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Naruto's Wind Rasengan won't be that simple.

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Rellik, Oct 27, 2006.

  1. Rellik Member

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    I see alot of people of people thinking that naruto's training will be a simple solution of adding more KBs, spinning and forming the chakra at the same time, or forming wind chakra first then spinning it. And while that's all fine from just a purely logical standpoint. I'm putting 10 to 1 odds on it not being that simple at all. Here are the key facts to why it can't be any of those 3 solutions (especially switching the order and doing it at the same time, even the more KB is a far stretch for me to accept). Kakashi and the 4th didn't figure it out. Here I will say it again Two prodigy ninjas failed at figuring it out. Kakashi had the rasengan completed for over 15 years, and in 15 years he never figured out to try switching the order or use KBs (Especially 3 years ago a random genin showed that using KBs made making the rasengan easier.) Seriously after like my 5th try I would have tried forming it at the same time or switching the order.

    Could any of you really expect Kakashi to not figure that out after 15 years and especially 3 years ago his subordinate showed that if you use KBs it makes the jutsus easier to create. Even if Kakashi never thought of that before, anyone with common sense would have been like hmm I wonder if that would make adding an element easier.

    Now onto the image that so greatly points to using more KBs or trying to spin and create wind chakra at the same time.


    Now looking at it shallowly it would have to do with either using more KBs or trying to do two opposite things at the same time. But the key is kakashi is shocked that naruto got something from his example. So as I said before I'd put money on it 10 to 1 Kishi is going to have some complicated solution, remember naruto is a clever kid and is probably thinking outside the box with kakashi's example.
     
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  2. ItsMrJedi Active Member

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    I think it will also be a complex jutsu which requires a lot of time to perform it. Probably at least 2 (i guess 3) KB's...so this will its disadvantage, when using it in a real battle.
     
  3. NecroMaster Newbie is a filthy word

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    The answer is infact a simple one, it just has more to do with how wind chakra is formed (hint; you grind your chakra against your chakra basically) and less to do with how to "add" wind chakra to the rasengan.
     
  4. joedoebell Mr. Enthusiastic

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    Using "the 4th and Kakashi couldn't figure it out, so it couldn't be that easy" isn't a valid point. Just because the overall method is easy to explain doesn't mean that actually doing it is going to be easy. It's similar to a chess match where you discover your opponent is careless when it comes to your bishops and rooks. "All you have to do is take the king with your bishops or rooks." Yeah.. but you have to devise the strategy to do it, anticipate his moves and react properly. It's easier said than done.

    Some are saying (I was at one point): "All it would take is for him to reverse the order of operations." But that doesn't mean we actually think it's easy. It's -still- the highest level form manipulation possible mixed with a very difficult elemental recomposition. It's just that he's basically stumped right now, because he doesn't even know how to do it. We're trying to envision how he's going to get past this block, what the methodology is. After that, he -still- has to master it. You know you need to peddle to make a bike move, and maybe you can get it to go a few feet before falling over, but you'll still need to learn how to keep it moving to really be "riding the bike". Same difference. Maybe some wind chakra will getting into the rasengan one of these ways, but that's still not a success until you completely convert it to wind chakra. Or to reverse the order you have the wind chakra but you have to get it to retain the shape and spin of the rasengan's form.

    And really, none of us know what Kakashi and the 4th have tried, and none of us know how far they got. We only know they didn't complete the jutsu. Maybe the 4th did use clones, or did use another order of operation and he passed the block that made it impossible any other way. That doesn't mean he had the experience, the strength, the control, or even the right elemental type to complete the jutsu.

    Personally, though, I've abandoned the reversing the order of operations idea for NecroMaster's idea. Regardless, I still don't see that predicting other methods or supporting current predictions by that page is "shallow".
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2006
  5. Rellik Member

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    I'm in disagreement with you.
    Kakashi's stats are pretty much maxed out except for stamina. We can pretty much assume that he is still greater than naruto in everything besides stamina and Wind manipulation (with stamina being kakashi's weakness). If you disagree then i will say that the 4th was considered one of the best ninjas if not THE best ninja, ever. Even regarded highly by all 3 Sannin, it's hard to believe he would be worse than naruto in anything except stamina and maybe wind manipulation (but with obviously nothing as his weakness). If it was one of the simple solution of any of the 3 I mentioned with no complex explanation as to why the other two couldn't figure it out, then Kakashi and the 4th should have or at least now, for kakashi, will be able to make an elemental rasengan as well. Now you can say well wind is easier to form into a rasengan and that would be a valid point, but I feel that will be such a cop out for the author to do that rather than have Naruto figure out a technique.

    This analogy is bad. In chess you have to take into account an unknown variable, a human's mind (or AI if you are playing the computer). Naruto has no unknown variable, so I get it's easier said then done part (that applies to everything) but it will be hard to take it in with so much hype around how awesome kakashi and the 4th are at ninjutsu. Again I'm not saying it's illogical just that how the story has been set up it will be hard to believe that those two could not figure it out. Do you a least agree with me on that point? My analogy would be like some 15 year old kid who couldn't do an MJ dunk well before hand (remember naruto still uses a clone to form a rasengan in battle), tries a dunk similar but more complex that even MJ couldn't do in his hay day or MJ's son, who had similar abilities although not as great, and the solution to completing the complex dunk was you jump off your left foot instead of your right foot.


    The rest of your post sounds like it agrees with me so I'm confused but I'm down with it working a little one of the other ways and naruto figures the rest out, or them explaining it was a really complex process to just switch steps. , but I can't see Kishi ever just saying well naruto added more KBs and it worked, or he just formed the wind chakra first and swirled it and bam it worked. If I was to sum up my opening point in one sentence is that the explanation for the completion of the rasengan won't be simple. All I'm saying is I'm pretty much guaranteeing it won't be as simple as this forum is making it out to be. Hell I could be wrong, noone can predict the future. I'm just saying if I am wrong and it is that simple I don't see how could people accept that was the answer. I know I couldn't. To me that would be like Konohamaru fighting sasori and winning. Sure it could happen logically but the way the plot has been set up it shouldn't.

    I really think my MJ analogy works well. smile-big
     
  6. Thorn Fully Awesome

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    In all honesty, the 4th's attitude towards completing the Rasengan could've been something like, "Hell, I can't be touched anyway... So, who cares?"
     
  7. Superb Herb Follower Of Jesus Christ

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    QFT.smile-big

    The fourth really didn't even need anything but a kunai. He was so fast even godly ninja fell to Hirashin. Shit took the strongest biju chakra demon ever to stalemate his ass.:nuts
     
  8. Rellik Member

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    ^^ I thought of that too but then why would Kakashi say Naruto would surpass the 4th if he didn't try to complete the rasengan.
     
  9. Lazarus safer healthier people

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    Eh... It won't be anything special. Even Kakashi's "innovative" learning technique using the clones probably could have been figured out by anyone who actually used them.
     
  10. The Fourth Hokage Shinobi Perfection

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    hmmm, Naruto's new jutsu isn't going to be that simple....? Thanks Captain Obvious. Had you not said so, we never would've realized it.
     
  11. Al?l? Sweet dreams

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    Well, many figured Shikamaru's "lightbulb" moment will be something other than him moving Hidan out of the circle and look what happened.

    I want some thought provoking idea as well, but I don't know if it'll happen. More times than not, Kishimoto doesn't dissappoint.
     
  12. Rellik Member

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    Half the forum thinks otherwise, so it's apparently not that obvious. I, personally, thought it was obvious too.
     
  13. Hiruma The King has Come!

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    Quoted for truth.
     
  14. lekki Specialist

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    While this is the greatest post of all time right now, it was still stated that the rasengan was incomplete, even by the 4ths standards.

    It turns out that anyone who is jounin level can do the rasengan when it comes down to it. 4th just thought it up first. But to make it godly, to make it a true jounin level attack, you need to add an element into it and maybe this feat requires stupid amounts of chakra and the only person in Konoha who has stupid amounts of chakra to throw away and still keep fighting effectively is Naruto.
     
  15. OROCHIMARU~SAMA HEBIKAGE

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    I hope it won't resemble 'the spirit bomb' from DBZ...
     
  16. Tempos Yes. Tempos. Shine.

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    The example of one looking left while the other looking right possibly made him think that, if he uses his wind chakra with one KB and Rasengan in the other then he combines them. Or the same thing just with seperate hands then joining them.
     
  17. Locksmith EXPLETIVE DELETED

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    I think the lightbulb moment was Naruto figuring out that he could do two things at once. He has been forming the Rasengan then trying to add the wind element. He will now probably use two KBs, one to add form, the other to add wind, while he himself just tries to maintain it.
     
  18. SexyNoJutsu Zentastic

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    Left hand
    Right hand

    That is all =)
     
  19. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

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    Did Kakashi say that he failed to add any element to it, or just his "lightning-natured" element?

    Because that could be a big indication as to why Naruto might be the one to complete this.
     
  20. QFT, and for Kakashi since he already has the Rasengan and Chidori and he knows he's not as good as the Fourth, he wouldn't even waste time trying to master it.
     
  21. Aizen Fuck Bleach :(

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    "Naruto's Wind Rasengan won't be that simple."
    R u srius??? yondaime couldnt finish it, so it should be easy for naruto ;)

    /sarcasm

    didnt think anybody actually thought that it would be easy to finnish... i guess i were wrong...
     
  22. loscar141 Master Kon's Disciple

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    i think the fourth could have completed the resengen, if he was still alive
     
  23. Simulacrum Makes Idiots BAWWWW

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    Look at how Naruto has been training so far. He makes a group of 200 clones, and each one tries to invent the new jutsu alone. That's where he went wrong.

    Now, all 200 clones are going to focus on working together, and he'll probably figure it out in an hour or two.
     
  24. CanadianKakashi Member

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    Simulacrum is right. Teamwork, a common theme in Naruto, will be the key in discovering how to produce the Windsengan.
     
  25. DesignCore "The flying," son of none

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    kakashi cant use as many clones as naruto because of him not having as much chakra.

    so he cant use KBS to do things like that.

    even with narutos chakra he can only do 200 clones.
     
  26. FreakyJason Member

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    I think Kakashi mentioned that this jutsu would be Naruto and Naruto's alone, that no one else could do. It would suck if Naruto completed it and then Kakashi and Sasuke just copied it.

    So I think it will be specifically tied to something that only Naruto can do. Those things so far include Mass Kage Bunshin and Kyuubi. I would assume it involves one of those two.

    Something like reverse the order wouldn't do because then Kakashi and Sasuke could just copy his jutsu, which I highly doubt will happen.
     
  27. HolyCow Chaos Theorist

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    it's not simple i agree, and i hope the jutsu will look good as hyped.
     
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