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Mihawk vs. Jozu

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome' started by Josh, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    You are making no sense. Unless you can see the future and tell us that all of those guys will never ever use named attacks it is irrelevant to assume that they can´t. Have you ever heard the saying absence of evidence isn´t evidence of absence? This is basically what applies here. You assume Vista can´t use named attacks even tho his showings were restricted to like what.. 3 panels? Kinemon doesn´t need a named attack to cut fire or a steel door that is such a random example. Same for Momonga can you tell me why he would need a named attack against weakened pre-skip Luffy? Hakuba is barely able to talk normal and disappeared in every showing after like 2 mins. The only legit example you can bring up is Ryuma but even then Ryuma did resort to the named attacks he gained from Brook. Fact of the matter is that there are rarely swordsmen without named attacks in any manga let alone in One Piece. Heck man even Tashigi has named attacks and you want to convince us that Mihawk hasn´t? Not a chance.
     
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  2. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    1) He was serious, are you expecting him to scream for 20 minutes before shooting off a kamehameha?

    2) You mean in the anime? The manga Jozu just stopped that shit like nothing and had no scruff marks, I don't even see dirt on him, there does seem to be some steam or dust though.

    3) To put Jozu in that situation? Jozu stopped it like nothing in the manga, ie the true canon.
    Chapter 553 for your convenience. Mihawk said he wanted to measure his own strength against Whitebeard's own, he swung his attack, then Jozu easily stopped it and Mihawk frowned because he knew he wasn't shit.

    Mihawk probably thought he had a chance of pushing Whitebeard but Jozu made him humble. But hey, pretend the guy who was stalemated by Vista and who's strongest attack was easily dealt with by Jozu can actually hold a candle to yonkou.
     
  3. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    1) He was serious, that's true. Mihawk is quite the serious person. It wasn't close to being his strongest slash though. That would require him to stand in a more practical stance. Standing straight up with your feet close together is quite ineffective. Also, his strongest slash should tax him at least slightly.

    2) No, I mean in the manga. Look at Jozu's left shoulder and neck in the bottom left panel:
    Spoiler:

    Now I'm not a proponent that these kinds of marks are damage marks, but it seems like I'm in quite a small minority looking at the number of people who believe that Luffy actually damaged Fujitora. If you believe that Luffy damaged Fujitora, then you should believe that Mihawk damaged Jozu. I don't believe there was any damage involved in either case.

    3) Everyone's ranged attacks always gets stopped. No-one can do anything to anyone worth their salt at that range. You could prove me wrong by showing me a panel of anyone damaging anyone strong at kilometre-range. Come back to me when Shanks defeats Shilliew with one mid-end ranged slash.
     
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  4. xmysticgohanx Zoro > Law

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    Any slash that would hurt Luffy should have hurt Daz Bones. Why didn't it? It is because Mihawk did not use the BoS.

    Zoro only hurt Daz Bones because he used the BoS, that was the point of him swinging at the leaves and not hurting them and the point of the scene in general.
     
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  5. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    That's false, Luffy is essentially just rubber, he had no actual busoshoku. Post timeskip sure, but a fodder could have cut Luffy who was not able to grab the arm/kick the arm, dodge, or grab the sword by both sides between his palms. Ie any blade that hit Luffy would have cut him if it would have cut a regular person.

    BoS is fan fiction forum talk, the fact is that it was a skill feat showing him passing his limits. There is no steel cutting feat, simply being strong enough to cut through steel with raw skill/strength, and buso for devil fruits.
     
  6. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    1) Swordsman have been shown to be arm users, not leg users. While yes, there is some reasoning for stance in true swordsmanship, we have Zoro doing stuff like cutting ships in half and pica in half but being unable to run much faster than a regular person outside of small flash step bursts of iaido. Swordsmanship in one piece is effectively all technique and upper body strength. Also "tax him", not particularly, Zoro's strongest attacks don't particularly tax him, nor does Jinbei's strongest attack (the one he used against big mom), g4 taxes Luffy but king kong gun not as much, but Luffy's whole shtick is he has finite time in his forms.

    2) Those are shadows and the diamond form ending gradually into smaller (above his left eye for example). But yeah, those are pretty much just shadows, not even dust or anything that is common manga. If you look at him before marineford when he was first introduced on whitebeard's ship, you can see he has that shadow thing under his chin and after that incident you can tell he is actually 100% fine.
    I can't post the link but it's when Crocodile is rammed by Jozu, no injury like you said persist, only some shadowing.

    I don't debate g3 and Ishoo, never have, that being said: Ishoo had shadow over his face but most importantly he had what appears to be a darker thing under his left eye, it is either a very apparent bruise or actually a slightly bloody injury. It's not consistent with the shadows that are already on his face and is distinctly darker just for one place, ie an injury


    3) Swordsman mix ranged combat with close range, via air slashes and cqc slashes. Anyway we've seen people get taken out by gunners and stuff multiple times. Also T-Bone's main offense was a ranged attack, Zoro just didn't have ranged attacks till post timeskip is the only thing, it's not much different than a cp9 guy using ranyaku or whatever. Anyway iaido draws and flash steps are just stylish and super anime is why zoro fights usually end with them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  7. xmysticgohanx Zoro > Law

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    you need to reread zoro vs daz bones
     
  8. Kai R I N N I N G Retired Staff

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    While agreed it wasn't Mihawk's single strongest slash, the power came from a serious Mihawk. It was by no means a casual slash.

    Mihawk outright stated he wanted to measure the difference between himself and WB. It does not get any clearer than that.
     
  9. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    I think it was a really casual slash. You can´t honestly believe that a serious Mihawk barely trumps the power output of current Zoro who is not even going all out. That´s quite optimistic. And there is no reason to assume that Mihawk needs one of his very strongest attacks to measure the gap. He is good at observing people he can probably take a lot away from the reaction a Whitebeard has towards that attack. Like "hmm what level of attack will Whitebeard use to counter this" "is he confident he could tank this with haki?" "will he react in a mocking way or will he recognize it as powerful" "will a subordinate jump in and if so why?" those are all thoughts a Mihawk could have had at that moment and from that alone you can probably get a good grasp how powerful your opposition really is. Don´t underestimate the analytical power of the hawk he´s been implied multiple times to rather hesitate with displaying anything close to his real power. For all we know this was only his strongest base attack and he is holding back a transformation like ashura which then increases his power 10 times.
     
  10. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Aoe =/= power

    Not that it matters, Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk in a few arcs. Most likely by being someone who beats Mihawk.

    Also that's stupid about "not needing his strongest attack to measure", if he doesn't use a serious attack, wb or whoever wouldn't have to go seriously to stop it, meaning it wouldn't matter. Especailly if it wasn't even enough to make Jozu struggle.

    You're making up excuses to wank Mihawk, we get it. The fact is that Mihawk was standstood by Vista and rejected by Jozu. He was serious and he wanted to compare his strength against Whitebeard but when his attack was easily stopped by Jozu you can tell Mihawk is visibly displeased and humbled by his actual reaction after it was stopped.

    If it was casual, he wouldn't have been upset like that, it was a serious attack that was stopped easily by Jozu. But hey, keep pretending MIhawk is yonkou tier based on the fact that he fought Shanks 20 years ago when Shanks was a mid tier.

    Mihawk is a cool character, his fans are cancer though.
     
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  11. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    if aoe is not power for a swordsman (in most cases like for Zoro and Mihawk) then how come the stronger attacks of both characters were always the bigger ones? There isn´t even any other way to measure the attack strength of their air slashes so yeah I heavily disagree with that.

    Exactly as you said. "In a few arcs" so why do you think Mihawk´s most powerful attacks are comparable to a held back Zoro already? And Jozu struggling or not is a really bad argument to downplay Mihawk. He is tailor-made to block a swordsman you might as well argue that Kizaru looks bad because Marco can no-sell his currently strongest base attack with regeneration. And nothing about Mihawk´s reaction looked humbled. I do not know where you get that from when looking at a picture that just shows the stereotypical emotionless face of Mihawk. Well keep pretending Mihawk is equal to Vista. I believe he either beats Vista lower end of high-diff or higher end of mid-diff. That is already huge credit to a character that is at most 3.strongest yonko commander against a character more than likely above admiral level. But what do I know I´m just wanking and you are the smart one.:catwave
     
  12. xmysticgohanx Zoro > Law

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    why y'all still arguing this when I ended the thread already
     
  13. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Are you trying to say that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger to argue that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger?

    Also larger =/= stronger for Zoro, so you have 0 swordsman who are confirmed to have their strongest attack being their largest aoe.

    Meanwhile there are multiple established swordsman like daz bones, kaku, cavendish, kyros, etc etc who aren't just large aoe attackers.

    We have a way to measure how serious Mihawk was, by his own words and the utter disappointment/humbling Mihawk clearly was shown to have after Jozu blocked his attack.

    Zoro hasn't held back, he struggled to find the real Pica since he's weak leg wise and is all upper body strength so he couldn't ger around quickly, his specialty isn't kenbunshoku but buso, and pica was moving around a lot within the pica golem. Zoro was serious, maybe he didn't use his strongest attack but he was 100% serious, he 100% needed help to end it, not because he met his match, but because it was a horrible match up for him.

    "He is tailor-made to block a swordsman"
    No he's not, a punch or bullet wouldn't do any better than a sword slash. He's just a powerful top tier with powerful buso, raw strength, defense, and a powerful devil fruit.

    Marco vs Kizaru went as so:
    Kizaru shot beams at Whitebeard
    Marco used high speed rotations in a circular motion to create a gust of wind/vacuum of wind that had a powerful force that ultimately stopped Kizaru's beam spam and since it had nowhere to go it collapsed into itself and made a giant ball of light.
    Marco and Kizaru troll talked each other.
    Marco started to fly towards Kizaru, Kizaru shot at him helplessly as Marco has intangibility and they weren't haki-ified attacks.
    Marco then when he got close attempted to kick Kizaru, Kizaru blocked it but Marco pushed through the block to send Kizaru flying into marineford. Kizaru turned intangible so that he wouldn't suffer crashing damage.
    Marco turned his attention away to Whitebeard cuz he was suffering a heart attack and stuff and he was planning on helping but then Kizaru shot him when he wasn't focusing so he wasn't intangible.
    Marco then went "i'm focusing on you now" and got blindsided by a vice admiral with seastone and got shot again by Kizaru.

    Marco only really used healing when garp hit him and the free attacks Kizaru got on Marco.

    Mihawk didn't looked humbled? He was frowning like someone who thought he was yonkou tier (cuz top tiers never really fight each other as evidenced by whole cake island arc) who realized he's barely top commander leveled. He visibly frowned and got quiet, it wasn't emotionless, he was actually frowning.

    You just wank Mihawk is the problem, the fans, not the character is bad. Mihawk is just a Vista leveled top tier who was stalemated by Vista and was humbled by Jozu.

    Mihawk literally doesn't have a single feat that puts him on admiral level, it's just people going "oh he stalemated shanks 15-20 years ago"

    3 years ago Arlong was stronger than Luffy. Within 3 years Luffy will be pirate king.

    Arlong isn't stronger than pirate king level. Both were equal back then and had different growth rates, Mihawk peaked at low top tier and Shanks peaked at yonkou leveled.
     
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  14. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    No I´m not? No idea how you come to such a weird conclusion. In any case if what you said is true are you also going to say that 1080 pound cannon is weaker than 108 pound cannon? I doubt it. Do you believe if Zoro uses ashura his aoe becomes lower? Again I doubt it. Are the small air slashes Mihawk threw at Luffy mid-fight stronger than the ice-wave cut and the attack he threw at Whitebeard? Again the answer is no. So stop pretending that AoE means nothing in both of these characters cases- it clearly does. Also there is no doubt that Oda drew that Mihawk attack against Whitebeard as big as it is because he wants us to think that the increased size means it is more powerful. Do not pretend that is not true you know it is. So clearly he wants us to see aoe as a good indicator of strength for Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks. It´s no coincidence that a Zoro cuts Pica with daizen Sekai that just cut a monstrous golem minutes before instead of an attack like Shishi Sonson.

    Huh? Daz bones is obviously not a swordsman and clearly his attacks are also all about aoe as we´ve seen when he cut buildings and other stuff as a side-effect. Cavendish isn´t known to be a power type of fighter he is a speed fighter so bad example. Kaku´s strongest attack is conveniently the only one that cut the whole tower of justice- so again wrong. Kyros is also a speed based fighter who is about dodging bullets, never getting injured and all that stuff he never showcased any power-type attack like air slashes so another pointless example.

    You are pretty much arguing semantics here. You are fully aware to the fact that I´m refering to Zoro not using ashura. So yes he was not giving 100% which was the whole point of the argument. If Zoro rivals Mihawk´s attack without even using his best move then you know there is something suspicious going on with Mihawk.

    Oh yes a punch would most definitely fare better. Have you ever heard of a knife that cuts diamond? I haven´t. On the contrary you can even break a diamond with a hammer. This is common sense and everyone who did his homework knows that. Aruging against this is like arguing against the obvious that Aokiji would be a better match-up against Marco than an Akainu or Kizaru.


    I don´t care one bit how this fight went the point still remains. If you argue that Mihawk looked bad because he got blocked by a convenient ability made for defense then you have to argue the same for Kizaru. No excuses allowed.

    Where do you get from that he was frowning when all we see is a close-up of his face? And why does it matter? Is Mihawk the type of guy that would get all angry and suddenly charge at Jozu screaming like a mad-man? Is he the type of guy that talks a lot and gives long speeches when you block his attacks? No so I don´t know why you seriously want to pretend his reaction is all that unexpected and telling.

    I do not wank Mihawk at all. You won´t hear me say that I am 100% sure that he is stronger than Shanks, and Mihawk being in the same ball-park as Shanks and other top tiers is a widely accepted consensus. So you are pretty much calling like 90% of the One Piece community wankers now. I can pretty much count the amount of people who share that opinion that he´s Vista level (based on like 3 panels? wow) with you while there are thousands of people who would tell you otherwise so there is clearly something wrong with that opinion.

    That´s funny just a few sentences ago you said "mihawk is a Vista leveled Top Tier". Now you are suddenly saying he is not even admiral level. So wait are top tiers not admiral level according to you? Funny man. very funny.

    And comparing Arlong to Mihawk is just a joke. Mihawk is a respected active fighter with a world title only rivaled by other yonko and Dragon and who has been acknowledged by Whitebeard and Shanks. Saying that Arlong´s case who never received any hype like that would be comparable to Mihawk is just pure trolling. Mihawk´s the type of guy who won´t be satisfied with his strength until he is at the top of his game and his world title and the desire to find someone who in his opinion is more worthy than a one-armed yonko pretty much reflects that. You ain´t gonna convince anyone that he sat on his bum for 10 years satisfied with being a low-top tier. He would be dead at this point given that he is a loner if his strength peaks at that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  15. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    That's pretty bad, you specifically stated Zoro and Mihawk are people who have their strongest attacks as bigger aoe skills, then you deny that you used Mihawk as evidence to prove Mihawk's strongest attack is his largest aoe attack. You objectively did use your conclusion to defend your conclusion.

    Asura is a power up, and yes Zoro could realistically defeat larger aoe attacks with a simple sword swing. The fact is that aoe is only really used to destroy large things or attack large groups, stuff like ship cuts. Aoe is also used to demonstrate power. Like in dragon ball, you have people like cell confirmed as solar system busters but then you have people infinitely stronger only destroying a mountain with their finishers. Aoe is just a "oh wow he destroyed a mountain", but every large attack won't be aoe focused. Comparing the same technique of varying degrees of power is pretty silly. But yeah in anime there is something called condensed power, while something like Mihawk's best attempt at comparing himself versus whitebeard got no sold but Jozu, an attack from another character that doesn't involve hax could effectively deal with Jozu's defense without having the same scale of aoe. Like I said earlier, a Red Hawk would run through Zoro's ship cutting and mountain cutting techniques without itself creating that much devastation of aoe. It's pretty much anime aoe, how you want to describe it is up to you, but it's a fact you'll have to admit. Call it condensed power or whatever, but it's a reality of this medium. John Giant swinging down at Whitebeard created more aoe than the counter force Whitebeard used to successfully block the technique. Cracker would overwhelm characters with vastly more aoe than he has shown.

    Daz Bones is a swordsman
    Cavendish blocked pre retirement Chinjao's forehead attack and held him up in the air, that's arguably a stronger strength feat than any Zoro has shown to date even though it had no aoe. Just because Cavendish speed blitzes the fuck out of everyone doesn't mean he's not physically a monster in strength.
    Kyros isn't a speed based fighter, he's a pure raw strength fighter, heck I'd almost argue that his fighting style is more raw strength focused than swordsmanship focused. He was fast for short spurts after he returned but he mainly took advantage of his puppet body to move quickly prior to it, he was an absolute upper body strength monster, doing stuff like breaking the neck of the one doflamingo pirate with his bare hands.
    "never showed any air slashes"
    That's literally my point, he doesn't have aoe but he's physically a monster. Like you're literally agreeing and pointing out things that I say, but somehow disagree with the facts you yourself are providing.

    Asura is a complete unknown, he might not even be able to use it and maybe it'll be an end of series thing that he'll develop and that he showed signs of previously. Zoro by all evidence by his demeaner and all that, was using his strongest attacks and required help to get the better of Pica.

    Jozu isn't going to shatter if you punch him, also you are saying hammer, not fist. But yeah, make up your mind, do you actually think that regular diamonds are stopping mountain cutting slashes from cutting Jozu in half? Yes you might be unable to break a diamond yourself with a knife, but a mountain cutting slash? Easily. As far as devil fruit functionality is concerned, if you got the diamond fruit and had no mastery of it, you'd be as durable as diamonds, however when you develop the power more and get stronger/more mastery of the devil fruit, you are still turning to "Diamonds" but you are vastly increasing the quality of said diamond defense. Then throw in stuff like busoshoku, raw top tier defense/durability/willpower, and some other things.
    Not to mention it's not like Jozu turned to diamonds and just stand there, he physically overpowered the slash, not being displaced from the position he was in at all, so yeah, the diamonds didn't even particularly stop the slash, Jozu did. If he didn't have the raw strength to overpower the slash, he would have been sent flying even if maybe the diamonds would protect him from the cutting aspect of the slash. Not that it matters, would an air slash with so much volume/density even be considered a slash anymore? Wouldn't it be pure blunt force that can push through objects via raw power? So that "air slash" is effectively just a giant fist.

    Jozu stood in place and physically overpowered Mihawk's strongest slash that was meant to test his own strength against Whitebeard, then he frowned cuz of his failure, extremely humbled and disappointing in his own lack of power, if he didn't overpower it, he'd have been sent flying even if his diamonds protected him from being cut into. Not that it matters, your argument is that diamonds are bad against larger surface sized attacks like cuts, while the attack was arguably bigger than Jozu, meaning the devil fruit might not even come into play, Jozu might have just raw out just grabbed the attack and went "nope"

    The fact that Mihawk has a very pronounced frown when it showed him in like a mid shot if I recall correctly (shot wise)
    Like extremely pronounced, like overly frowning. It wasn't a default expression by any means like in your gif. You do know what a frown is right? Smile = curved up, flat expression = straight line, frown = curved down
    He was making a clear frown, which heavily contrasts a flat expression you are claiming he was making. He was visibly upset.

    Claiming Mihawk is stronger than his feats = wank
    Claiming Mihawk is still Shanks equal = wank

    You can count the amount of people who believe he's Vista leveled? So what? Do you think that more people agreeing with you justifies your argument? Argumentum ad populum, a pretty basic logical fallacy.

    Vista and Mihawk were portrayed equally both verbally and by their fight.
    Jozu was portrayed physically superior to both Vista and Mihawk.

    Mihawk has no superior feats beyond those two situations, his only other feats were at one time stalemating multiple times a mid tier shanks when both were in their teens or 20's and doing stuff pre timeskip that Zoro could replicate now.

    Heck have we even seen Mihawk post timeskip? For all we know he might already be dead, killed by Zoro or someone else.

    Those top tier and not even admiral level are consistent. Top tier pretty much is everyone from Doflamingo up to Prime Whitebeard and Roger.
    Just like how high tier is everyone from the weakest vice admirals up to around Law, Smoker, and Vergo.

    Admirals are around mid top tier.
    Vista is low top tier, probably stronger than Doflamingo by a bit, but not by much. Heck even if we go on portrayal, Doflamingo was the parallel to Mihawk in all their encounters within the shichibukai. Weevil is arguably stronger than Mihawk.

    Actually comparing Arlong to Mihawk is a joke because Arlong has fought Luffy even more recently than Mihawk has fought Shanks. If you compare the two, Arlong comes out looking better based on chronological battles. Not to mention Arlong was stronger than Luffy while Mihawk was only equal to Shanks back then. Mihawk got stronger, but not at the rate of Shanks (or at least he peaked earlier than Shanks did). Also I'm fully expecting villains like Crocodile, Moriah, Arlong, etc to come back and be varying degrees of top tier when Luffy is reaching top top tier level. Also world title only rivaled by other yonkou and dragon? WHo was acknowledged by Whitebeard and Shanks? What does the world's strongest swordsman title actually mean? It means he hasn't been beaten by another swordsman. Who are the top swordsman in the world? Mihawk? Vista? Shanks? Kin'emon? Oden who died years ago before Mihawk even was a high tier?

    Kaidou isn't a swordsman
    Big Mom isn't a swordsman
    Blackbeard isn't a swordsman
    Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman
    Shanks hasn't fought Mihawk in like 20 years, so the title is pointless there as well
    Vista has never met Mihawk until Marineford despite being one of the big names in swordsmanship and being able to effectively stalemate Mihawk.
    Who is even actively fighting Mihawk? People like Don Krieg who shichibukai deal with to keep piracy down? Vista didn't even seem particularly interested in fighting Mihawk for the title even. Zoro to date is the only person who gives a shit about the world's strongest swordsman title besides literal fodder who's job it is is to whine "omg it's the world's strongest swordsman", I don't even think Mihawk cares about the title. Also Kin'emon doesn't give a shit about the title either.

    Whitebeard didn't acknowledge Mihawk, Shanks is old friends/rivals with Mihawk so of course he'd acknowledge him, are we going to pretend that Vista is a nobody anyway? Mihawk acknowledged Vista.
    Whitebeard fucking acknowledged pre timeskip Luffy who was a mid tier.

    Mihawk is at the top of his game, he peaked at Vista leveled. Also "won't be satisfied with his strength until he is at the top of his game", what? Are we even talking about the same Mihawk? Mihawk literally sits alone in a gothic castle drinking wine and floating around in a coffin defeating fodder in paradise and the blues with his free time. You can't make shit up like character traits that characters don't have, Mihawk is arguably lazy, and at best he's like Aokiji: goes with the wind.


    No low top tier went "oh well I could be yonkou leveled, but meh, I'll be lazy and just settle", they just were physically unable to reach those heights that other characters did. Jack never went "well, time to retire from getting stronger", characters just have limits and so forth. This isn't like when people can grind in a jrpg to level 9999 if they give it time, this is like when people physically reach their peak limits in like real life martial arts.

    Luffy is going to be a top top tier because of a mix of:
    Amazing heredity: Monkey family which not only makes bad asses who are superhuman, but also seems to be special beyond that, stuff like the voice of all seems like it's passed down in family (maybe royal family of the void century)
    Tons of training
    Will of D
    A rare individual with a super powerful haoshoku (which comes into play his character traits that give him this ability)
    Exceptional genius in combat, stuff like seeing soru and coming up with a way to replicate it and then some with g2, being able to conceptualize kenbunshoku on such a high level that he's about to master future sight, etc etc
    A very versatile devil fruit that allows his creative genius to flourish, allowing him to use forms like g2, g3, and g4, along with I believe the ability to use either mink lightning or Uranus's lightning with no limitations while getting up close himself (due to him being rubber)
    etc etc

    If top tiers or high tiers had the ability to surpass a yonkou in strength, they would do it. Kaidou is pushing past his limits seemingly through the implementation of artificial devil fruits and also supplying his army with them, along with using weapons of mass destruction. But yeah, Mihawk's only goal right now seems to be to train Zoro up to defeat him.

    Saying he'd be dead if he's not a yonkou in strength is silly, there are a bunch of mid tiers in the new world and characters like the minks who aren't under yonkou control, then you factor in that Mihawk has been in paradise and the blues for most of his time and that he works for the marines.

    No one gives a shit about going after Mihawk but fodder and Zoro.
     
  16. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    @PwnGoatVSPandaman

    Honestly I can´t be bothered to read all this let alone go into detail about it. I saw glances of the text like you saying it´s wank when anyone says Mihawk is on par with Shanks or "no one gives a shit about the title" without factual prove for that. Let alone that silly talk to justify that Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks were not comparable when they clearly were. You are just in denial, get over it. Also it´s funny that you still call me a Mihawk wanker even tho I already admitted that I think Shanks is slightly stronger but I guess some people just can´t be pleased at all. Besides it´s even more funny considering that another guy called me a Shanks wanker just 2 weeks ago when I defended him. You guys are really disrespectful and go to incredible extremes just to say "oh my favourite character is so much better than yours".
     
  17. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    The two best swordsman we know of haven't fought Mihawk, Shiryuu has been in prison for years and Mihawk has been training Zoro since he got out.

    Let's go through the swordsman:

    Shanks: Hasn't fought Mihawk and it's required to beat Mihawk to become the best swordsman, not simply being a better swordsman
    Vista: Had never met Mihawk up until their clash at marineford, they'd simply heard of each other's reputations
    Oden: Dead before Mihawk would have gotten the title and he was arguably Roger tier
    Shiryuu: Was in jail and since he's gotten out, he's been helping Blackbeard in the new world while Mihawk has been in paradise training Zoro
    Kin'emon: A high tier and I imagine if he's ever met Mihawk, it was years ago.
    Zoro: Might have already beaten Mihawk, but maybe not.
    Daz Bones: Is probably stronger now due to how willpower and drive increase power and he's crocodile's first mate who will probably return a top tier, so I expect Daz Bones to kind of rival Zoro in power post timeskip, though Mihawk is either dead now and he's been training Zoro, or whatever, only fought Mihawk pre timeskip
    Kaku: Same situation except never fought Mihawk


    So out of those 8 swordsman, only 1 of those characters gives a shit about defeating Mihawk and that's Zoro. 3 of those characters were too weak pre timeskip to even matter. (zoro, daz bones, and kaku)
    1 was too busy worrying about Wano (kin'emon)
    One has been in jail for years (shiryuu, he might want to kill mihawk and if mihawk is alive he probably will)
    One is dead and is pretty much confirmed >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mihawk (oden)
    One had never met Mihawk a second of his life until he stalemated him (Vista)
    And one hasn't fought Mihawk for like 20 years (Shanks)


    Now there are people who want to defeat Mihawk, but they are utter fodder, like the 2 okama swordsman who didn't have names who challenged Mihawk at marineford. Top tiers who give a shit about Mihawk? None until post timeskip at least (shiryuu) High tiers who care about Mihawk? None until post timeskip at least (Zoro, Daz Bones, and Kaku)


    Shichibukai literally are tasked with defeating up and coming pirates in paradise, they aren't out there fighting yonkou and top commanders.

    Shanks is vastly stronger than Mihawk, Shanks is arguably a top end top tier, Mihawk barely makes top tier.

    I provided actual evidence to make my argument that Mihawk is only Vista leveled, you've ignored everything I said and then tried to call me "rude"

    Ultimately being a top commander level is nothing to fret at, they are among the strongest characters in the one piece world even if Luffy is going through them nowadays. But Luffy is about to breach into yonkou territory when he gets another powerup or two. (after future sight kenbunshoku, another 1 or 2)

    Mihawk might honestly have been defeated by Zoro already, he hasn't been seen post timeskip and Zoro hasn't really mentioned it, it'd be like Zoro to not brag about becoming the world's strongest swordsman. I mean Sanji surpassed Ivankov at the end of his training (to get the last recipe)

    Overall Rayleigh > Mihawk > Ivankov though so Luffy not surpassing Rayleigh yet makes sense, even after getting future sight kenbunshoku.
     
  18. shisuiuchiha5 Member

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    how is thatch stronger than mihawk?
     
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  19. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Because Mihawk is Vista's equal.
     
  20. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    And Chopper is Big Mom's equal.

    Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > G4 Luffy
     
  21. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    You forgot Monet is also equal to Zoro and Zoro is stronger than Brook so put Monet and Zoro at the beginning of that chain.:awesome
     
  22. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    And let's not forget that Tashigi beat Monet, so we end up with:
    Tashigi > Monet > Zoro > Ryuuma > Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > Luffy

    Seems legit.
     
  23. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    This will be the greatest tier list ever.:awesome
     
  24. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    So Chopper puff balling a super casual malnourished big mom makes him equal compared to Vista and Mihawk fighting for a duration of a few minutes and both hyping each other up equally and both having one point against the other, and Mihawk prior to it having his strongest attack no sold by Jo;zu.

    Get over it, Mihawk is Vista tier and Mihawk might already be dead.
     
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  25. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    Mihawk has already been confirmed to be alive.
     
  26. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Where? He wasn't hasn't been on panel.
    If he lost it'd be at the butt end of the training when Zoro was where he is now.

    Be it versus Zoro or someone who came in post Mihawk training so zoro could get what he needed out of Mihawk training.
     
  27. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    Cover story chapter 826. He's wearing a straw hat and everything. Both eyes too, pissed a lot of people off because of their Zoro eye theories, but a sharingan and the teenage angst that comes with it would just ruin this story.
     

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