Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by maj1n, Oct 27, 2006.
That sucks. I live in Canada, supposedly the most multicultural place on earth, and were also a failure.
Shucks and I wanted to move to the UK too...
That's nothing new for us in Germany. We've had problems with Turkeys here for years. Everyone should just stay in their homecountry and make a journey if they want to see a different culture.
This is certainly not limited to one country. It happens everywhere in the world where there's more than one race of people. Hell, if there's only one race, it'd be happening between people who have moustaches and those who don't.
But seriously, the fact that different cultures don't want to live together isn't all that horrible. As long as there isn't anything hateful going on, what's the harm? Besides, the more people are encouraged to mix, the more they complain about being assimilated, or losing their culture.
^Quoted for truth. I wish every country could be multicultural, unfortunately, it will cause more harm than good.
However, I do wish that when people move into different countries that they realize that they will have to give up a portion of their culture in order to get along. As they say, "When in Rhome." However, people want to have their cake and eat it too.
Oh yes we have multiculturalism in sweden too. People move in here and when their daughters date non-muslims... They're attacked, killer, or similar. Yey for culture.
This phenomenon is known as "honour murder" and means basically the act of killing a female relative for disturbing the "honour" of the family or some such shit. They are not uncommon.
I am by no means saying that foreigners should be thrown out, i just feel they should be FORCED to adapt to their new situation.
I don't know about forcing them to adapt. I do agree that you must give up a portion of your own culture if you decide to move to another country--ifI were moving to china, I would try to learn the language. Obvioiusly, honor killings would be one of those things that must be given up, along with female genital mutilation.
If the Daily Mail told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them :/
or else they get "holy water"(or something like that) trown in their face
holy water = strong acid basicly burning of all of their face, boobs body and so on
Well the world know the situation in France about multiculturalism. It's too bad cause after the riot last year, we though that the british multiculturalism was better.
It's a case of politicians and business leaders creating policies with unforeseen consequences. Well, some foresaw them, but assumed their social experiments were enough to work out in the end. Despite historical evidence to the contrary...
That said, certain people seem to mix easier than others. There has never been a problem here in Canada with the Chinese, for instance. Of course, it could be that they don't have any social expectations; they seemed to accept the individual nature of life here.
Word to the wise... don't trust the daily mail. It's like FOX in UK tabloid form. They play on current fears to sell newspapers.
I seem to recall they created a petition to stop a black woman from getting treatment for a heart condition she received while visiting her husband in England. Because of pressure from the Daily Mail and its readers, no one would treat her and she died, leaving two kids behind. And all because she wasn't a UK citizen.
The Daily Mail is rotten to the core. They would relish the thought of multiculturalism dying since they detest foreigners of all kinds. Seriously, they probably had an orgasm writing the title of that article. They think everyone should be white, male and upper class.
That's seriously fucked up. The higher ups in every hospital that refused to treat her should be fired.
I'll be honest. I didn't even bother reading the article. I just am of the opinion that immigration needs to be handled differently in Europe (and Canada).
Immigration is always going to be a problem. With regards to Britain the trouble is that regardless of legislation or crack downs on illegal immigration, people still find their way through. In the millions. As a result thousands of people are pouring into more and more densely populated communities of familys from a wide variety of different racial and religious backgrounds. Religion is often the main benefactor in a split community, and with people hailing from Christian, Jewish, Islamic (and many other small sects) it makes some areas a breeding ground for prejudice and discrimination. The same thing is happening in most areas of Europe and America.
The Islamic world has evolved little socially over the years, and when people from this backwards society go into modern places such as Europe...Which practice more modern and enlightened ideals, conflict is inevitable. The next major war in Europe will not be the classical continential powers fighting each other, but rather will be a clash between the modern and primitive social aspects of European society. This was shown most visibly in the Islamic riots in France.
Throwing the Muslims out of modern countries is most certainly not the answer. However having them drop primitive customs which have no place in nations like the UK, France, Germany, Belgium etc. has to be put into effect if any sort of peaceful society is going to work.
There currently a debat about immigration in Europe with french german and british in London.
People are not patient enough. They open the doors and grant these people citizenship, but are not willing to wait more than 5 years for them to completely assimilate.
In the US, some groups took a very long time to assimilate. Sometimes 100 years, sometimes longer. But sometimes, they never did and changed America instead of the other way around. Chinese food is now as American as a hamburger. St. Patrick's day is celebrated by people Irish or not, Christian or not. I could argue that black music has changed an entire age demographic in society, especially rap.
So, don't be surprised limey Brits when a few white people start converting to Islam. It won't be unusual to see the crescent moon on a minaret from anywhere in the city. It won't be unusual to see white women flocking to mosques in headscarfs. There will be a little assimilation on both sides, if America is any model.
We have to apply forceful assimilation unless we want more shit like france. I dunno where i've heard it but an idea is to force immigrants to watch a video that contains:
1: A woman in bikini
2: Two men kissing
If they look away they're not welcome. There's also a related point in my next statement.
Naturally. The fear here, however, is that there will be TOO MANY immigrants leading to reverse assimilation. I have no desire to be forced to move to another country because some fucktards decide sharia laws would be a good idea.
In order for assimilation you simply need to restrict the amount of immigrants. When that is done, assimilation works FASTER. It needs less time and will cause less trouble. Letting in too many too fast is idiotic.
The difference is that the US doesn't have to face immigrants with such a different world view. The chinese, while being different from westerners are still not as different as religious immigrants with a vastly different view on how for example women should behave.
I have observed an interesting fact here in sweden. There are white girls dating arab men, but there are NEVER any white guys dating arab girls. There is clearly some degree of discrimination going on here.
The doors are open in France 35 years ago now. And kebab is more popular than hambuger. i thinks it's assimilate on both side but not for religion.
That the problem in the UK. There are too many radical muslim. More tham all Europe
Same thing in France or if you want to date with a arab girl, you must become muslim.......like Franck Ribery (french soccer player)
I'll just chime in my two cents.
Yeah, I'm a Canadian citizen of immigrant parents and yes I was taught in school the whole multicultural schpiel. I don't buy it. Rather then going with multiculturalism, my parents decided to go melting pot style and learn as much about Canadian culture as they could and that has benefited them alot.
Immigrants should be encouraged to become part of the country they should be living in, not told "well you're free to practice whatever you want, goodbye". I want to be called a Canadian, not a Canadian Filipeno or an Asian. I sometimes don't see why that's too much to ask for.
While I do believe people should be allowed to congregate how they wish, sometimes it gets to the point where things get real out of hand. Whether it be terrorism, like referenced, honor killings, or inbreeding (see here:Link removed, there has to be a limit to how far this stuff will go in the name of multiculturalism. Communities have to open up and embrace the culture that's around them; not the other way around.
As a child of immigrated parents in the UK, I have to agree with the melting pot idea. My parents basically thrust me into English schools and made me learn English and English culture the hard, fast way. I moved back to visit my grandparents for a while, and I realised how much of their native culture my parents had given up in the move to Britain.
The problem with the majority of muslims is that they fail to integrate. They come, they wall themselves off in small communities, they don't get involved with local culture and don't often interact with britons, and they just continue to live as if in the middle-east, despite the weather saying otherwise. Half of them don't actually speak english, and then they abuse british freedom to refuse freedom.
As one of many people who had to integrate themselves the hard way into British culture (the rules of humour, politeness and queueing are weird and difficult to grasp, especially for my parents still), I kinda resent this mindset. They cut themselves off from society and then protest when people fail to understand them, even though they have only themselves to blame as plenty of people from other faiths and cultures have worked hard to integrate themselves successfully.
Multiculturalism fails when two cultures are incompatible with one another. Many muslims can't reconcile the the law of their faith to the western culture of Britain, and as such they end up isolated and frustrated. However, I am acquainted with a muslim girl (who wears jeans, tight shirts, make-up and a headscarf) who, while still religious, views her relationship with society and british culture more important than the rules of her religion. As such, she is an example of one of many muslims who are compatible. It's the extremists that are the problem, but I have a feeling that in time the extremism will fade as new generations of muslims are born that are better adapted to British culture.
It's just a matter of time.
My mother is an immigrant so i'm mix. I'm born in France so i don't have problems. In France the problem is with the 3rd genration of child of immigrant. They are born in France, they have french nationality and they prefere say that they are algerian or morrocan.
Well... The fault is a little shared : many "root" frenchmen are unable see them as their fellows, but those young people don't want to get inside the french society.
And I actually have a similar behaviour, I'm very proud to be of Bosnian descent, and don't feel any particular patriotism toward France (but that's more because I don't trust the current government). But if you ask most frenchmen, they're not that patriotic either. They want to have a work, not to "serve the grandness of France". Just look at the constant demonstrations in the streets of Paris... Your regular french guy is rarely happy...
Still, I'm fully integrated into French society. I speak like any other frenchman, without hood accent, have finished business school (though, I have hard times finding a job ATM), and I even get pissed at those kids burning cars near me. I have no sympathy for those dimwits.
And I like it here, as sucky as it seems. There are worse places to be. France is not that bad.
If only hitler were still alive...
He means turks, after ww1 there was a huge influx of turks to fill in all the job position for men lost in the war. Much the same way as how britain got many immigrants from the commonwealth (especially jamaica and bangladesh) after the second world war.
i dont understand all this hatred because someone lives a different life style. I've fell in love with hindu, black, white, asians,... every kind of woman. And i have friends that come from all different backgrounds. How hard is it to accept the way people are and what they believe in. Live happy, get a life, do something with yourselves. I'm so glad my country has been through those horrible years. We still have a lot of these "Lets move.. too many black and latinos are moving in" but u know, everything takes time. U cant keep running from you fears unless ur super rich and can afford gigantic big ass houses with acres of land.
You must live in a bubble. The US has never officially had a policy of multiculturalism. People are expected to mix if they want to be successful. That said, there are lots of calls to kick out all the Mexicans, make English the only national official language, and plenty of people who want to legislate their flavour of Christianity into laws. Also, there are cases of honour killings happening in the US. And just today I read a story of an Atlanta-area man in court on various charges because he multilated his daughter's genitals, a custom from his native Ethiopia. This is the sort of cultural elements that should be weeded out and not allowed to take root. (Hence the discussion we're having of ghettoised immigrant populations not being a good thing.)
Again, this might be a problem of me not reading the article, which might be racist... But the idea of multiculturalism is one that seems to be leading to unrest in Europe, and could very well lead to problems in the US in the near future (though, as I stated, it has never been an official policy of the US).
And, it should be noted that Europe is not the United States (or Canada, for that matter). The US was founded on mutt culture (through much pain) and many European countries are very much monocultural. There's nothing forcing them to accept mass cultural upheaval.
The point is, better planning needs to happen with immigration if one still deems it necessary. Our political masters don't necessarily have a clue what they are doing. The social experiments they undertook might be bearing some undesirable fruits. The assumption we can all be all hugs and cuddles while holding hands across the globe and across disparate cultures doesn't have much historical evidence.
On this topic, it's hard to compare America with other countries because America is such a young coutry. We have adapted to many different cultures and even accepted parts of their culture as our own, However, this is coming to an end. Also, you can't say things like america has accepted this or that, because those things were already in a sense american. Like "Black" music. "Black" music or urban music IS American. It was developed in America by a group of people who were here from the start, American Blacks. The same can be said about the Irish and so on.