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Laydown is it good for Naruto to have Kyuubi or not?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by lunarwolf, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. lunarwolf

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    First sorry if this has been posted before, didnt explore all the search results to see if yes or no, but from what I've seen after cheaking first 5 search result pages not thread as been made to officely chat about it lately.

    O.K First, I know you cant take Kyuubi out without killing Naruto or they other way around. They are connected to the same heart and mind.
    So even if AL takes Kyuubi out Naruto dies, If Naruto dies Kyuubi dies...and If seal Brakes Kyuubi takes over naruto's body.

    But what if there was a way(even if there isnt) :p is it realy bad???

    Anyways In my opinion having the Kyuubi is logicaly the best thing one can have...true it has big (-) points, but if u put the laydown it has more possitive points to it.

    The good points:
    ===============
    A. Unlimited chakra
    B. Heal fast
    C. Spaciel(how many have a demon inside them :p lol)
    D. Powerfull
    E. being able to do summonings and large Jutsu's normal ninja's cant: 2000 clones, call Gama, 2 Resangen for 2 hands as seen in Naruto the 2nd movie when Naruto used 1 red kyuubi chakra rasengan and 1 hes own normal rasengan(And yes i know doesnt belong to movie arc, but logicaly Naruto can do it)...No one can make or shown to be able to do 2 rasengans 1 in each hand.
    F. Hell of alot Stamina
    G. Be stronger than most Ninja's(note most not all)
    H. When ur in danger the Kyuubi will save u(To save himself but still)
    I. The red chakra protacts you from almost anything
    J. Red chakra can move by itself and attack without Naruto needing to do anything spaciel.
    K. More powerfull Kyuubi shows tails...more powerfull your attacks
    L. In Kyuubi state even 1 tail Naruto can do things and moves he normaly cant: Like a Rasengan without a clone and easly controling it...so im sure 2 tails and higher can easly control great ball rasengan and higher moves.
    M. Neji cant beat u cuse if he blocks ur chakra holes the kyuubi will give u chakra :p lol

    Now the downsides:
    ================
    A. You may lose control to the Kyuubi
    B. going 4 tails and above shortens your life span
    C. A.L and gang want you badly
    D. people are afried of you(most adults in leaf village).
    E. ooohhh yes, Its pure evil :p

    Now The Lose control of Kyuubi Is all Naruto's fult...He is hot blooded...and gets into emotions to easy...so ofcourse Kyuubi will take effacet of it to try and control naruto.
    But overall if he wouldnt get to emotional he can use 3 tails in good sense and not go all 4 ways or higher...and hell be fine and way strong.

    So, without Naruto's hot blooded brain that gives the big (-)...overall Kyuubi is amazing to have.
    I mean its all 100% healing baby...not drugs no nothing :p

    Look at the big (+) list its amazing :p

    What do you think???isnt mr.Kyuubi so cooooollll ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
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  2. The Truth

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    Of course its good, he'd be dead without it. To ever have a chance to compete with the strongest, he needs every advantage he can get.
     
  3. superflyninjaguy

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    ok heres how it is. in the begining of the series havin the kyubi was good for naruto since he was forced to encounter manyshinobi that were well out of his league and it saved him on many occasions.however, at this point in the manga its merely a hindrance to naruto. yes with possibility of going kn4 and akatsuki after him its bad but those arent the point i wanna make. the fact is the kyubi only hursts naruto's true potential. as stated by kakshi w/o kyubi naruto would have 10x more chakra reserve. also unconsciously using his own chakra to supress the kyubi's takes a considerable amount of focus and makes it near impossible for him to have newhere near precise chakra control. it also takes much more stamina than it would w/o kyubi just keepin it in check himself. so in other words if naruto didnt have kyubi he would have 10x his normal chakra, vastly improved chakra control and loads more stamina. also would make it much easier to learn jutsu with his new way as the kyubi makes that really hard to do and he could do it longer and withought yamato helpin him.
     
  4. Futagokage

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    Yes, because most of Naruto story is kyuubi-based, I mean, I have never seen a Naruto kyuubiless in this manga.
     
  5. lunarwolf

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    Actully its a good point, But if Naruto wont be over minded and emotional and wont go to the Kyuubi for power or over do himself...than Kyuubi can be locked behind...Like Naruto almost did before Sasuke himself pushed him back.

    But with all the good points...Being able to heal Automaticly and in great super speed form major wounds is far more of a (+) than any no?

    OOPps will add this to the above :p forget to say that If Neji for example or anyother with hes bloodline blocks the chakra holes of Naruto...the Kyuubi can give him the chakra needed.
     
  6. superflyninjaguy

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    only prob with the healing is, as with tsunade's healing, rapid healing like that wears down the persons life. so that accelerated healing is slowly killing naruto.
     
  7. Yulwei

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    I have to say it sounds hypocritical saying I don't like Kyuubi/Naruto when I'm a fan of Shukaku/Gaara(since Shukaku has been removed I can now have my cake and eat it) but I do feel using Kyuubi makes Naruto seem a lesser character. In a sense it's like a bloodline(which I also dislike but not as much) and if thought of that way it's acceptable since he doesn't rely on it as much as say Neji relies on his Bakyugen(sp?).
     
  8. Shinnou Genkaku

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    If Sasuke can have a bloodline, drugs, and CS2, then Naruto can keep his Kyuubi
     
  9. lunarwolf

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    thats 100% not true....Tsunade is using a creation rebirth Justu to fastly heel her wounds thats true..but its creation rebirth.

    Naruto Only kills Hes years when and ONLY WHEN hes 4 tails and above cuse the chakra is mixing some how with hes skin and healing Super Super every time cuse of that.

    Normal fast healing of 3 tails and Below doesnt harm Naruto.

    So, If he doesnt go 4 tails Kyuubi's healing is amazing...only 4 tails as we know cuse Naruto to kill years fast.
     
  10. ycavan

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    The way that Yondaime-Hokage sealed Kyubi, it IS possible to release Kyubi without harming Naruto. The seal that Yondaime-Hokage created "cages" Kyubi within Naruto, but allows Naruto to slowly absorb all of Kyubi's chakra over time (at a "safe" pace for Naruto).

    This is unlike Gaara, who had the Ichibi MELDED to him at birth. Gaara, up until he lost the Ichibi, had been 2 minds trying to take over that one body; whereas Naruto can give control to Kyubi.

    IF AL is Yondaime-Hokage, this was a brilliant maneuver, since Kyubi can be his whenever he wants.
     
  11. lunarwolf

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    Not true, The 4th sealed the Kyuubi is a gate that can allow chakra to get out, the gate cant be broken just the chakra.
    However if seal is weak it means Kyuubi can take over naruto...as seen in 4 tails...which means the fox takes a human forum...just like Ori is taking others body and mind...so does Kyuubi can.
    He is doing that cuse Naruto can enter hes mind inside the gate and allow the demon to take over.
    But Phisycly going out...it is not possible as far as we know.


    A.Naruto and kyuubi's first meeting at Naruto's mind stated when Kyuubi said:"you want to tell me if u day i day??"
    The kyuubi knows that if naruto dies he dies.
    B. When they go Rescue Gaara from AL and gang, It is stated Gaara will die when hes demon is realesed...The same I said by all that if Kyuubi out the Host dies.

    EVERY Host of a demon dies if the demon is going to be taken out...same goes for naruto.

    Saying the seal is weak Means Kyuubi will take over naruto's body...It cant just "Escape" He can However take over naruto completely and hell be Kyuubi in a human forum.

    no where is it stated(at least that i know of) that taking the seal out Kyuubi will be realesed completly.

    all we know 100% is if Kyuubi or Naruto die=They both die...

    Or, If kyuubi out by AL=Naruto will die.

    why else would sakura chan cry for naruto...she knows and all the ones protacting naruto know theres no way the kyuubi can be realesed without naruto being dead.

    Note: Unless they will or someone will use a super secret jutsu we dont know of later on in the series :p
     
  12. bluestrider25

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    Kakashi never said that. What he said was that Naruto was capable of 2-3x the amount without Kyuubi and with Yamato there keeping the Kyuubi in check and not taking over he would have atleast 100x as much.

    I will say that Naruto's own chakra is strong(not larger than 2-3x Kakashi but strong concentration) but it is not Kyuubi that hinders Naruto from using it...its himself. The best example is when fights Gaara and he summons that powerful chakra to summon all those clones. I do not see why people say that it's Kyuubi holding him back...its Naruto holding himself back he doesn't have his mind set until its time to "set the cards on the table" so to speak.

    I agree that the reason Naruto has high stamina is because of the Kyuubi because their chakras are constantly mixing which means he is getting more and more chakra ever so slightly during battle while others are just depleting theirs.

    If Naruto ever lost Kyuubi it better be at the end of the manga because that takes away from his character in my opinion! Thats his inner conflict and his diversity from other characters. Plus the best leader is usually the one whom at some point or another is viewed as a monster because they know how it feels to be seen as one and can relate to others. Yondaime was feared by all outsiders as the "Yellow Flash", Sandaime:God of Shinobi ect...
    even in our history thats true!

    I am about 95% sure back during the break in the chunin exam Jiraiya explained that there were two seals that the Yondaime put on Naruto. The death god seal of course to bind Kyuubi but then a second one that was even numbered to allow the chakra to mix.

    Then Oro put an odd elemental seal on top of the even to make it odd and create unbalance in the chakra flows.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
  13. lunarwolf

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    Ofcourse Naruto's stamina is related to Kyuubi.
    Stamina is related to chakra when it runs out ur out of it...kyuubi chakra allows him to stay in shape far more than all.

    For example after he deafted Neji...he only stood up and had stamina cuse of Kyuubi, cuse Neji blocked hes own chakra.
    When he deafted Neji everyone are amazed he can still run and stand with the crowd...that is kyuubi all way.
     
  14. Grrblt

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    Kyuubi is beneficial for the larger part. However it puts demands on Naruto's self control, and makes chakra control more difficult.
     
  15. bluestrider25

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    Yea thats why I said I agree. LOL! I was stating that to superflyninjaguy who said it was probably Kyuubi that takes up a lot of Naruto's stamina.


    I also agree that it is difficult for Naruto to have high chakra control becuase IMO he has so much chakra in his body and its hard for him to concentrate on focusing it. As it is Naruto most of the time has a hard time concentrating unless he is in battle or in the current training arc. Thats probably why Kakashi and Jiraiya say its better if Naruto learns form actually doing it then by hearing it.
     
  16. ycavan

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    ayup, in the Forest of Death, Oro added his own seal on top of Yondaime-Hokage's seal, making it uneven, thus causing the chakra mix to be disrupted. At that point, Naruto couldn't form chakra correctly. Ero-Sennin undid Oro's seal allowing Naruto to skim the water safely ( chakra molding resumed correctly )

    ...and it HAS been stated early on that Yondaime-Hokage's seal on Naruto is VERY different from Chiyo-baa's seal on Gaara. The seal on Naruto was meant to PROTECT Naruto from Kyubi, but allowing Naruto to convert Kyubi over time. We see the seal time and time again as a CAGE w/ the seal on the cage. THAT is Yondaime-Hokage's Fuuin. In order to go KN, Naruto's subconscious "drifts" into the cage and Kyubi take over.

    When, 'n I don't say IF here... When that cage is released, Kyubi will spring out of Naruto. At that point, Naruto will be a "normal" ninja w/ a VAST amount of chakra ( depending on when Akatsuki gets their hands on Kyubi ), but he will not die because of the extraction. The Akatsuki members may kill Naruto or they could invite Naruto into their group ( since Akatsuki is a mercenary group ), but the extraction itself won't kill Naruto.

    w/ Gaara... there IS no seal... he was a meld of the funky raccoon and himself. When Akatsuki extracted the Ichibi, they tore away a part of Gaara's soul.

    Finally, Kyubi is VERY much a bonus for Naruto... it's a "Deus Ex Machina" ( literally, God in the Machine )... pretty much anything Kishi wants Naruto to do anything that needs to consume massive amounts of chakra and no real way to explain it, use Kyubi. ;)
     
  17. bluestrider25

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    I can see where your coming from.



    I dont think it's Yondaime because I think that Sandaime was there at his death other wise how else would he have heard from Yondaime that he wanted Naruto to be seen as a hero.
    But I will admit that AL might be someone from Konoha especially from the latest chapter how he talks about the "will of fire". IF he is then my bet is on someone related to the 1st. I mean the anima statue is made of wood and yes I know it could be a summon but look at Yamato's summon of the poles to keep Kyuubi in check. If AL is related to the Shodai then I think it's Tsundae's little brother. Go back to that arc and it says that the body is so mangled up...Oro even makes a joke about it! So maybe her little brother was kidnapped and taught to love war or maybe he faked his own death.
     
  18. lunarwolf

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    You have some mistakes i belive:
    ===========================
    A. Hmm no where does it say if seal is broken Kyuubi will go out of naruto to its true physical forum.
    Its is More likely if seal is broken the Kyuubi will Take Over narutos body and mind...so itll be naruto fully Kyuubi.
    If the Kyuubi is completely out naruto will die-->unless u can find an old lady and a super strong chakra boy that will revive him like they did Gaara.

    B. As for the "protaction", The Kyuubi was sealed in a way to DEFANED NARUTO FROM LIFE DANGERS AND NOT THE KYUUBI ITSELF.
    If it was from the kyuubi itself a Normal Seal would have done it.
    You can clearly see the protaction on Naruto is for the Kyuubi to save him cuse if naruto dies he dies...that is way the fox from start till now protacts Naruto...

    When Jiraiya droped naruto from the cliff he stated:"now lets see if the seal was meant to protacet you"...which means THE KYUUBI IS SEALED IN A WAY HE CAN MAKE SURE HE AND NARUTO WILL SURVIVE.

    and not "protaction" from kyuubi.

    If naruto was to be protacted from Kyuubi...the kyuubi wouldnt be sealed in a way for naruto to contact it now would it?
     
  19. The Fourth Hokage

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    I think that there's a mystery still unrevealed regarding Naruto. Of course I believe that he's Yondaime, but that has nothing to do with this at all.

    Yamato made a point saying that there was something special about Naruto's chakra that was able to withstand Kyuubi. Also, he mentioned that Kyuubi was holding Naruto back. I think that at least one of the benefits that Naruto gets from Kyuubi (as far as we know) may actually just be Naruto himself. Kyuubi is bad for Naruto and everyone else, so I say no he shouldn't have it so we can see his true potential.
     
  20. lunarwolf

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    The biggest "????" around Kyuubi-Naruto is that Many including myself...dont know why the hell did the Kyuubi said to Sasuke not to Kill Naruto...was it becuse itll die as well, if so why threaten Sasuke if itll be dead???

    that is very strange...

    But maybe it is becuse Naruto is some one the Kyuubi is "SOME WAY" respacet for naruto handles the idea it is inside it pretty well.

    So i agree that there might also be something in Naruto(spaciel chakra or not)that links it to Kyuubi in some way...
     
  21. Akatsuki Leader Uzimaki

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    Turrin had a theory u should check it out but yea kyuubi help naruto out alot
     
  22. lunarwolf

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    every theroy about why kyuubi told not to kill naruto sounds intresting...

    but saying the Kyuubi chakra is a curse is not 100% true...note: I dont say i dont agree i just say it needs more of an over view :)..ofcourse the Kyuubi is evil...it is demonic...and it wants Naruto to loose control so it can take over him, But:
    It happens only when naruto gets hotblooded...and the more hes emotionly into things the seal is shaken and allows the Kyuubi to take over Naruto Cuse naruto allows it.

    It is shown when he came to face against Sasuke clrearly That naruto can say NO to kyuubi.

    with all its "bad" and "demonic" issues, Naruto now trains so he wont need kyuubi and true it does get in hes way.

    But if he can do it with Kakashi and the Kyuubi will still be in hes body...
    it means:
    Naruto stronger with hes own chakra+Kyuubi's healing abilites=one strong ninja.

    The fact is, even if naruto will stop being a ninja or wont need the Kyuubi cuse its evil, every cut or injoury will be healed without kyuubi taken over, cuse the red chakra leak will heal him.

    Ill prove my point:
    Deidara was told and knew that if Naruto will go hotblooded hell become Kyuubi, and thats what he wanted.
    Cuse if Naruto goes Kyuubi is out of focus cuse Kyuubi goes on a rampage as Naruto gets older.

    We also seen when Sasuke kicked hes ass, in Nartuo's mind that if naruto wishes he Can block the kyuubi, that what he was about to do Before Sasuke entered to have tea with mr.kyuubi in naruto's mind.

    So if hell stop being hot blooded(which he wont, since thats one of naruto's characteristic's, the Kyuubi can be a very powerfull and positive force.

    I guess the "save sasuke and be stronger than him" is effacting him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
  23. lunarwolf

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    Just saw the filler episodes of the anime ep207, and Kurenai Yuhi gave a very good example why having something as a Kyuubi Can be a gift.

    She said that a demon inside will and try to do anything to get over the body it is caged in, and over its soul...but if you can and you can tame the demox, it can be a very powefull gift.

    while she well actully the anime tells us, if reffared to the Kyuubi mainly as Kurenai uses mainly the Kyuubi-Naruto example.

    A proff that if u have a good chakra control and rational clear mind Naruto can use the Kyuubi as a gift.

    Sadly rational mind is not in Naruto's nature :) lol...as he is very much hot blooded and emotional.
     
  24. Aizen

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    downside: yamato said that he'd be stronger whitout it. GG
     
  25. Grrblt

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    No, he did not say that. GG.
     
  26. Futagokage

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    One thing that we have forgotten (well at least I) is that the nature of Naruto as Jinchuuriki is unique, because he is the unique case (i think) of a Bijuu sealed by Fuin Jutsu, so, This kind of seal work equally a the other kind?

    I am not assuming anything, just stating the facts.
     
  27. Grrblt

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    You are stating assumptions. There is no proof that Naruto is a unique jinchuuriki in regard to method of sealing.
     
  28. Arachnia

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    without it he would have been dead already so its good for him...it gives him enough power to match all but the strongest in Narutoverse
     
  29. Kuroro

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    Your arguments for this thread are better done than your previous one...reps to you! :cry

    Kyubi is both a curse, and a gift. After all, there is a price for strength, isn't there?

    Lately, in Part II, many bash Naruto for his seemingly lack of maturity, but that isn't true entirely. He's coming of age, learning new things, making mistakes, and learning the consequences for reckless decisions. Over all, it makes the manga seem more "realistic", a plus for me, but whatever...

    Naruto isn't entirely rational; he has Tsunade's quick-temper and the Sandaime's compassion, an interesting mix. However, you can't say that he isn't learning.

    Rescue Gaara Arc:

    --Naruto experiences the loss of a close friend once again. For Naruto, who has never known a family's love, considers his closest comrades his family.

    --Naruto begins to come to grasps what his fate will be since if the Kyubi is extracted, Naruto will die. Once again, not a pleasant moment when people are forced to realize their own mortality.

    --Once again, Naruto is called a "monster", and not soon afterwards, shows his anger when he goes KN2.


    A very stressful moment for Naruto, so there is no way that he could be entirely rational. Yet, once these kind of grueling emotions are experienced, it becomes easier for a person to accept them. Take Kakashi for example; he has lost just about all of his close companions and family, yet he can still show a smile. It's a great demonstration of emotional maturity, and Naruto is experiencing what every other shinobi must experience: The pain of losing your comrades in battle. It's a necessary thing for someone coming into age in a violent world.

    Grass Country Arc:

    --We see just how much Naruto hates Orochimaru, and you can't blame anyone for holding a strong grudge against that guy.

    --We see how scarred Naruto truly was by Sasuke when he goes KN4.

    --We see Naruto's lack of confidence in his own ability, and to his amazement, that he hurt Sakura.

    This arc further emphasizes Naruto's maturity. We learn that instead of trying to retain control over the Kyubi, he allowed the Kyubi to take over. Later on, he swears off using his Kyubi-power so hastily, which is a good thing since he doesn't want to be responsible for another tail-swiping at Sakura. Finally, in regard for Sasuke, next time I seriously doubt Naruto will be in a mood for talk since separating Sasuke from Orochimaru can only be done with brute force. Naruto is becoming more realistic, and in doing so, will be forced to do things that he detests, but necessary if he is to achieve his goals.


    It's a coming-of-age-journey in a sense. Naruto will always be a little quick-tempered, but he only shows true rage only under the most intense circumstances. As he blossoms, he'll gain the ability to finally put the Kyubi back into its cage, and once he can do that, I don't see no reason why he can't use the power without further drawbacks.
     
  30. lunarwolf

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    No one said naruto hasnt grown up, he is an emotional character...there for he allows the kyuubi to take over at times even in training cuse he wants to bring hes friends back toghetr again(aka the mighty sasuke kun lol).

    But, We clearly saw Naruto when he wants can say No to the Kyuubi.
    He was about to do it easly by rejacting the beast before Sasuke did it for him.

    He becomes every time weve seen so far Kyuubi, by getting emotional, there for he allows the kyuubi to swift him into the seal gates and take hes grap on it.

    Kyuubi isnt realy a curse unless he lets it to be...and what a curse it is when he does.

    But if he doesnt...comen this curse becomes the strongest gift in the narutoverse...

    Even if naruto blocking the Fox inside and doesnt need to use it, the healing abilites will allways remain...that alone with naruto's own chakra and abilites is amazing.

    That is way most cases Kyuubi is amazing, to bad its evil and will use Naruto's emotional state for its advantge.

    But emotional doesnt mean he never grows up...he has grown...but he also gets to emotional.

    My guess that becuse time is passing fast, and A.L and Gang and Sasuke-Ori body transfer..coming at him...who wouldnt get emotional.

    that is way hes turning Kyuubi fast, hes way more emotional than in part 1 and add to that hes poor chakra control(UNTIL KAKASHI FINISHIS TRAININGS)...and that u have actully a smart demon and not a stupid ass like Gaara did...than u get 4 tails and above :p

    and yes Gaara demon was low IQ stupid like a stone tailed beast :p well compared to Kyuubi that is :p
     
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