1. Hello Guest,

    The Konoha Country Club is hosting its first Poetry Competition!
    The theme of the competition is "What does friendship mean to you?"

    If you are interested in entering, please click here.

    -- NarutoForums Staff
    Dismiss Notice


  2. The second Alley Banner contest is finally here! Come check it out here for details
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Stop Scrolling!
    Attention - When discussing new chapters of an anime or manga, please use a source from the official list of approved sources. If you would like to contribute to the list, please do so in the suggestions section.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. If you write blogs about the current anime season (for linking) or like to add descriptions / impressions on certain series and like to add them to our wiki, then send us a ticket.
    Dismiss Notice

  6. Give NF the love she deserves! Join the NF-chan drawing contest and draw NF as NF-chan now!
    Earn some prizes... and maybe hugs and kisses from the forum herself?!
    CLICK HERE
    Dismiss Notice
  7. [​IMG]

    House of Uzumaki has a new banner contest! Please, check here for details and PM your vote.

    Dismiss Notice

MEDICAL and PSICHOLOGICAL FACTS in the case of obito-tobi

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by daynzka, May 28, 2007.

  1. daynzka New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Reputation:
    this theory is about the manga itself. I will supose that the anatomy and phisiology of characters is based on real human bodies, and get conclusions out of that. All the thinks thath i will say about the human nervous sistem are facts that were discovered on the past century... just one or two things came from current research in neuropsichology and neurophisiology.

    (i must say i can add the references to prove everything i will say... but i won´t be able to get all of them in english since, i´m not a native user of english and most of the current research in my field is been made in rusia and france, and people there don´t really nee care about translating their articles to any language... they are the source, after all)

    First, one the right side of obito was crushed... now, if u remember your anatomy lessons, the human body is not simetrical. we don´t have pairs of organs for every metabolical function. Even if the hearth of obito wasn´t crushed, his limb might have. the liver is a noble tissue... if only the 20% of it remains functioning, a human body has chances of continue alive. Anyway, there´s a cover that keeps it asolated from the environment... let alone the veins and arteries. this is almost a certain death if the stomach or intestine were perforated; the bacteria living there are extremeli nocive to the liver; they can literally "eat" a person´s hole liver in some few weeks, being the treatment very complicated and the chances of succeed would have benn very low since most of the tissue would have been damaged and useless.

    second, the pancreas is placed also in the right side of the body. t pancreas segregates a lot of enzymes that are needed to process much of the meals. without that enzimatic machinery working, much of the meals would not only be impossible to digest and absorb, but many of them would quikly rot inside the stomach and intestines... the only way to conserve someone alive in that situation is keeping that person beeing feeded intravenous route... as long as the person lives. pancreas is not as noble as theliver... can´t be repaired easily and, as a chemical factory, even little unbalances can cause it stop working.

    --things sayed to this point can be found in any general anatomy-phisiology manual---

    And third (wich is my speciality, and where we definitely have much more to discuss), the nervous system.

    since obito is still concious after he was crushed, we must asume that the cerebral stem and cerebelum (i´m translating the terminology we use in spanish) were not damaged... he also moved his right hand (that´s what u can assume reading the manga), so we can definitely say the nerves that are inside the spine were not cut at least on the dorsal area.

    now... the right side of your brain controls (and feels) the left side of your body, and vice-versa. so... if the right side of his brain was efectively crushed, it would have stoped working on that very moment, and he wouldn´t have been able to move his left hand... that would have been IMPOSIBLE.

    Also, it was shown that he was looking at the girl... and guess what. the control of the movements of the muscles that turn and focuses eyes is also crossed (contralateral controlled). If his visual-control centres in the right side were damaged, he wuouldn´t have been able to look at her in the eyes, since that was the only eye that could see her....

    now, let´s supose his eyes were pointing there just by chance. He was talking to her just after the rock smashed him... this is another no-simetrical function. The circuits that allow u to use a grammar are placed only on the left hemisphere, if you are a right-handed person (wich is highly probable since 85-95% of the people are, depending on the population and the sample), or spread on both emispheres if you are left-handed. On the contrary, the circuits that allow u to understand the intentions and the emotions in the speech of the people u´re talking with (and give your own emotions and intentions to your speech), are placed in the right side of your brain almost exclusively.

    if the right side of obito´s brain would habe been smashed, he wouldn´t have been able to understand her sadness and worrying about him, nor have been able to ever shout at her. those are "emotional" functions of language (let alone pragmatics and the gramatical diferences between the structure of a declarative, interrogative, imperative forms)

    hmmm... and, of course, we have to asume that (if his right ear was obturated), he was listening to rin (now i remember her name) with his left side... now you must supose what i´m going to say... (a crossed nerve again)

    the evidence shows in many ways the right emisphere of his brain wasn´t that damaged...it was working, and preserved at least a bunch of it´s functions, wich is NOT posible when the tissue is losing oxigene (due to "cutted"? "severed"? arteries or veins), or is traumatized in any ways.

    ---what i sayed to this point can be read at any neuropsichology manual, any---

    So, it is posible that, IF he survived, he wuould still be able to do a lot of things. his brain was working, and he would be able to move at least his left arm (we don´t know about the leg, because the nerves in the spine could have been cut in a lower place). now, the left side of your both eyes sends the information that your retina recieves to the right occipital cortex, in the right emisphere of your brain and vice-versa... so, if the right side of his brain would have been damaged, he only would have the left field of view of every eye. Plus, his left eye was extirpated. he would have been deprivated of 3/4 of his total field of view, remaining only the left side of his right eye, suposing it would have been somehow saved... or completely blind if both eyes were lost (wich we don´t know, since it seems that his left brain was undamaged)

    the kind of lesion i´m talking about is quite common; it´s frecuently seen in people that had vascular problems involving or damaging the brain, independently of the damage caused to the motor areas. It is not posible to determine wether a person has this type of damage or not, since it appears to them that their visual field is still complete. the brain itself is what is damaged, so it doesn´t realize that has been partialy blinded. in this case, you can never tell if the person is hemi-blinded until you examine the subject and apply some tests.. wich rin would never have had time to apply.

    it has been sugested that if obito suffered a severe trauma in the head(medical sense of the word), he might have developed a kind of mental retardation.... well, that´s only the imagination of the person that wrote it. The brain is organized in circuits and processors for many different funtions... local damage is the most common, and local damage destroys specific functions, not general inteligence (unless that´s in the prefontal lobes, in wich case, the lost of one of them is not equal to devastation: that IS a simetrical function; you have two prefrontal lobes, and if a person loses one, the other can develop the function itself, mabye using more time, but not necesarily less eficiently)

    --you can read OLIVER SACKS in english to learn more about this, there are a lot of books of him that are easy to read---

    Almost to end, it´s been also sugested that if obito survived, he might have developed two diferent personalities and.. blablabla. there´s no way to supose that´s right, but there are some few facts that make it very unprobable. To develop two personalities, you need a metafisical and wierd thing to be happening to you (like naruto having the kyubbi inside him, as a diferent mind), or be schizophrenic. schizophrenia can be triggered as the result of an experience like that, but it is just IMPOSIBLE to develop schizophrenia if you do not have the biochemical gap that causes it to develop. that gap is contained in your genes, wich never change due to a experience. And those genes are inherited. then, the only way to determine if obito could have the genetical gap is reviewing his family tree and searching for schizos... if none found, very, very, very imporbalbe.

    --you can read Genome, of matt ridley to know more about this. if you are really interested in genetics of behavior, look for Plomin-

    I must take a decition now... ¿do the characters in naruto have a real anatomical and phisiological basis?... well, i must say i can´t answer that, but i believe that´s really probable, since even de circulatory sistem of the chakra behaves like the nervous sistem (it can´t easily be repaired if damaged, suffers a lot if put under stress, and under certain circunstances can´t heal at all. as stated by tsunade several times). What i know is that much of craneal nerves and the no-reparable condition of the spinal nerves has been stated in naruto, and that even the ways of creating genjutsu are quite "logical" even since a psichological perspective.

    then, if that´s true, as i supose, there are two posible esenarios:

    1) obito survives (i don´t like this one, since he would have had to be healed by a nin even more skilled than tsunade -- hmmm... i also dind´t like sassori to be almost bodyless, similar reasons--) and he might be 1/2 or 3/4 blinded, surely not retarded, very unprobably has two personalities and can move at least his left arm (and has much of his mental functions untouched), until something else happens to him, what ever it is.

    2)obito died (this one is much what i would think as a student of a medical-biological career), and everyting is much more believable.


    i din´t add any bibliography or quotes... sorry. if you help me for the second or ask me for the first i will. this was my first thread, and i have never posted, so please rep, no matter if it is + or -... thanks for reading, and sorry about the writing. i chose to learn russian in the univ instead of english.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
    Tags:
  2. Astaroth ど~~ん!

    Messages:
    4,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Reputation:
    I hope it's #1. Good analysis; I did one like it a million years ago.
     
  3. ironblade_x1 Emperor

    Messages:
    4,525
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    532
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Reputation:
    well done
    more proof that obito lives
     
  4. check0r Member

    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Reputation:
    Thanks dude. I hope Obito lives on!
     
  5. ~ Son of SPARDA ~ Active Member

    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Reputation:
    Ever since I made that Tobi = Obito thread of mine it seems as if people have followed suit and posted surrogate theories left and right with many of my premises within them... I don't know, maybe I'm just a little paranoid of people stealing my ideas trying to pass them off as their own. Anyway, nice theory... I can tell you put A LOT of thought and effort into it.
     
  6. daynzka New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Reputation:
    jubi no gekido, it is not thath i´m stealing your idea; i´m giving it a neuropsichological review. i read a lot of teories about obito, and of course i read yours... i´m just writing what an specialist on the field would think about them.
     
  7. RupertGriffin Member

    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Reputation:
    *sighs*

    I swear, somebody made the same mistake under a week ago.

    Bain of My Existence.


    note how the heart is NOT in the left, but in the middle? yeah, that's because in real people, the heard is in the middle, and not on the left. I doubt Obito is much different.

    oh, and I believe the word you're looking for is "Psychology." Although it might be "Physiology."
     
  8. daynzka New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Reputation:
    RuppertGriffin, discussing about the relative position of viceral organs is a bit pointless (specially since i NEVER sayed the hearth is in the right side)... i have seen some autopsys... organs are not precisely as they apear in your image, u know? pancreas is a bit to the right side of the body, but i found the pancreas in what seemed the sagital axis of the corpse to me.. anyway, the matter is that the artery aorta and the cava vein "protude" (or sprout, should i say?) from the hearth to the right side. if you smash a person on the right side, both of them are much more likely to be perforated, obturated or herniated (a certain death) than if you smash the left side.

    hmmm... second. i don´t know wich word are you talking abot. there are a lot of them in my post. don´t answer if you are willing to make my life unhapy (i really don´t need it), but only if it is usefull for understanding my posts. i already sayed i´m not a native user of english. being correct is something i don´t care at all.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  9. Yakushi Kabuto Socks Activate! Shape of a

    Messages:
    45,865
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007






    Oh wow, this was certainly interesting, I really like how you tied in Obito's ability to process things with his eyes and the fact that he could still be talking to indicate what portion of him may have remained undamaged.
     
  10. ~ Son of SPARDA ~ Active Member

    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Reputation:
    Oh no you're ok I was just making an observation... you still had a pretty good theory though because you obviously put a lot more into it than I did into mine.

    Don't worry about RupertGriffin, the best way to handle people like him is to simply ignore them no matter what they may say to you, which is what I'm about to do starting right now since I've set him straight three times already on the exact same issue. He has the right to present his "heart is in the middle" argument but the way he's done so thus far, in your case and mine, has been disrespectful.

    It's also understandable that your posts are going to have some grammatical errors in them seeing as you've indicated you're not a native speaker of the English language so don't worry, the mature people around here aren't going to comically exploit that or bash you for it... just as long as what you write is at least half-way legible.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  11. QuoNina Active Member

    Messages:
    6,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Reputation:
    Wow, that was an interesting analysis, doc!

    It's fairly easy to justify miracles in a shounen manga. But I definitely like your diagnosis. Am quite interested in the genetic link of schizophrenia. Gonna read more about that, and thanks for the info!
     
  12. IDGabrielHM Doesn't want a custom title

    Messages:
    3,443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Reputation:
    Well done.


    However, this is a manga where people can have their heart bisected by a big f**k-off sword and proceed to hop up and bitch-slap their assailant most handily. Obito'Tobi's overall health has extensive wiggle room due to the laws of the Narutoverse.

    Not even extensive periods of brain death demand that a person must remain dead.
     
Loading...