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Nidaime and Kakashi related?

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by Aidake, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Aidake Member

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    Hello everyone, this is the first thread I've started after some thoughts popped into my head :) I know there are probably hundreds of crazy theories out there, but please bear with this one and give me your thoughts:

    Lately I've been watching the Zabuza arc and also the Kisame/Itachi/Kakashi battle, and I had my curiosity piqued by the physical similarities between Nidaime and Kakashi. I know many of you will probably think that this is ridiculous to base an argument on physical appearances, (think of the 4th and Naruto) BUT...

    I couldn't help but notice that Nidaime's water jutsus were very powerful and that no other ninja in Konoha seems to use them (not that we've seen so far). Also, while watching the Zabuza arc, I noticed that Zabuza says "Why was he able to use that jutsu...could he be...?" and never finishes the sentence. Interesting yet?

    Now, at that point, I didn't think much of anything, because we all know by now that Kakashi is the son of a genious who was respected as much (if not more than) the sannins. Now, I know that many shinobis have distinctive techniques, but it struck me as odd that Kakashi seems to use water techniques in both the fights where he's been involved. (if there are more, point them out ot me)

    Next point: During the Itachi/Kisame/Kakashi, etc match, I noticed that Kisame would say:
    "The exact same jutsu?" (when Kisame was attacking Asuma) Then later,
    "So it's Mizu Bunshin? (water clone)...looks like the copy ninja has come a long ways in learning our jutsu".

    Also, when Kisame threatens Kakashi, Itachi says "Stop, Kisame, if you go after that man, you will not be forgiven" and I know that Kakashi is considered an elite jounin of the Leaf and that many of the other jounins would go after Itachi/Kisame if Kakashi was killed, but it seemed that Itachi left something out of that statement.

    Now, this may not prove anything, but... anyone else see a relation?

    Other ideas that made me think he might just be related to the Nidaime were that perhaps the Nidaime would be related to Hatake (older/younger brother, cousin) and families are known to maintain their techniques within their families, so Kakashi's could have been passed down from Nidaime to Hatake to Kakashi.

    *spoiler warning*
    However, he may not have gotten as far along in developing them because of what happened to his father, and the Nidaime was most likely dead by the time Kakashi was born (I haven't looked at the Naruto Timeline recently)
     
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  2. Toxico New Member

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    This is some wird s*** man but that sound really good if it wasen't for the fact that he can copy other ninjas jutsus and make them better... but i don't know you may be right... we have to wait and see...
    hey another thing the 4th can't be related to kakashi couse they are likely the same age...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2005
  3. ---Kenji-kun Genin

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    Hmmm... yes... I don't think he's related...
     
  4. Aidake Member

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    Just think about it, that's why I said that I haven't looked at the Naruto Timeline, I want to know if it could fit. Also, remember that Kakashi is somewhere around 30 (27?) and that the 3rd ruled until he was 68, and in the anime it looks as if the Nidaime was 20-30 something when they gave Sarutobi the title of Hokage. That (somehow) made me think that younger than Nidaime, but older than the Sannin. And as far as I know, Kakashi is at least 15-20 years younger than the Sannin (Orochi was in what, his 40's-50's when he attacked Konoha?) Just let me know what you all think :)
     
  5. Shikamaru-sama Been here too long

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    Toxico - fool, lol

    i think thats quite a good theory actually, im not sure if i believe it but it will definalty recieve some shika-sama thought,
     
  6. wingsofevil Banned

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    thats a good theory but he could've copied both techniques from anyone. but nidaime and kakashi both have gray hair and are always serious all the time, and you dont see any other person with gray hair around the village except for old people. if kakashi and nidaime are related then i think kakashi would be his son or his nephew. considering that kakashi is the only jounin that has the highest chance from any other jounin in the village to become hokage, it seems that kakashi inherited some power and strength from nidaime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2005
  7. SharinganBattousai Hitokiri Battousai

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    Aidake specifically said can't be his father because Kakashi's father is already mentioned....so can't be his father but maybe Uncle or somehow related i would agree...but then it would make Kakashi related to Tsunade because Tsunade's Grandfather is Shodiame and Shodiame is the brother of Nidaime so yeah...it would help if Kishimoto told us what were the names of the Hokages other then Sandaime
     
  8. stormrunner Wants a Custom Title

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    The water jutsus are just random since Kakashi has the sharingan and has copied THOUSANDS of jutsus. He has most likely had several mission in the water country and encounterd several mist nins and copied their jutsus. As for kisames statment: "the exact same jutsu" it is because Kakashi either knows the jutsu or because he just copied it. I agree with you that Kakashi and Nidaime are similar in apperances, but you agree with the fact that is not enough. Also we have to keep in mind that the first and the second where brothers and that Tsunade is the first's grand daughter so that would make her Kakashis aunt or something if Kakashis father is the son (just an idea) of Nidaime. And there doesn't seem to be any relations between them, but then gain, Kakashi is very mysterious about his past and his life.
     
  9. Aidake Member

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    Hear hear, I agree that the suiton jutsus that Kakashi performs could've been copied with his Sharingan. However, it was Zabuza's comment that really threw me off because he seemed to imply that Kakashi was "something" when he said "could he be...?" Could he be.. what? That's the question I'm trying to find an answer to, even if it's just a theory. Also, I thought Hatake could be the son of Nidaime, but that seems a little too "surreal", and that's why I thought maybe he was a relative (cousin, second cousin even). Anyway, it is just a theory and there's not much proof out there, but I'd like to see if anyone else can point out evidence to the contrary or to support it. :)
     
  10. Toxico New Member

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    lol all of ya...
    Maby he was just saying
    "could he be Reading my thoughts"
    "Could he be for real"
    "Could he be So good"
    "could he be copying the jutsu so fast"
    "could he be that good"
    "could he be serius"

    All is possible.. but not
    "could he be the son of nidaime"
     
  11. Aidake Member

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    You contradict yourself with that statement actually...

    "Could he be ... the son of someone who has the ability to manipulate water?" Why not?

    We know Kakashi is the son of a genious... but where does Hatake's genious come from? Perhaps it runs in the family through genetics :p Think beyond the normal parameters (Ibiki said that to his brother Idate)
     
  12. Kamendex Retired from Forum

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    Idate is filler lol, and Kakashi has no chance of bieng related to Nidaime

    When Zabuza said "Could he be...?" He was going to finish it by saying reading my mind

    Because he answers it in the second encounter, he tells us that he couldnt have been reading his mind.

    Also like others have Mentioned, Kakashi has a father. Nidaime has a brother, a neice and a newphew. If kakashi indead was releated to Nidaime wouldnt he have been mentioned somewhere, and i doubt Nidaime had a wife; afterall he has no children from what we have seen
     
  13. ihsankhairir Random Visitor

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    aidake, when you said hatake, you mean hatake sakumo right?

    because I was a bit confused when reading your posts.

    EDIT: I was confused because kakashi is a hatake too (Hatake Kakashi)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2005
  14. Oldboy Guest

    Yea no relation except the hair ^^. And that water thing is that kakashi has sharingan so he could copy other ninjas abilirites but i dont think nidaime is an uchia so he should have that ability because of his blood line.
     
  15. Aidake Member

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    Well, like I said before... people think Naruto and the 4th are related, and what do they bring up? Physical similarities :p

    Also, Nidaime isn't an Uchiha from what little we know about him, because that would mean Tsunade could possibly have the bloodline ability. However, I stated before (again, read up on my theory) that Kakashi could have a mother who was an Uchiha. I'm not leaving that possibility out because we know very little about Kakashi's past.

    Also, I did mean Hatake Sakumo, ihsankhairir.
     
  16. wherezmytofu Better then you

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    i posted this a while back and was hocked! and now that post is deleted
     
  17. RaitoRyuukashin Banned

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    because when you pst 27 messages a day most of them are considered spam....



    And i dont think there related but nice theory
     
  18. Aidake Member

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    Just to defend a point: I know Idate is filler, but the quote Ibiki said still stands.

    When Zabuza said "Could he be..." you have no indication that he was going to finish it by saying reading my mind. Zabuza was already familiar with the way the Sharingan worked. I'll put up the quote again:

    "Why was he able to use that jutsu...could he be...?"

    It's the part where he's asking himself WHY was he able to use that jutsu that gives the question "could he be...?" the idea that I suggested.
     
  19. Peippo New Member

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    I think he's asking the question because he himself didn't actually get to finish the jutsu, but Kakashi copied it from him, before he got to finish it.
    Kakashi predicted the last handseal with his sharingan and was therefore able to use the jutsu before Zabuza.
    And it is very unlikely that Nidaime and Kakashi would be related, you'd think someone would've said something if it were possible.
     
  20. Polalion Chou Tensai

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    Over the battles Kakashi has shown preference in Doton and the Chidori, when there is no doubt he isn't copying.

    Note: Earth Digging against Sasuke in early part of story, and Tsuiga against Zabuza.

    I like the theory, and I don't know about this, but I see this as a poke towards the Yondaime/Naruto relationship theory.
     
  21. ThiefKing Your Almighty God

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    Didn't Kakashi tell Sasuke that he saw his family get killed? You know what I'm talking about *nudge nudge* When he tied him to the tree and Sasuke had that big...uh...breakdown?
     
  22. Aidake Member

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    From what I know, he only said that he no longer has any important people because they have all been killed already, and that he's lived much longer than him. We know what happened to his father, but we don't know what happened to his mother though. She's never been mentioned. I don't know what that has to do with the theory :p

    Also, even before Zabuza asks himself "could he be..." Sasuke wondered what was going on. I mean, for manga readers, we know where the sharingan comes from, but at this point even Sasuke wondered "what's going on? The sharingan is a special physical condition that only appears in a select few members of the Uchiha clan... COULD HE BE...? Could...Kakashi be related to an Uchiha, perhaps? :p

    Further, when Zabuza attacks Kakashi with the water dragon blast technique and Kakashi copies it, this is what the anime shows/has translated:

    Zabuza: Strange, what's going on? ....The Sharingan can absorb and copy techniques, but... why was he able to use that jutsu?... Could he be...?

    So, that's the second time someone has asked why Kakashi has the ability to a) use the Sharingan, and b) use jutsus that supposedly, are either above his level or impossible for him to use because of ability. It is only AFTER that when Kakashi copies the same exact movements by keeping Zabuza hypnotized. That "Could he BE..." doesn't mean (to me) that Kakashi is reading Zabuza's mind, but that there is something else going on. It's that "something else" that made me take a stab at Kakashi's past.

    Also, yes, this is a poke at the Yondaime/Naruto theories lol and I think it's funny because I am very against Yondaime being related to Naruto :D (you can go read those posts though, as I'm not going to discuss it here)
     
  23. Polalion Chou Tensai

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    But technically, Sharingan can copy any technique that is not to unique to an Advanced Bloodline.

    Zabuza doesn't have any advanced bloodlines, maybe a badass attitude, so it's not entirely logical.
     
  24. Aidake Member

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    True, Sharingan can copy any technique, but the question that is being asked is... why can Kakashi USE those techniques? Also, can you quote me what you read that made you think about that? I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from, that's all.
     
  25. Polalion Chou Tensai

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    That could be the start of the whole hypno trick. Perhaps from then on he was playing the mind games, trying to make Zabuza think Kakashi can read minds.
     
  26. Son_Pan Now Here Is Nowhere

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    LOL! interesting theory, but i highly doubt that.
     
  27. Aidake Member

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    Oh I highly doubt they're related too :) I'm just exploring the possibility
     
  28. gambunta wannabe ANBU

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    Off topic:i don't read the manga can anyone guide me to a threat that speaks of hatake sakumo so i can know a little bit more of what we are discussing here is this the same hatake that iruka mentions that died in the fight for konoha against orochi

    Kakashi said that all his family was dead and that theory would actually making him family with tsunade meaning that there is still some family left :confused
     
  29. Polalion Chou Tensai

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    Erm, Aidake is suggesting that Kakashi is related to Nidaime, the second Hokage, not Tsunade, the Fifth.
     
  30. gambunta wannabe ANBU

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    I know but isn't nidaime like tsunade grandfather making them relatives
     
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