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[Manga Spoilers]Further Storyline / Plot discussions

Discussion in 'Featured Manga of October 2010' started by Yak, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. Yak

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    This is a thread for the people who are a bit more knowledgable on the manga but regardless, everyone is welcome.

    PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS FOR FURTHER STORYLINE DISCUSSIONS.

    EVENTS EXCEEDING VOLUME 9/10 WILL NOT BE WRAPPED IN SPOILERS SEPARATELY. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.





    THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING. FROM HERE ON ITS HEAVY SPOILER-TERRITORY.










    Okay, now that the disclaimer is up I think we have enough security to discuss this savely without anyone getting us by the balls. :p





    What do you think will happen next? This month Hagi supposedly enters business again and we should get a new chapter. Last time we saw DS finally putting Uriel's rage to an end, his Augoeides crumbled and they faced off at what seemed to be Uriel's core. Got any ideas whether Uriel will or will not survive this encounter? Darsh didn't seem to be too much amused and they exchanged a few last hits but then he stopped, ripped himself open (wtf) and Amrael came forth.

    Will that be able to somehow save Uriel's ass or will he be written out of the main storyline? Also, what's going to happen next? We are back in the real world after all. Reuniting with the Riders of Havoc and war preparation?

    Your guesses?
     
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  2. Aldric

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    I honestly don't know how Hagi is going to handle the stuff with Uriel. At this point I can only see two possibilities:

    -Uriel dies and disappears from the story, however given the fact DS went through the trouble to save his sister I highly doubt it's going to end tragically like that

    -DS saves his ass with his newly acquired Adam of Darkness powers (come on you know he got another absurd powerup) and everything's back to normal

    As for what's going to happen next, it's hard to say. Of course everything is probably going to culminate in a war involving everyone including Ancient Gods against the Demons, but how? What is the Lunar Seal, what about the breach of the Contract if DS choses the side of Light etc etc

    One thing is for sure though, next chapter(s) should see DS reuniting with Gara, and that in itself is something I can't wait to see. It's bound to be hilarious.
     
  3. Kamen Rider Ryoma

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    That is what makes me doubt if DS kills Uriel or not.

    I mean, everyone (humans, angels and demons) thought DS went off the deep end when he ate Konron. But now it seems he actually heard Gabriel's plea to save Amurel.
     
  4. Yak

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    Yesh, this is what I have been so sceptical about too. DS saves Amrael but Uriel goes down the gutter? I can't really imagine it. If anything, what kind of importance does Amrael have to the further storyline. Sure, DS kinda revived her or collected her remaining memories and energy but it will probably go as Aldric said - either some new Adam of Darkness powers will bring Uriel back, or as I would prefer it because it makes imo more sense - Amrael sacrifices her own life to save her brother for once (lulz) and not always the other way round. This way we have her rather useless role (sorry, Am-chan fans =P ) outta the way and Uriel can be back and kick ass and hopefully gets along with DS enough to not jump him every 2 seconds.

    I really want Uriel to stick around, he is a fascinating character, plus fighting DS is good and nice, but as a Seraphim I'd prefer it if he kicked some Devil's ass. Preferable hit it out with his supposed rival Belial. Come on, its almost canon now that those two have some sort of connection, he was even seen in one of those memory flashbacks from Uriel/Amrael. Various scriptures have him listed as the Attorney of Hell and he has an affinity with soil/earth, this is so similar to Uriel's role its not even funny anymore. If those two don't fight I will be disappointed. Same for Raph and Asmodeus.


    For the further events, yeah, DS settling down somewhere with everyone in the ruins of Metallicana and meeting up with Gara seems inevitable. God, I so hope we get to see that soon. It will be hilarious when those two argue again and see that they haven't changed a bit. :LOS

    Also, they need to take care of the people who came with MacPain, Shera and Ba Sori. Speaking of it, Shera's in the mountains stuck with Conrone's sister. I don't think Hagi will have another lengthy fight, I just think that Raphael who is still missing, will suddenly swoop in and Hagiwara gives him some nice showings. Powerlevel-wise he is on par with Uriel after all, so he should be able to kick that bitch's ass quick unless she too has Void Howling which I doubt.


    After that, the following chapters could have some scenario changes back to the alliance in the huge tree of life base where some negociations will be hold. We might see some new races and get info. Also, a cut-back to Lars doing stuff would be nice or at least to Kal and Ney who enter the realm of the giants.

    And with that we might have volume 26/27 already covered again. XD
     
  5. Kamen Rider Ryoma

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    As if...:hehee

    That one I agree with. Though, there is still something quite important keeping DS and the Seraphim apart.

    You know, God's order to kill all of humanity.



    Oh yeah, I liked those parts in 24. I really hope we see more of that. I'd also like to see more of what the Adam of Light is currently doing.

    And the next three or four years.:nuts

    By the way, how do you like my pic as section title?:hehee
     
  6. Yak

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    :C




    Seeing how crazily things unfolded since volume 19 for the Seraphim they got pretty far astray from their task anyway. I hope they get their deserving role back and don't remain bystanders for now but I don't think they will immediatelly start killing humans again.

    I see some arguments coming up but Michael will probably for now focus on killing the demons and devils who are probably about to swarm in. They can deal with the humans later, heck they might even come to realize that the humans and half-human tribes are a force to be reckoned with in this war and that not all of them are bad and evil.


    Chilling on the beach with Ingweil and Joshua, drinking Batida de Coco. :LOS
    Nah, but seriously, I really hope we see more of what's going on at other places in the world. And that Abi is doing on the moon. And if all Generals and Samurai are alive again or just a couple.

    I hope not :uwah

    I likedz it :LOS
     
  7. Parallax Retired Staff

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    I was wondering at the end of vol. 25 we see DS fly out after his fight with Uriel do you think he was able to gain more power and be able to fight stronger opponents like Belzebub? And is there another possibility of a time skip?
     
  8. Yak

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    Most likely. I think a battle with Beelzebub will be inevitable since it's Beelze's declared goal to get rid of DS, for whatever reason he has. I reckon that DS has a new kind of power now, possibly his powers as the Adam of Darkness have fully manifested and its likely he won't rely on the Judas Pain and his Majin form anymore. We will see about that.

    I don't know about another timeskip, if we get one I reckon it to be a rather short one, several weeks or months at best but nothing in the category of years.
     
  9. Aldric

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    I doubt there will be another timeskip. And yes, it's almost certain DS got another powerup, preferably the last one. I'm also interested in the fact he has one angel wing and one demon wing now, maybe he became something else than a "traditional" Adam of Darkness and draws his power both from light and darkness now.

    And I still want to see the former Riders of Havoc come back to the main story :C

    Do it fagg... I mean do it Hagi
     
  10. Yak

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    Repost of what I said in the OBD recently:

    Speaking of which, I think we can now more or less be sure that DS was artificially created by the 10 Sages of Europe and that his 'design' or parts of his DNA come from Satan/Satanel. They both look incredibly similar, they have the same kind of whacky nuts attitude, are horribly brutal, arrogant, powerful, have the affinity to magic and fire and simply have the mindset of a conqueror.

    Additionally, at least since Conrone we know that the 10 Sages have been in contact with the devils and Hell, so its very plausible. Also, Abigail said in volume 13 or 14 (not exactly sure) that before the great catastrophe 400 years ago there has been no magic around and many of the creatures in Bastard!! didn't exist, only the advanced science and technology humans had.

    It has been confirmed that the Sages created magical weapons and they are also the creators of Anthrax. During the second Armageddon which occured 400 years ago when Anthrax ran wild, I assume that Satan was behind that, too. Why?

    Simple. The 10 Sages are megalomanic bastards. They wanted the power to meddle with creation. They are confirmed to have changed history, be responsible for creating the many monsters and magical artefacts in the Bastard!!-world of today. Latest chapters in the manga show a backflash of Satanel and a child-Uriel sitting together and Satanel shows him something that I assume causes him to get kicked out of Heaven later: He meddles with creation; in his hands form a miniature galaxy.

    Its reasonable to assume that the 10 Sages who were scientists got into contact with the occult powers. The Unused Edition of Bastard!! which shows the events directly following after volume 18 hint that they were inspired to fuse science with magic by the German Cabbalist genius Dita Dax (see bonus chapter in volume 19) who invented first tools to measure soul activity.

    I now assume that somehow contact to Hell was established because Satan needed someone who could hold his legacy in human form - The Adam of Darkness. We know about the contract Satan has with the Just Christian God; if God is allowed to send his human representative down to Earth it is only fair that Satan can do that, too.

    Now, my further assumptions lead me to believe that the trade went as followed: The 10 Sages experimented with technology and magic. Among the successful experiments were Anthrax, DS and the Dragon Knight. Armaggeddon 2 ensues, everything's destroyed when the Anthrax runs amuck, DS is finally awakened in the events of things (this can be seen in the beginning of volume 14 in a flashback where DS awakens from the ruins, still connected to his birth-machine; also in volume 13 the Sages laugh at DS still thinking he is merely a human and that he should call them 'parents'.)

    The consequence is known, most of the world was destroyed, only few humans survived who settled down in the area where the 4 Kingdoms stand now - Metallicana, Iron Maiden, etc. The Sages took their chance and used what they got from the devils and Satan: They shaped the ruined world after their desires and while humans were thrown back to a medieval state, monsters started appearing everywhere and the power of magic flowed. DS, who basically started out during this time already had a natural affinity to use magic, thanks to the experiments of the Sages and Satan's influence. Its no surprise he became the most powerful wizard, he was MEANT to.

    Yeah, we can assume that Satan is actually DS' FATHER. It's also hinted at by the fact that DS is later confirmed to be the Adam of Darkness and that the Anthrax originally was titled 'EVE 01', just like the Dragon Knight Lucifer is titled 'L 01'. It's all there, its been a long-scaled project of the forces of Hell and the humans to have DS created artificially, he is the brother to the Anthrax who was meant to be a weapon...

    ... and it was stated that originally Anthrax was created to bring peace to the world but now I think this could all have been a lie and a clever ploy of the 10 Sages. Anthrax never was meant to bring peace. It didn't run crazy by mere coincidence. I think now that it was planned. Anthrax was meant to cause the 2nd Armaggeddon and waste the planet so that the Sages could rebuilt it to their liking. Satan profited from it, too, many souls went to Hell and created reinforcements. And here comes the clue:

    Not only that. DS was most likely created to be Satan's Adam for the impending war with the forces of Light which soon would be swarming down to punish the remaining humans for their deeds of creating Anthrax (which actually happened as we can see in some flashbacks). Additionally, DS was also compatible with the Dragon Knight, basically serving as its 'battery' and power generator, using their combined power to get rid of Anthrax who was useless after her task of laying waste to the Earth had been accomplished.

    And it basically went down like that, DS most likely was the first Dragon Knight who defeated Anthrax, sealed her (this is hinted in volume 14 where he screams at a half-dead Anthrax 'You won't return another time!') and then flew away. Satan came, tried to start his Armaggeddon and win it but he lost the battle a second time. Maybe because DS was too exhausted to be of use. Or something else might have gone wrong, this is a puzzle piece I still lack and haven't figured out.


    I could probably rant on with this for a while but I feel like I'm losing my own thread here and don't remember where I was actually getting. But all those events unfolded throughout the many flashbacks, sidestories and small hints in the manga, its quite awesome. And DS basically being Satan's son rocks because if you keep that in mind you see lots of similarities. Now it has only to be cleared up who would be the antipode to DS, the Adam of Light. Some people have noticed that the boy has an eerie resemblance to Lushe RenRen but I don't know how that would work out for now, with Lucifer's astral body destroyed and Lushe RenRen's body being permanently DS' host now.
     
  11. Aldric

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    This is a well thought out theory.

    I just wonder what's the role played by Tatsuro Ueza, the japanese guy who appears in the vol 19 flashback. He was called the "Adam 1" and he kinda looks like a DS with short black hair. Plus there's an illustration by Hagi showing DS groping both his sister and his blonde friend. Quite confusing.
     
  12. Fang

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    Talk more about Porno Diana.
     
  13. Yak

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    I sorta thought he looks a bit more like a really grown-up Lushe RenRen. I always thought he kinda was the Adam of Light of his generation and DS was the Adam of Darkness of the same generation. It's just that DS kinda remained the Adam of Darkness over all those 400 years starting off from that point in 2008 when Anthrax obliterated everything for the first time.

    Then we had several versions of the Adam of Light, possibly all with incarnations of Lucifer, which also included Lushe RenRen at some point.

    Ironically, after DS (not knowing yet that he was the Adam of Darkness) got defeated in the Great Golem War and got his body destroyed, his soul was sealed into Lushe RenRen which also contained the reincarnated soul of Lucifer. This way DS was greatly influenced and possibly both the souls of DS who is Satan's son and Lucifer mixed and formed the Dark Schneider we currently know - a more kind, more caring DS. This could also explain why in his new form he both has a black demon wing and a black angel wing as opposed to two black demon wings.

    I guess this tiny little 'mistake' made by Yoko's father and the old fortune teller (who both sealed DS into Lushe after the Great Golem War) greatly screwed up Satan's plans because it resulted in a more independent and 'positive' DS. Had he remained the cold and cruel Dark Schneider as he was originally, he might as well have joined Satan's forces in volume 18 and helped obliterate the angels as the Adam of Darkness as it was his original purpose. The fight with Porno Diane wouldn't have happened and all the Demon Kings would still have their pieces of the Judas Pain.

    Quite confusing but I think it sorta makes sense. :zaru
     
  14. Aldric

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    With the way things are going I'll probably have to pander to the huffing and puffing crowd and start a HOTTEST BASTARD!! GIRL thread to get more activity anyway
     
  15. Fang

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    Blame that on Lordorchimarusama2121212112.
     
  16. AbnormallyNormal

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    its hard to comment a lot when there arent any english scanlations for most of the manga :/

    i hope we get to see 'god' soon since we saw 'satan'. i guess the theme of this overall storyline is like the traditional heavy metal idea of satanism = masculine rebellion, embrace of yourself, pridefulness. sort of the idea of satanism is thinnking of your own ego as more important than the world as a whole or something. like thats why the 10 sages of europe felt they had the right to do whatever they wanted with "gods creation" and hence they essentially became agents of the devil. i doubt the bastard!! verse will ever go back to the super high tech world the 10 sages tried to build. somehow at the end it will probably remain intact, but "medieval". and i would guess DS lives through the story, but at the end he'll be the king of hell or something
     
  17. Yak

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    There's something I've been pondering about and I'd like to discuss it with you here. Two possible scenarios:

    First off, the power of the Adam of Light is resurrection. We know this much from Lars' words. What concerns me about this whole issue is, that apparently everyone or at least most people who have been resurrected by the AoL (lol) have also become rather close and determined followers of him. Even someone like Lars who fought against the Angels with all his passion.

    Now, it could be that the Adam of Light is just a bloody cool dude and really likeable, then its not a big issue but if its the second option, this could pose a problem: Its part of his amazing power set to win people over to his side. " The power of Christ compells you ", indeed.

    Keeping this theory in mind, do you think that it could cause the Riders of Havoc to split up, even? Lars already seems to trust him and Lars also is involved with Kal who is the Prophet Elijah. Is it possible that Lars and Kal will side with the Adam of Light? And what about Ney? Sure, she believes strongly in DS but if its an actual power, might she too fall for the AoL's abilities?

    Gara and Abigail seem more like the guys who are loyal to DS, no matter what, simply because Abigail finds DS fascinating to some extend and can relate to him on the same level as a wizard, age- and knowledge-wise. Gara is in it for the lulz, nothing the AoL could provide more than DS already does, plus they kinda are friends.


    Now, another scenario, even if the first one doesn't happen: Whether DS or the AoL will meet as enemies or allies in the future, I could currently see the AoL being the only one who might bring back the old Riders of Havoc, an opportunity Aldric, me and many others have hoped for ever since we learned about them. They kinda were evil bastards so their loyalty is questionable but for this case, see scenario one again - if its within his power set to compell people, even those 4 might be won over to the good guy's side. Or they just follow it because they think living is cool again and dying against angels or devil sucks.


    Any opinions on this?
     
  18. Aldric

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    Kinda hard to say really. I think the AoL (lol indeed) has a great part of responsability in the fact DS companions are still alive. I think he resurrected the Riders of Havoc (because I honestly don't see how they could have survived King Crimson Glory's crash AND being attacked by the demon forms of the 10 Wisemen) and maybe even infused them with the strength of the Original Men.

    So I don't see DS being flat out hostile to him for that reason, it's more likely he'd be grateful actually. Plus the AoL has the advantage of being human, and DS hate was only against angels and demons that he lumped together as the same "race". And even that was to an extent only as he still saved Amrael.

    So more than a fight I think a common front is more likely. Plus it'd fit with what was said in vol 23, that if DS chose the side of Light the Contract would be broken or something like that, which may very well be one of the most important plot points.
     
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