Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by Naplesballa, Oct 16, 2006.
Many are gonna flame you or possibly neg rep you.
Not me ^_^.
I've been having a similar thought. After all, all the information we get about that entity called "God" came from other humans that told other humans and so on, going on so many generations we might never know the origin of it.
The only thing that is left is faith... Believing. It's enough for most people, not for me. When I look at all religions, deities are always different ! And somehow, they all correspond to the culture of the people that worship them. Deities are actually created. The first men have given holy properties to the sun and the moon and the animals and nature surrounding them. Why ? Because at that time, they wanted to know how things worked but lacked the tool to study them. All that was left was imagination and theorization, based on observations, but leading them to false conclusions, because they couldn't make scientific studies like we do now.
Then, from that starting point, every kind of beliefs started to bloom anywhere you had Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Example of imagination leading to presumably false answers with religion : Why are there different languages in the world ? The Old Testament tells us of the Babel Tower. Yet, it makes no sense when using logic and according to the latest studies on languages. Languages are thought to be born... out of cheer randomness and different factors. Their seems to be no "Holy influence" (source : article in a french science paper, Science&Vie for October)
Is there a God or not ? I have no idea. My personnal stance is that the universe seems to work like good oiled mechanism and that it might have some sort of origin that doesn't really rely on chance. I just refuse to follow doctrines that are told and written down by other humans, some of them being intolerant to questionning and doubt, suppressing the magnificient work of THINKING by yourself. I'm not saying religions are right or wrong, just that I don't agree with them on many points.
i've run through a few articles on this before.
simple, a being can never come into existence just by having infinite amount of people believung is exists, because it just doesnt exist.
but people, aside from the urge to believe in a superior being, we also tend to be curious towards reasoning things. why do we get hungry, how was the universe created bla bla bla. there must be a reason behind it, and we'll just shut up after we find the reasons, with proof.
But, if god were really made up, and there's no one can really prove either way, then suit yourselves. but if there really is, and still you are bothered by these questions, believing wouldnt hurt...aside from making a point on where you stand, you also fulfill the human need, regardless you are a religious or just a casual believer.
We created God in the way that mankind spread the myth about it and that myth remained to this very day, and most likely will remain in some time ahead too...
At least it's my thought on this..
Mmm. If we accept that humans created the Christian diety by believing in it, then we must also accept that humans have created many other gods over the years by believing in them.
What happens when an immortal being is called into existence and then forgotten, no longer needed by it's former worshippers? Makes you wonder if Ra, Zeus, and Shiva are screaming in the endless dark.
i see where you're coming from, but eternal oblivion is worse than death, there HAS to be something more
There has to be? Why? As I'm sure you've heard before, life isn't fair. What about life says there HAS to be something more?
Honestly, such a belief is just a fear of death. People fear oblivion. They fear being forgotten. They fear just not existing anymore. So they assert it can't happen. There has to be something else. But the truth is, there probably isn't. You'll die, you'll end, and you'll be forgotten. And that's it.
But most people find a lot of trouble accepting that. Understandably, I might add. It's not an easy thing to accept. I find trouble with it, myself. But there's no point in willful delusion.
Its an interesting idea, which incidently i've heard before, but it has no evidence of any kind to back it up and according to the laws of physics, no its not really possible.
Stranger things have happened. Spontaneous existence failure.
There is a short story by Isaac Asimov that relates to this topic. It relates to humanity's transcendence of their bodies through their expansion and evolution with the help of technology.
There's a twist at the end too. I highly encourage you all to read it.
Here it is: The Last Question.
The end was intresting I have to admit......
Yeah. The best part for me was that I kind of predicted what was going to happen.
Anyone who's seen Evangelion would agree with me. Think of the Instrumentality Project...
I liked Small Gods by Terry Pratchett...
Or maybe you're on crack
That short story made more sense than the whole Evangelion delirum psycho loaded freak show.
Heh, be that as it may, the whole "becoming a god by combining the souls of mankind" really made me think of The Instrumentality Project. Perhaps it and this story share the same influences? Who knows.
In any case, it kinda makes you think if that kind of thing is possible.
Well, anything is possible. In theory, it's possible for every single atom that makes up the Earth to suddenly decide not to exist. It's not likely, but there are odds for it, so it could happen.
I'm a christain dont get me wrong.....but this same thought crossed my mind Ifully inderstand where you are going.....
Yeah, this is exactly what made me become an atheist. I just started to think about mankind and how much we like to have a handle on things and that we are afraid of what we don't know. I just sat there for a while and came up with the conclusion that we created god.
Although I am Muslim by origin(as in great-granparents), it is pretty clear that humankind needs something or someone to worship, something to strive for and possibly(but not likely!!) even reach. We have idols because we want to be like them. God/s is/are similar in that without human belief their existence would be lacking. Also religion in itself has evolved alongside human thought and understanding. Where science is confounded there is room for God.
The same Asimov who wrote The Naked Sun? I love his work, and the paradoxes from which he inspired the film iRobot.
The movie Bicentennial Man (you know, Robin Williams as a robot) is also based on a story by Asimov. I think it's called "The Positronic Man".
Best science fiction writer in existence.
It may seem somewhat skeptical of me, but I truly can't grasp individual or even collective belief being able to create existence, life, actual organic material. Sure we are able to shape our perception of reality through our beliefs but is what we see always real? That is what makes perception so unique, its subjectivity. Thus we cannot claim to be able to define reality, only what we see or what we want to see.
As far as thought influencing the creation of tiny particles or creatures, it could be possible, but is it truly feasible given the surprising lack of evidence of such a thing happening. IMO, I've always taken the "mind over matter" phrase as proof of willpower conquering physical shortcomings not in the very literal sense that mind creates matter.
And he was a science dork. That gives him a +10 to awesomeness-credibility.
I suppose The Last Question made a spin on creationism too in its unique plot, and it would open a whole new debate which applies intelligent design in a manner of which scientists could truly realise the practicality of faith.
Seeing as the model computer AC is similar to God's recreational ability/immortality/ever-lasting existence one could easily produce a thesis that God recreats himself. Being a divine we have created from our own imagination, or percieved with our own senses, he still is similar to any basic computer matrix. Ruddy brilliant, isn't it?
We didn't create God as a being, we created the theory of him.
I think we made the story of god to explain how man came to be. Much like the Greeks did with their gods, and countless other religions and civilizations.
I understand were the thread starter is going wif this...I mean our minds are real so therefore carry an effect so why cant the wishful thinking of millions of people bring about the being of god?(I am blaspheming very much now god forgive me)
Yes you are right that lack of evidence is hardly a reason to deny the plausability of a concept/idea. However what I'm saying is that logically such a statement(thought creating being) is unlikely and given the current level of scientific prowess that society wields,it is impossible to verify or reject said theory. As for your God example, the only thing certain for a human in life is death and given a human's susceptibility to emotional regret or fear over death, they have no choice but to believe in a being that promises hope beyon death, that promises that there is something else at the end of the green mile. People want to believe in God because the reality of Earthly life is
unforgiving. Either that or indoctrination.
I tend to agree with your view of reality but physical reality isn't influenced so much by the meta-physical(thoughts, willpower, beliefs etc.). It is
however influenced by the actions that are undertaken once a change of thought, belief etc. is implemented. I'm going to use a very vulgar example but whatever. Man sits at home, pondering the meaning of existence, achieves a spiritual breakthrough and realizes x element is cause of existence. Man tells friends at work about his theory, it becomes widely accepted by the group of friends. Friends tell relatives and so on. Community takes up newfound dogma and practises it. Dogma spreads and new converts are made. A new religion/ philosophy is born. We can conclude that this alternation of mass reality was in fact inspired by thought but was only implemented through collective action. Perception inspires change in reality but isn't otherwise responsible for the change.
(P.S. Is there a debate club in the Forums? School is somewhat dead when it comes down to debates.)
I essence, we did. If somebody had not thought of it, we wouldn't believe or think of it. Its not like the existence of a religous god is self evident