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Naruto's kyubbi power theory "spoiler?"

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by BloodyMagnus, Dec 24, 2004.

  1. BloodyMagnus

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    Now this is just something me and my friends were talking about. U know how naruto went kyubbi lvl 2 and had those chakra arms that sasuke couldn't follow with his sharingan. it seems to me that after the 3 year skip, naruto would become like the best person to go up against the sharingan as I assume he would gain some sort of mastery over his kyubbi powers and not just beg the fox to lend a bit of his chakra when he really needs it. Now if there is a lvl higher then kyubbi lvl 2 then wouldnt u think that the naruto's attacks would become even more chakra based and less physical.

    What do u people think?
     
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  2. Invisus

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    He shouldn't go farther then he has, it would be dangerous. Not only was it slowly destroying his body, it was also effecting his mind, Kyubi's chakra tends to effect Naruto in a negative way. He usually acts ferral and wild when he goes 'beserk' while he does retain most of himself the more energy he uses the heavier the effect it has on him.

    Though I am curious as to why Kakashi would condem Sasuke for using the CS while Naruto's Kyubi which is essentially the same thing is something they are trying to make Naruto use.
     
  3. Sh33p

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    I got the impression that Kakashi didn`t even really know Naruto could consciously use Kyuubi`s energy until his fight with Neji in the arena. Before that, he had come to the conclusion that the burst with Haku was just a fluke. Kakashi just wanted Ebisu to teach Naruto better control for the most part.

    Jiraiya is the one who wanted Naruto to learn how to use Kyuubi`s Chakra right off the bat. He also seems to be the only one who even understands how it works properly.

    There`s also the slight issue that Naruto is the first human being ever to possess access to Kyuubi`s Chakra in the first place. Unlike the Curse Seal, which could be studied without end thanks to the presence of Anko, no-one really had any way of knowing the full effects of the Nine-Tails Chakra on a human being until Naruto started using it. I`d gamble that even Sandaime and Jiraiya didn`t/don`t really understand how the fusion works in its entirety.
     
  4. Invisus

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    Kakashi's deal with the cursed seal is that he was worried that Sasuke would rely on it, by relying on it he's using it as a crutch and thus won't try to make his 'base' stronger. Essentially it's the same with Naruto, but always trying to call up Kyubi power he's not making himself any stronger, he's simply relying on a power that really isn't his own.
     
  5. RaitoRyuukashin

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    Yea i dont Think Kakashi even seen Naruto use his kyuubi powers... he missed the fight with neji, He was Busy fighting Zabuza to really see, came ot LAte During Sasuke fight...
     
  6. 4thokage

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    Yeah that would be awesome if he can finally control the kyuubi power they were saying that the kyuubi chakra mix up with narutos so maybe sometimes this will be his normal mode
     
  7. ramp3

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    I dunno... I am good at long time future theories only.

    Making a time lapse to the day tha naruto become tremendously powerfull, i think he will break the seal and:
    1) Fight the Kyuubi, defeat it. ( and possibly die )
    or
    2) Use Kyuubi as a summon. But I dont put much hope on this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2004
  8. BloodyMagnus

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    well think about it, when naruto went kyubbi lvl 1 for the first time against haku he was in a beserk state of mind but when he did again against neji he was fully in control of that power. It might be possible for him to do the same with lvl 2 or beyond that is if there is a further lvl. Maybe everytime when naruto uses the kyubbi chakra a tiny bit of it get mixed with his and becomes a part of his normal chakra. Also it seems to me that naruto (lvl 2 kyubbi that is) is like the best anti sharingan fighter since he tends to use those chakra claws or whatever those are and sharingan cant dedect that.
     
  9. Aidake

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    Yes, you're right, Naruto could control the Kyuubi chakra at lvl1, we don't know if he'll be able to at lvl 2 yet, but it's a good assumption that he will. However, don't forget that Naruto at lvl 2 Kyuubi (even with the chakra claws) didn't win against Sasuke's lvl 2 curse + sharingan (though we don't know how Sasuke fought back against those)
     
  10. 4thokage

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    I dont like the kyuubi summon theorie i dont think that anyone is strong enough to control the kyuubi if he summons him they all willl die
     
  11. BloodyMagnus

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    yes its true that he didnt beat him but its not like he had no chance of doing so. Also I think though i might be completely wrong but this lvl 2 kyubbi or any form that "might" come beyond it is like the perfect counter against the sharingan. In my opinion naruto just "story wise" wasnt meant to beat sasuke. I mean like wtf, then wat was the point of that whole chase and sasuke's search for power :huh, so just that in the end naruto will be dragging sasuke's half dead ass home, i dont think so :notrust
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2004
  12. Sh33p

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    Actually, Naruto had a far better chance of knocking Sasuke out like a light than anyone seems to give him credit for. Unfortunately, that whole fight wasn`t anywhere near as even as you might think for two main reasons.

    1: Naruto had been put through the wringer. He`d had his Chakra drained, replenished by a pill, chased his way through the rest of the forest, briefly tried to fight one member of the Sound 4, then tried to take on two of them at once, then went toe to toe with Kimimaro and had his ass kicked left and right by him. Sasuke, on the other hand, ended up 'dying,' submerged in the darkness of the Seal Container, but when he emerged, he was still at full power and his body was actually fresh, unlike Naruto`s.

    2: Sasuke was fighting to kill Naruto from the start. Naruto was trying to bring him back alive, and also couldn`t bring himself to believe that Sasuke had really gone psycho evil boy on him. While both their mindsets eventually changed and they really did start fighting on a more-or-less even playing field, this difference in the early going definately had a lasting impact. Sasuke managed to score a number of hits that, if not for Naruto`s stamina, would`ve been knock-out blows on almost any other ninja I can think of - from the sucker punch that sent Naruto flying across the waterfall to the one that threw him off the statue to the Chidori through the chest, Sasuke had a clear advantage in terms of how he was fighting without restraint.

    So you see, if Naruto hadn`t been so worn down both physically and mentally, and if he`d managed to cope with the shock of Sasuke`s betrayal sooner, there`s the very real possibility that he would have broken Sasuke`s legs/spine and dragged him back whether he wanted it or not.

    That`s my take on it o_o
     
  13. twisteddragon33

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    LOL, i love the way you finished that. But i have to agree, fighting to kill and fighting to not injure are very different and the killer has the distinct advantage.
     
  14. Aidake

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    "It's not like he had no chance of doing so" What do you mean by that? Sasuke kicked Naruto's ass even against a Kyuubified Naruto. I saw Sh33p's post and I agree with some of his points, but even against a Kyuubified Naruto, Sasuke wasn't even harmed. Look at the manga: even when Naruto lands a huge blow on him, Sasuke just gets up when he activates curse lvl 2 and LAUGHS at him because Naruto's NOT powerful enough to beat him/harm him. Also, if Sasuke develops Mangekyou sharingan, how on Earth is Naruto, Kyuubified and all that, going to counter it? He has no ability in Genjutsu as far as we know and only sharingan users can counter it (it's been said by Itachi himself)
     
  15. BloodyMagnus

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    Well the sound 4 mentioned that they cant fight in CS2 for a very long time since it messes up their bodies and shit, so if naruto just prolonged the fight he could had a shot at winning. Also about m.sharingan, well as guy stated u dont look at the person's eyes, but then again only he can do that. This is a personal opinion so no i am not stating this like a fact but if naruto gets hit with that forgot the name of that tech that messes ur brain (wat itachi did to kakashi) then the kyubbi might intervine cuz well he is a part of him and he doesnt want naruto to die. Again this is a personal theory opinion watever so dont bash me if it sounds stupid.
     
  16. Aidake

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    Not bashing, just disagreeing :) And you're right, Sasuke knows that if he stays in CSlvl2 he'll lose. I also thought about the possibility of Kyuubi protecting Naruto against Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan or (if Sasuke gets one) Sasuke's, but we just don't know if that will happen yet. Maybe in 3 years (if there's a jump) Naruto will have learned to fight against the Sharingan the way Gai said (focusing on the feet). Also, read Sh33p's post, I agree with most of what's written there in the advantages that Sasuke had over Naruto in that fight.
     
  17. ChaochroX

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    Kyuubi's chakra was never harmful to Naruto. Infact it would always heal him. Sure he would go a little beserk but I beat a hard ass boss on FFX with Auron in Beserk. Sure I couldn't control him but without that extra boost of energy Beserk gives you I would have never beat him. Sure this has nothing to do with Naruto but it was one cool ass victory he beraly had 200 hp. Any way the point is that Kyuubi dosen't harm Naruto.
     
  18. Rokudaime

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    kyubi never harm it..it just the chakra power overloaded..NAruto body is too small to use this huge power.
     
  19. hitokiritensai

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    the thing is, kyuubi naruto did hurt sasuke, as it was shown wherein sasuke could not keep up with naruto's movements

    sasuke was also hit by the chakra claws

    in the end, it came down to what the characters aimed for. naruto aimed his rasengan at the forehead protector, to prove that he was sasuke's equal. that is why he lost, and not in any way powerwise, skillwise(both did not use any tactics whatsoever) and whatnot.
     
  20. hitokiritensai

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    i think kakashi was more afraid of CS because of its side effects, as well as the degenerating effects on one's body if one depends on it. Depend on it too much, and sasuke won't be able to defeat itachi

    naruto does depend on kyuubi, but it is his advantage over the others, just as neji has byakugan and sasuke has sharingan and CS. jiraiya teaches naruto to take advantage of this to perform powerful jutsus, just as neji trains his sight and reflexes with byakugan to refine jyuuken. nothing wrong with it.

    the moment the 4th sealed kyuubi in naruto, it became his power. As jiraiya stated, yondaime purposely made it so that chakra would leak out to protect naruto, just like gaara's sand. it is now innate in naruto, and something he can learn to use as often as he wants in the future. it is no less not his power than sharingan, CS, gates, and byakugan are part of a shinobi's power.
     
  21. Invisus

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    There are no degenerating effects unless you leave it on until it permanently damages your body. It's unlikely that Orochimaru would give something that would potentially ruin Sasuke, and Kimimaro's body when he'd planned to take them over.

    Except that it makes Naruto a poor ninja. He relies on it far too heavily and it's why he lost to Sasuke, he's finally realized you can't just go Power vs Power and expect to win every time. That's the biggest problem with the Kyubi and the Cursed Seal.

    They are crutches.

    That doesn't take away from the fact that it's still a crutch. I didn't say it was unfair for him to have it, simply that it allows him to get away with things that regular ninja's wouldn't.
     
  22. hitokiritensai

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    that is what jiraiya is trying to do. teach naruto to utilize his second source of chakra to do jutsus that overwhelm. i wouldnt be surprised if he summons big toads, does yomi no uma, gamayo endan, and whatnot long before others may be able to think about doing such massive jutsus, and all by USING KYUUBI CHAKRA

    no matter what one says, naruto would have won the fight had he aimed to kill. he did not, and he aimed the rasengan at sasuke's forehead protector just to prove his point, that he is sasuke's equal.

    kyuubi does not necessarily leave naruto devoid of ninja skills. As seen in his fight with neji and gaara, as long as naruto is conscious he can combine ninja skills and kyuubi effectively. Once he gains consciousness of his "chakra claws" state, he can utilize his skills to the max.

    but, the bottom line is, kyuubi is part of his "base" now. all of naruto has been influenced by kyuubi, from his stamina, to kage bunshin, to his summonings, and his high non-Kyuubi mode chakra, all of these are part of kyuubi's influence. just as byakugan is part of neji's base and his whole fighting style is based upon it. by that argument, one can also say that neji is not that good of a ninja as he uses only taijutsu and does not use any gen/nin jutsu whatever. neji depends on byakugan too much

    the fact is, when one has an advantage that HUGE, such as a bloodline(sasuke/neji) or a demon(gaara/naruto)-gaara depends on shukaku more than naruto on kyuubi that has no huge disadvANTAGE in battle, it makes no sense not to use it. naruto just needs to use it better and be conscious about using kyuubi such that his skills grow with it.

    bloodlines are things that regular ninjas don't have that sasuke and neji get away with. i don't see you complaining about them. kyuubi is the same as a bloodline
     
  23. Inactive Saku

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    I fully agree with what you said, specially the last part. Kyuubi's chakra now belong to naruto, it is his chakra. Just as neji's byakugan, gaaras sand and the sharingan.
     
  24. hyuuga tae1

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    I agree with Hitokiri in that Kyuubi becomes Naruto's base, but I also feel what Invisus is saying. If it wasn't for the Kyuubi stamina, Naruto would have been dead, beat, and disgraceful long before. It seems to be the same storyline to each fight; get beat to a bloody pulp, heal, become mad, and use kyuubi chakra to become faster and stronger and perform boring, ungraceful, and uninteresting taijutsu.
    It's not even like he's using the extra chakra to summon Gamabunta, or perform super Katon jutsus. Naruto is heading down a DBZ line. Me, I'm hoping Naruto comes back smarter and more learned, being able to use the extra Kyuubi chakra (well, by then it shouldn't be extra, as Jiraiya's unseal-seal should be combining Naruto's and Kyuubi's chakra) to perform some uber jutsus. Naruto skill-wise isn't passed the lowest of genins, the only jutsus he can do are bunshin no jutsus which have their use, but they get kind of tiring to see (rasengan isn't a jutsu, it's just chakra outlet and control).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2005
  25. DeathGuise_of_Oblivion

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    Here's a thought: When Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra, he absorbs it. The chakra then enters his chakra reserves and replenishes the then pushes them further. After the fight and Naruto's chakra emptie, the reserves stay the same size. So when one day, Naruto's cakra reserve is so big and its empty, Kyuubi will be forced to give whats left of its chakra and will have nothing but its soul. Then when Naruto, eventually dies, the Kyuubi will enter the afterlife with Naruto due to it has no more chakra to protect itself and keep it in the living world.

    But its just a theory. :p
     
  26. Dammit Cubs

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    I don't think the kyuubi can hurt naruto in anyway or can it evolve to "take over" naruto. I only believe this because remember when he first when berserk and ludged at HAKU, it was still him. He might acted physically more different but when he found out that it was Haku, he stopped. Also, he went berserk because he thought haku killed sasuke.

    thats my cents....

    after the 2 years he has spent with Jairiya, I don't care too much about the amount of power he learns to control. Im more concerned with his technique. Power or no power, he's got no technique. Just looking at the fight with sasuke, sasuke clearly has an advantage of sheer fighting skill. I hope he is more polished, then combined with the kyuubi makes him more versatile.
     
  27. Syferz

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    Ok for everyone calling kyuubi a chruch, it really isn't if you think of it as a weapon. it's like turbo in a car some people can use it as a chruch but if it's used right it is a weapon. ALSO the kyuubi lvl 2 wasn't lvl2 nothing. Kyuubi didn't give him more power he basically took control; sure naruto could move by as sasuke said "it's like the charka has it's on will", and it does. I don't really think it gave him any more strength at all... sasuke was overwhelmed by the strength the only reason he was winning is cause he was looking a couple seconds into the future.

    Also sasuke's seal is like a cap it won't let him grow any more powerful because when he tries to draw strength from within himself, the seal would pop out instend and cause him pain. it is the reason why sasuke really stops growing so fast.

    CS lvl 2 sucks because it was beaten by all the other people in the group after sasuke so why would sasuke's be impossible to beat? Naruto is by far the fastest improving ninja there, and in all reality if you think about it hard enough the 4th at one point was probably just like naruto; why do you ask is this more then likely? because jariya LOVES to train losers. to train idiots and turn them into the best, and you wanna know why that is true? because he believes a naruto has more drive then a sasuke or neji.

    So if naruto is being trained by him, when naruto comes back he will not only be more powerful but he will become smooth and will know what he is doing on the battlefield!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2005
  28. Syferz

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    sorry i had to comment heh. Naruto fought gaara (possibly his toughest fight) without nine tails, and a matter of fact the only time he used nine tails was for 1 blow to end that stupid jutsu, which naruto could of probably done himself if he hadn't of fought neji eariler in the day.

    also nine tails will eventually just become narutos power. naruto has skill as a ninja and most of the genin only know a couple jutsu's, only the nin's like sasuke and neji know a bunch. Just stop saying he uses kyuubi as a chruch cause he only uses nine tails as a weapon, he is slowly using kyuubi as a way to counter other nin's "chruches" like curse seals. oh well thats my best shot at trying to get you guys to see that naruto has been using nine tails as a weapon. if he used it like a chruch none of the ninja's naruto faced during the turnament would of stood a chance cause they were all weaker then haku except MAYBE gaara...

    I also don't think he would of been beat and died long ago either... except when haku was fighting him (though i think haku was just going to do what he did to sasuke and make them all wake up later with that stupid super dude dead and MAYBE kakashi dead too, but I think kakashi was mostly testing and toying with him; because if you think back kakashi had mentioned that he hadn't been on the battlefield for a long time, so he was probably taking it nice and easy.

    sorry i keep loosing track... the only times naruto relied on the nine tails to survive was once during the fight with haku, and once during the fight with orochimaru (which was still a lop-sided fight, and once with neji just because all his holes were destroyed... if you really watch the series he was only using it as a last resort, not to show off... I don't think naruto liked to borrow power from nine tails. he isn't that type of character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2005
  29. hyuuga tae1

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    True, his fight with Gaara was pretty clean of Super Kyuubi influence. I wasn't saying the the Kyuubi was a crutch, I was saying that Naruto's use of that extra chakra just plain sucks. And Naruto uses Kyuubi against Haku (Haku wouldn't have killed him, just like he saved Sasuke, but he easily could have), Orochimaru (again Oro and his snake wouldn't have killed Naruto, not important enough, but easiliy could have), his first summoning of Gamabunta when he was about to die, Neji (who already had Naruto beat and could again have easily killed him), and Sasuke. The Sasuke fight doesn't count because at least there was a new aspect to the plus chakra. I don't mind Naruto having Kyuubi chakra, I would just like to see him do something with it.

    And Gaara is universes stronger than Haku. Sasuke with 1-tomoe Sharingan was able to follow Haku, and it was only until the Demon Ice Mirrors where Haku had the upper hand. I would put Gaara in front of both Sasuke and Naruto at this point; actually, besides Kabuto, I would put Gaara as the strongest non-Jounin that we know.
     
  30. Syferz

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    just about the haku thing with gaara... I actually think that haku was a harder fight then gaara not because of the enemy but because of their lvl. it's like anything else... they were teh noob and couldn't handle haku but gaara they could hurt and fight back against him. also all the characters use their own "super powers" heh i think naruto has been improving for a long time besides naruto has never understood this power of his until like the most recent parts of the anime (not manga) so give the guy a break he will get brighter... i think he is more clever then the other ninja's... clever like a FOX! :smile-big
     
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