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lol wut? America isn't free?

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by Red, May 31, 2007.

  1. Red

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    yup, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't. before I'm pumped full of flames lemme explain my POV.

    well It got me thinking when my history lecturer told the class that Americans are not free because we are not independent. we are dependent on employers and manufacturers.

    lol wut? Red is spewing the same bullshit he spews all the time.

    Well If I buy a CD It's mine right? I have (supposedly) the freedom to do what I want with it right? No. I cant play it to an audience in a public setting, I cant make copies and give to a friend etc.

    Think of it that way, but on a much larger scale. Before you buy anything, purchase any services, you agree to it's terms, essentially restricting your use of said item.

    How does this spill over into real life? Well you know by now EVERYTHING (save food stuffs but I'm not too sure) has a set of restrictions you must agree to if you don't? you cant buy them and your life becomes infinitely more difficult.

    A good example is what happened to a WoW player. he was going for some business and left his account to a friend, after some complications the blizzard company locked his character and also banned him from their servers. why? he violated his terms of service by giving his account to some else to manage for him. think about all the monthly payments, the time and money he put to his avatar(digital counter part) and it all goes down the drain because, his terms of services stated that all the characters and things in the game belong to blizzard. you are only paying to play. lol wut?

    Another good example is the mass deletion of LJ. they honestly cant do shit, why? because they agreed to the terms before signing up. If a mod wants to come and ban me just because I'm awesome, I can't do jack. As long as your using someone else's services and products you'll have your freedom chipped away one agreement at a time.

    There is an alternative. start producing your own software hard ware and countless other products on your own. then and only then are you free.

    :nuts
     
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  2. Bear Walken

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    Of course it isn't. I found that out when I got my first paycheck from my very first job many years back. Taxes. :notrust
     
  3. DeepThought

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    The only true way to be free is to become a hippie; live out in the woods, make your own shelter, grow your own food, and do everything yourself.

    Even then, if you are part of a hippie commune, you are still dependant on others. To be truly free, you have to live alone.

    The point is, living in any society means that you are dependant on that society to maintain your lifestyle. If you have ever set foot on a sidewalk or road, you owe the government some money. You are biching about terms of service? Listen up, it's their game/software/idea and they have the right to run it how they choose. Go ahead and "make your own" fantasy video game.. I'd like to see that.
     
  4. Circe

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    That's because corporate systems suck. :notrust
     
  5. DeepThought

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    Capitalism is the cornerstone of a free-economy. If the government ran everything, it would be alot worse.
     
  6. Circe

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    I blame the Socialists.
     
  7. Serena_Ahnell

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    Nothing is/was ever free. It's all conditional, it is just left unspoken/understood a lot of the time.

    The only thing we really own is our lives, but then that can be taken away too. =/ I guess the world is all about impermanence.

    We can make all sorts of choices. Anything from volating terms of agreement to mass murder, but that doesn't mean someone is free from consequence. (Although that bit about the WoW player is bullshit, it IS your account. They're just being money whores ontop of other things.)

    It's like walking on a web, and no matter what you're going to be affecting something else and you invariably depend on others, whether someone wants to or not, to progress in life.
     
  8. Zhongda

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    Facism makes sense!
     
  9. Bishop

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    The phrase "Free country" refers to being able to travel from state to state without being charged or asked for documents. Read the history of Bill of rights.
     
  10. DemonAbyss10

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    Its not free to enter new jersey from pennsylvania -_- stupid toll booths -.-

    Well, If ya want a truly free society, i say we murder all the lawyers, then nothing can impede on freedom as much as it used to ^^
     
  11. masamune1

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    You can't view freedom in such absolute terms. Everyone is free to ome extent, though some are more free (or more capable of enjoying their freedom) than others. You can't say "America is'nt free" because there are different levels of freedom, same with everywhere else.
     
  12. Purgatory

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    Freedom no longer frees you.
     
  13. Oneironaut

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    If you take that definition of freedom, no one can possibly be free, excepting those of us that are self-contained universes. Our lives, for example, are contingent upon the intake of oxygen. You'll never be "free" of that dependency. In the same way, it's impossible to be free of dependencies in the society you live in.

    I think you were flamed, not because your ideas are wrong, but because they're unthinkably obvious. Yes, there are laws. Yes, there are repercussions for certain actions, man-made or otherwise. Shall we move on to whether those repercussions are just?

    Whether we are politically free is a much more interesting discussion.
     
  14. AbnormallyNormal

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    yeah i agree with you OP. very astute
     
  15. Anjo

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    Hell no America ain't free. Look at the prices at fuckin' Wal Mart.D=
     
  16. GrimaH

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    If you don't want to be bound to the terms and conditions of a contract, don't sign. It's not like you're forced to do it anyway.
    There's no such thing as a completely free benefit.
     
  17. AbnormallyNormal

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    yes, i think contracts are just symbols of our mutual interdependence on each other, they incentivise cooperation societally, even though it can seem like less liberty its probably overall wise
     
  18. Ichiban-nin

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    Freedom, a fickle thing but yours now for 3 easy payments of $9.95! But wait, theres more! Call within the next 10 minutes to receive a side package of justice absolutely free!

    (Justice package incurs an additional handling fee).
     
  19. Saria19

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    You make some very good points, but here are some more to take into consideration:

    Agreements on ridiculous terms
    Not being able to talk back to a police officer (especially when they are trying to abuse their power)
    Freedom of privacy (everything is monitored)
    True freedom of the press, media is controlled by the government
    The hammering of the farmers in todays market
    Contracts that violate moral judgment and ethics (overuse of force in self-defense)
     
  20. AbnormallyNormal

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    well i think basically there is the ideal of freedom which is unattainable in practice and then there are various legal fictions we pretend exist so we can say we live in a free country whatever that even means
     
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