tends to start with GB if he is bloodlusted.

    We have seen it every single time in fate where he starts a fight and not trying to hide who he is,

    :kannasip
     
  6. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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  7. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Again, assuming he actually gets in range of using it. Achiles's not known for being the fastest servant for nothing. Also Kosmos or Duel Field
     
  8. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Wew..that's kinda impressive in a way..Not even Cu with all of his survability can do a lot of shit after taking one in the heart.
     
  9. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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  10. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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    The FGO translation even specifies that if his heart is gouged out he'll keep on trucking, meaning this fucker has some fight left in him without a heart.
     
  11. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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    They have the exact same rank in it lmao
     
  12. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Hmm.. i know his heel is a weak point..but not a fatal point. I mean hiting it just nullifies his immortality right ? It doesn't put his life in immediate danger. Dunno why Battle Continuation would cover that but regardless..fighting without a heart is > Cu's Battle Continuation even though they are the same rank.
     
  13. GiveRobert20dollars Ame-No-Habakiri

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    I think it's brought up to highlight how tenacious Achilles is even in the face of having his speed crippled and his heart pierced.

    @TYPE-Rey Hitting his heel nullifies his immortality and weaknes Dromeus Kometes.
     
  14. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Right. Stands to reason that his speed would be affected with an injured leg.
     
  15. OneSimpleAnime King of Kaiju

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    If Achilles doesnt have knowledge Cu should be able to tag him with GB, then he just has to survive getting his shit pushed in. Achilles should take it more than not, 6/10 probably
     
  16. OneSimpleAnime King of Kaiju

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    Also reminds me, does F/E Cu have any extra shit due to having a better master and being on the Mooncell? His GB looks different too and has some weird extension shit when he uses the thrown version
     
  17. Raidou Kuzunoha Strongest

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    Cu doesn't necessarily have to strike his weak points to hurt Achilles since Cu naturally has divinity

    At this point it just becomes a matter of who can brute force who
     
  18. Unlosing Ranger Rebirth and destruction, again and again

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  19. Jag77 Henshin!

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    I read up on something regarding Cu.

    He apparently fought against Gilgamesh for 12 hours to buy time.

    His skill set was no selling Gil's gate of Bablyon for 11+ hours then?

    And if I'm not mistaken Gilgamesh wouldn't stay in one place for hours on end against somebody. HedH get bored and try to kill them eventually.

    How many servants can say they fought Gilgamesh for 12 whole hours?

    I feel like this is a huge deal.
     
  20. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    That was due to one specific skill that Cu posseses. Protection from Arrows. It's basically a fuck you against Archers . Still, an impresive feat.
     
  21. Jag77 Henshin!

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    Yeah yeah

    That's the one.

    Still some crazy shit if you consider IC or Bloodlusted Gilgamesh was genuinely trying to off him.
     
  22. Sablés Well-Known Member

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    typo, meant luck.
     
  23. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Gil wasn't bloodlusted in Fate and by extension HA save for a couple of instances. He fucked around with Cu. Bloodlusted Gilgamesh means going immediately for Ea and Enkidu...he never took Cu seriously.
     
  24. Ultimate Deathsaurer <b>Nightmare of Zi</b>

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    Achilles doesn't actually have a speed advantage here. Before he came along Cu was called the fastest heroic spirit and in the Vlad fight the narration said Karna was only a step behind Achilles.


    Rider of Red stepped into range and rapidly snapped them away with his spear. Generally speaking, there was no one among these Servants present who could beat him in terms of speed. It was the same even if he wasn’t mounted on his chariot. There was no one, either before or after his death, who had beaten the great hero Achilles of the Trojan War in speed.

    Though he was one step slower than Rider, Lancer of Red was also quick-witted and agile. He smashed all the stakes that had been shooting at him since earlier.
     
  25. Sablés Well-Known Member

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    Less impressive than you think because Kirei CS'd Cu to survive against every servant for the first time, has BC/PfA and fought Gilgamesh in a tiny basement, where they stood right next to each other. Cu had serious tactical advantage here.
    Translation error. The statement was actually referring to the 5th HGW.

    But yeah, speed isn't settling anything here.
     
  26. Ultimate Deathsaurer <b>Nightmare of Zi</b>

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    No both EMIYA and Artoria said his agility was second to none.
     
  27. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Not really... Rider is faster than him in average speed. He needs to accelerate to the max in order to become the faster than her. Also, pretty sure Cu was called the fastest Servant in F/S/N or the 5th Grail war while Achiles is called the fastest Servant period.
     
  28. Ultimate Deathsaurer <b>Nightmare of Zi</b>

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    Cu's top speed is higher than Medusa but he doesn't use it to fight like she does so on average she ends up with a higher speed.
     
  29. Jag77 Henshin!

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    They fought in a tiny basement for 12 hours that didn't get destroyed within 2 minutes?

    That's.... suspicious. Idk how to take that.

    Also real quick.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Did Nasu seriously confirm Cu would have flat out won the Holy Grail war if Kirei left he and Bazzett alone?
     
  30. TYPE-Rey No, not that Rey.

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    Nah..not as long as Herk was there.
     
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