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Minato vs MS Sasuke

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Munboy Dracule O'Brian, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    MS Sasuke = mastered MS Sasuke = EMS Sasuke without Perfect Susanoo, EMS prediction and V5 Susanoo.

    Knowledge:
    - Sasuke knows how Hiraishin works, that Minato is fast and was 4th Hokage and Naruto's father.

    - Minato has reputational knowledge of the MS in general (let's see if some of you still think MS jutsu are randomised per user) and doesn't know Itachi exists. He knows Sasuke was Kakashi's student.

    Restictions:
    - No Kurama
    - Minato committing suicide = his loss.
     
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  2. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    MS Sasuke.

    Minato's maximum reflex speed is below 4th Raikage's Raiton Reflexes. Since this is a battle between two speedsters I'm inclined to suggest he'd have the enormously gapped upperhand against the Yellow Flash.

    - Hiraishin has limits; it barely kept up with MS Obito who was caught by surprise and was controlling the Kyuubi and had the drawbacks of controlling; ie, enormous chakra taxation and thus weakening the body. He still overcame and almost killed him with the difference being a split second difference in deciding the winner.

    MS Sasuke being a greater combatant in all accounts except in Genjutsu, beats him in combat and it's near mid difficulty. He'd outspeed him several times in the confrontation till he get overwhlemed.
     
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  3. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Minato wins low diff, Ama won't land and Sasuke can't keep track on him if even a slower character, A4 was too fast for him.
     
  4. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Wait he is faster than V2 Ā on foot? I thought he used the Hiraishin to barely evade an inferior version of Ā....
     
  5. Hussain Well-Known Member

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  6. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    And Hiraishin isn't restricted, therefore MS Sasuke can't keep track on Minato.
    Also, Minato's Hiraishin+strike is faster than V2 Ei fastest Shunshin on top of being hard to predict, making it way more difficult to avoid.
     
  7. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Certain things I'd like to clarify:-
    - There's no proof he used V2 or had it at that point in the era.
    - His reflexes were stated to be below that of Raiton Enhanced Ā.
    - Both him and his brother kept up with the Hiraishin Kunai Throws. Infact former was greatly assured that he could catch him when he appears in his next marking. Of the 100 + above markings that were on place for him to warp to.
    - MS Sasuke have dealt with unpredictable maneuveres like Bee's Sword Play. He was weakened at that point yet he dealt with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  8. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    He had it since he admitted himself in the war arc that Minato is faster than him + that Naruto was the second one after Minato to dodge his max Shunshin. Databook confirms it as well at least two times.

    RCM A = Minato in reflexes, that's what was stated.

    B&A vs Minato fought many times in the past and even with both brother attacking simultaneously they never managed to tag Minato even once.
    The only impression left is fear (Bee was trembling by just hearing his name) and unsrupassable power (ie : A's statement)

    Which is fodder compared to Hiraishin's speed+unorthodox moves.
     
  9. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    He probably meant the "fastest speed" he had at that point of time. FTG is considered physical speed in the manga. He thoroughly used it to evade him, mentioned multiple times in the Databook.

    Umm no.

    Do you've proof he did not produce backup? It's blatantly clear from the confrontation witnessed in the manga that he and his team was scared of both and immediately threw the retreat symbol. Can you prove they were scared of him?

    A bit miscontrued context. He said he was unparallelled in speed (through use of FTG) and unparallelled in jutsu talent. The same thing Jiraiya complimented him for. Never was it suggested he was unsurpassable in raw power. Bee was terrified when? Maybe in his youth, definitely not in his prime.

    "Fodder" when Ā claimed Bee got more talent than him? And the same Minato who was praised by Ā praising him for killer movements, which could stalemate even him? Don't think so mate.
     
  10. Bonly Bloodsucker

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    Sasuke gets tagged and bagged without to many problems
     
  11. King1 Go Wild

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    Sasuke is never touching minato, but the question remains, what arsenal does minato have that can destroy sasuke's susano cloaked with enton? He can't touch sasuke's susano with harming himself, frogs will get spammed with enton, this is one of minato's problems when facing against the uchiha brothers, he has the ability to dodge their attacks but lacks the firepower to break their defence. And this sasuke isn't gonna run out of chakra that easily.
     
  12. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    All lies.
     
  13. King1 Go Wild

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    Which ones? And if they are, care to refute them?
     
  14. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Sasuke being outsped by Minato is a blatant lie. Anyone who have read the manga knows he isnt outspeeding.
     
  15. King1 Go Wild

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    Never implied that minato can outspeed MS sasuke physically without FTG, i was talking about minato can dodge all of his attacks but he can't harm sasuke when he is in his susano. Engaging in CQC against minato is a bad decision in sasuke's part because minato can use that opportunity to put a mark on sasuke and then it's game over. So since sasuke knows about FTG, the best course of action is to stay in his susano and attack minato with his attacks which would be futile.
     
  16. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Minato couldnt do anything against base bee why would he be a threat against Sasuke who faced bee in a weakened state? Plus he dodged all of his attacks which former couldnt even do one. His attacks are as fast as him and MS can keep up with Hiraishin Kunais.
     
  17. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Raikage said : "You're the second one to dodge my max speed", meaning his speed didn't change since the first fight with Minato as he was already in his prime.

    Going by semantics this entier part of Cee's statement was about "base" A including the Taka part : "Lord Raikage's nerve transmission and his reaction speed as on par with Konoha's yellow flash, impressive that these folks are keeping up with him...". But we all know that he fought Taka RCM activated right of the bat, meaning either Kishi screwed up in his writing either the translation was wrong.

    Let me guess, when something doesn't follow your own vision of the manga, you start making worst case assumptions and playing with mental gymnastic so that it can match your reasoning.
    But let me respond you that Databook was talking about Minato vs A&B not Minato&backup vs A&B, the latter is simply this strong and was always hyped to be this high. Just accept it.

    Toying with words, Minato was both the fastest and the strongest, Raikage said Minato was the fastest and he further added that he was literrally unsurpassable, the was the child of profecy, the savior of the world who failed because he underestimated the danger of the tailed beasts.
    There were two contexts here, the first about speed and the second about invincible might power which could save the world.

    Jiraya said that everyone pales before him and that his capacity as a Shinobi was unparalled, talent for Jutsu and intelligence are nothing more than added decoration to his absolute power in Jiraya's point of view.

    Bee got more talent than A, not Minato. You should review your manga knowledge.

    High level moves are fodder if your speed and reactions are also fodders.
     
  18. King1 Go Wild

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    Stop, sasuke is never going to react to FTG, except if this was EMS in the war arc. Minato does not have the firepower to kill bee considering he has a biju inside him that can heal him unlike sasuke who will not tank a rasengan on his belly. Sasuke was barely keeping up with bee in taijutsu, infact bee thrashed him in it, so stop referencing sasuke's fight with bee cause you are not doing any justice by him, that was sasuke's most disgraceful fight.
     
  19. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    The only healing Bijuu is Kyubi.
     
  20. King1 Go Wild

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    Well we have to take into consideration that gaara healed from sasuke's chidori not too long from being affected by it and he was a jinchuriki, also we take into account tsunadae, by understanding the mechanics of healing, she healed the five kage by acclerating their chakra recovering which in turn accelerates the healing.
     
  21. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Chakra recovering =/= healing injuries, medical ninjutsu can simply perform the two tasks at the same time.

    No one ever pointed that Gaara was healed and his injury was only superficial, nothing to be alerted for.
     
  22. King1 Go Wild

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    Uh, gaara got stabbed with chidori and was coughing blood but his injury was superficial ?. Chidori is an assassination technique and gaara healed without no one healing him except you know who. Shukaku
     
  23. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    What a dramatical tone, the guy was just "barely" stabbed near his shoulder and you called it a critical wound lol.

    And Sasuke was not able to perform more than a superficial wound due to the manifestation of Shukaku's partial transformation which stopped his arm.
     
  24. King1 Go Wild

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    Barely
    No buddy, he was pierced with chidori and the impact made him cough out blood, and he healed after that,he was able to fight sasuke again in the forest, that's what happened not your own perception of reality
    Uh? I didn't type that statement you quoted but to address your point. Superfical or not is down to your interpretation of what happened but based on what was shown chidori pierced him and he coughed blood which made him incapable of fighting
     
  25. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Spitting little amount of blood is nothing for a Shinobi, and yeah Sauske just " " penetrated his shoulder, his arm was by Shukaku's partial transformation, thus he couldn't complete the stab.
     
  26. King1 Go Wild

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    Gee i wonder how he healed from that wound
    Except you are going to tell me if that was shikamaru he would have healed easily from that wound in a matter of minutes to be able to face sasuke at full strength again
    And like you said, his hand was numbed then how did his hand become unnumbed in a matter of minutes without no one healing him except you are implying that, that is a common technique that all genin can replicate even sakura or ino
     
  27. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    He said that but it was in a seperate context. FTG is considered physical speed. It's blatantly stated the reason behind his nickname is it.

    Max speed means the max he had at that point. Plus he never said Max speed. He said Max speed punch. The speed of his punch doesn't increase because he uses Shunshin while going V2 which doesn't amp speed in the upper regions of the body.

    Every translator agree he is being compared to base Ā. Every translation states the same thing.

    Umm no. It's blatantly implied he can't beat them alone. Minato can beat the Raikage with Hiraishin but he cant beat him in a pure physical speed contest. Nor can he defeat Raiton Cloaked in a contest of raw reflex speed.

    Umm no. He was praised for speed, Hiruzen, Hashirama are the only two Shinobi praised for overall strength. His Jutsu Talent was praised, his speed which facilitated through Hiraishin was praised, but he never was invincible. He came close to his death against Killer Bee. The Raikage reacted in V1, his FTG. This "unsurpassable" titles are stated in a context, not in the power context but rather a "potential" context. Kakashi claimed only Naruto can surpass the 4th Hokage, doesn't mean in a power scenario. He meant surpassing in Rasengan capability. Likewise it's more than clear that this particular phrase was stated in the Mastery of Hiraishin context rather than overall power. The very fact he claimed such in the lines of speed proves it's attributed to Hiraishin in all respects.

    Not necessarily to be taken in that manner. It's merely a hyperbole used to express the excellency of his in the realm of mastering different varieties of techniques. He wouldn't be retreating from A and B had he been that powerful as claimed.

    Never did I say opposite? Him praising Bee in the midst of combat points to latter possessing much more talent than him though.

    Which doesn't apply here as Sasuke's speed nor reactions are fodder compared to him.
     
  28. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    He evaded multiple sword slices and got hit by one or two. He dodged V1 bijuu cloak. He earned praise of being the strongest shinobi he ever fought.
     
  29. King1 Go Wild

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    Like i said, he barely kept up with bee, by him dodging some sword slices means he was keeping up but barely considering he was on the defensive during the entire encounter. But he only kept up for so long before bee thrashed him but nevertheless sasuke dodged v1 bee which is a good feat on his own but he can keep up with minato physically with the help of his sharingan but not FTG.
     
  30. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Sophitstry, playing with semantics and making the wort possible assumptions, that's the caracteristics of your posts. However, if you're going to overinterpret and playing mental gymnastic with even the following statememnt, this debate won't continue any furthere since it would only mean that you have bad faith :
    "Praised among all ninja as the greatest in god-like speed, the honour of that valour fascinates even the elites of other villages"
    "It managed to chase Naruto's Bijuu Chakra Mode, however it was inferior to the great speed of the Yellow-Flash".

    Ok which means Kishi screwed up with his writing since Taka was fighting RCM A not 'base' A as Cee claimed according to "Viz" translation.

    Jiraya, Kakashi, A, etc, it means power in all scenaruos unless you're dellusional or have hate for the character.

    He was not.

    Such a thing never happened.

    Well, I guess whenever Minato receives a statement of invincibility, you will obviously start with your mental gymnastic, sophistry and bad habit of searching the worst possible assumption/explenation which deliberatly downplay him.
    I guess, I'm done for here.
     
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