1. Dismiss Notice
  2. OPFC

    Are you an artist that loves One Piece? Join the OP Fanart Contest in the Ohara Library!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  4. GN

    Come join the Football/Soccer Women's World Cup and Copa America predicting competitions.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice

  6. Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest -- Drinks!
    Dismiss Notice

No arms worse than poisoned by tsunade?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Uchiha Q, May 30, 2007.

  1. Uchiha Q 1718

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    311
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Reputation:
    OK ill try to correct my grammer .

    People keep saying to me that Jiraya was Owned by a no armed OROCHIMARU , and think that the poison Tsunade (one of the best meds) gave him was nothing .

    Jiraya was trained by the 3rd , and Jiraya trained the 4th , and trained Naruto and we all see how strong both naruto and 4th are .

    The battle between Jiraya and orochimaru , was only 20% of what jiraya can do.

    and orochimaru had some kind of cure to get rid of the pain as i remember.

    So i only ask of you not to judge Jiraya when we havent seen his TRUE powers..yet.


    ----

    And to all who think my grammer is bad well it was 3 am when i made this topic and english is like my third language so give me a break ...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2007
    Tags:
  2. mortsleam Night D. Mare

    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Reputation:
    I understand the last sentence, but nothing else.
     
  3. FartyFarty PoopyPants poopy poopy poop poop

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Reputation:
  4. Crimson2Phoenix7 Banned

    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Reputation:
    I adivise you to stop making threads that make Jiraya look s tronger than he really is. You'll really regret it, trust me.
     
  5. mortsleam Night D. Mare

    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Reputation:
    Kisame > Jiriaya.

    Pervert is trash he can't even beat Oro fucking weakling, TenTen could beat Oro...lol.
     
  6. Larisha Otogakure's village idiot

    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Reputation:
    Tenten couldn't beat Temari, much less Orochimaru's finger.

    You didn't need to start an entire thread about this, it belonged in the other thread.

    The poison wasn't fatal, was it? Orochimaru was literally dying, even as he was standing there fighting. His arms were decaying while still attached to his living body, causing massive pain. On top of all that, it's his arms, so he can't use any jutsu.
     
  7. ironblade_x1 Emperor

    Messages:
    4,545
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    633
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Reputation:
    making threads about jiraiya's strength is the equivalent of making threads about pairings.

    except less fapping
     
  8. IBOSTYLE11 The black Shikamaru -_-

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Reputation:
    talk about poor grammar O_o

    this can be debated both ways, but I'd say that Jiraiya had the worse handicap. So far, Oro hasn't really shown a crazy dependence on ninjutsu even though he holds it so highly. He's used a lot of snake hand techniques and his sword when fighting. The snake hand technique was disabled in that fight but he still had his tongue (acts like a long range arm) and the sword to fight with. Also he had Kabuto to help with summoning in that fight.

    Jiraiya didn't seem to have full coordination of any of his limbs due to tsunade's poison and even the ninjutsu he did manage to use was lacking in his sight. I don't necessarily think that he's more powerful than oro overall, but I'd still say he had the greater handicap.

    On another note, he HAD to have the greater handicap, otherwise the 2-on-1 would have been a down right massacre, even with a greatly battle deprived tsunade present.
     
  9. Gamabunta is yes, next

    Messages:
    3,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Reputation:
    Your blatent inability to string sentences of jibberish together coherently has earned you a new scout badge.

     
  10. Astaroth ど~~ん!

    Messages:
    4,697
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Reputation:
    Nailed it!. We must remember that Tsunade's a medical ninja. She knows how to make poisons that can seriously mess you up.
     
  11. CM Pope The Holy Father

    Messages:
    23,282
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    713
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Reputation:
    You're new so I'll cut you a break and not neg rep you...despite the fact that your status on that front is "Sucks." at the moment.

    Their handicaps were about the same in that Jiraiya couldn't mould his Chakra properly and Orochimaru couldn't use seals.

    The point is that Orochimaru had only some Taijutsu and his body altering and that is basically it. Jiraiya could still use Jutsu because the worst of the poison was clear by that point so he wasn't so dizzy, the only effect it had on him at that moment was his Chakra going wonky.

    Orochimaru was in a worse condition than Jiraiya at that point.
     
  12. Larisha Otogakure's village idiot

    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Reputation:
    ...Gamabunta's post wins.

    Even Tsunade noticed Orochimaru's condition, right off the bat. She stated that he was suffering a high fever and that his heart was racing. It wasn't so much his arms, as it was the effect that his arms were having. Blood loss, weakening, the pain, etc.

    Yes, but if Orochimaru had been having trouble with his arms, he could have used one of the (hundreds, thousands) jutsu that he knew to help him.
     
  13. Vandal Savage The Magician Supporting Staff

    Messages:
    55,519
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    1,883
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Flag:
    Sweden, United States
    Here we go again. Now the thread has a high possibility of turning into a Jiraiya/Itachi/Orochimaru debate.
     
  14. jhin22 Yellow Flash of Konoa

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Reputation:
    I think oro was in a worse state than jiraiya during the sannin fight. he lost his arm's soul to the death god.
     
  15. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,042
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Reputation:
    Orochimaru's arms were essentially dead. Necrotic flesh attached to his body by his shoulders, that left his with a high fever, in almost unbearable pain, and an erratic heartbeat.

    In addition to most of his jutsu being sealed away.

    Oro had the worst handicap...what happened to him was designed to kill parts of his body; Tsunade only wanted Jiraiya to not interfere, otherwise, she'd have poisoned him to kill him.
     
  16. bloodstains the town fag

    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Reputation:
    if this thread is trying to prove that jiraiya is stronger than oro....then it fails hard.

    even if oro didnt have legs he'd win. so stfu.
     
  17. Spencer_Gator Pain is a god.

    Messages:
    10,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Reputation:
    Jiraiya hasn't shown me anything yet..his summons do his work, while he does nothing.
     
  18. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,042
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Reputation:
    If that were the case, and Oro relied more on other forms of ninja combat than his forbidden and prized ninjutsu, then he essentially freaked out over nothing, when Sarutobi said that sealing his arms would remove all his jutsu, wouldn't it?

    Which would also mean that Sarutobi essentially died for...pretty much nothing. In your eyes, Oro would still have most of his relied-upon jutsu, so it wasn't a big deal, right?

    So, why did he show more fear at that point, than any other point in the manga?

    At least Jiraiya had his ninjutsu, even if it were watered down, he still had them.

    Oro had dead arms attached to his body. Necrotic flesh wreaks havoc on the body it's attached to.

    Not unless Oro were at a level above the other two.

    And, as you said, he had Kabuto there, who might almost be a match for Tsunade in her prime, by her own admission.
     
  19. IBOSTYLE11 The black Shikamaru -_-

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Reputation:
    Oro has an insane amount of stamina. He had to have in order to take that many power punches from Tsunade, so an issue of pain, fever, and an erreatic heartbeat don't really handicap him. He was missing his arms but b/c of his tongue, that really only left him with 3 limbs instead of 4 for taijutsu. His true handicap was his inability to use ninjutsu on his own, but from the fights we've seen so far, he didn't even use these ninjutsus that he valued so much in a fight.

    And Tsunade poisoned Jiraiya with the intent of completely handicapping him until she had truly decided to use him as a sacrifice to bring back her loved ones. Even if it didn't kill him, it DID handicap ALL of his abilities except the ability to think. There's no proof that he had FULL control of these abilities at any point in the fight (not even the very end).
     
  20. Larisha Otogakure's village idiot

    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Reputation:
    But what's to say that Orochimaru wouldn't have used his ninjutsu if he had the chance? We don't know, because during his first major fight, he used Edo Tensei and he didn't need to use any others. Did he use the darkness jutsu? I don't remember if that was him or one of the hokages.

    Post-time skip, he didn't really have that much chance to use ninjutsu. KN4, yeah, but after that...

    But the point is, we don't know if he didn't use his ninjutsu because he couldn't, or because he just didn't.

    And he was missing two limbs. Making a total of five(two legs, two arms, tongue) for taijutsu, or six, if you count Kusanagi.
     
  21. Yakushi Kabuto Socks Activate! Shape of a

    Messages:
    45,865
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007






    Honestly, we have no idea how badly either of the Sannin were handicapped. Jiraiya speaks of how pathetic the swamp he created was even though it was large enough to almost sink one of the snakes in and Orochimaru, although he could still use Kusanagi and his tongue to attack, still had to feel the effects of having dying arms.
     
  22. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

    Messages:
    47,494
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006






    It's hard to tell but losing your arms can be a real bitch.Look what happened to zabuza. He lost his arms and a bunch of fodder THugs (not even fodder ninjas) WERE ABLE TO STAAB HIM UP.To me i guess tsunade's drug would have affected JIRAIYA the most mainly because all his moves revolve around chakra usuage and since tsunade's drug screws that up Jiraiya had his disadvantage as well.
     
  23. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,042
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Reputation:
    She only hit him once in the manga. Granted, he still had a face to call his own, but she only hit him once to end the fight. Once again, Oro had dead arms attached to his body that were caused by having his soul's arms removed from his body. They weren't just broken arms or sprained wrists, his arms were dead. Because of that, he had a high fever, erratic heartbeat and was in almost unbearable pain. The first two were stated by Tsunade as she looked at him and the last was shown in his lair. There's no debating this. I don't see how being in almost unbearable pain, with dead flesh attached to your body wouldn't handicap Orochimaru. Just because he was able to evade Tsunade's attacks and smiled the pain off when he was attacking Jiraiya, doesn't mean he wasn't handicapped. I mean, it's not like Jiraiya showed his handicap in his face either.
    The only fight he actually had to plan for, his fight with Sarutobi, he used pretty much nothing but ninjutsu. Yes, he had his feet and his sword weilded by his mouth. That's still a lowered taijutsu effectiveness than what he'd be otherwise capable of.

    The only fight he himself didn't use any ninjutsu with, was against Jiraiya in that very same fight. Against KN4, all those Shadow Snake Hands, the Triple Rashoumon kuchiyose? That's ninjutsu. Stuff he was incapable of using by himself durnig the Sannin fight. Kabuto had to summon Gamabunta for him.

    He may not have had absolute full control over his chakra, but that doesn't negate the fact that he still had access to all of his ninjutsu, especially since Jiraiya heavily relies on his summons to fight.
     
  24. Larisha Otogakure's village idiot

    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Reputation:
    No offence, but that's the second funniest typo I've seen today. :D
     
  25. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

    Messages:
    20,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Reputation:
    i think no arms and poisoned were meant to be roughly equivalent handicaps, so that we could not draw any real inferences about jiriayas powers from that battle alone
     
  26. IBOSTYLE11 The black Shikamaru -_-

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Reputation:
    I don't just base his stamina on that hit from tsunade alone though. The guy has a body that can take a lot of damage, no matter how you look at it. Pain hasn't stopped ANYBODY from fighting all out, and I know someone with an irregular hearbeat in real life that function perfectly fine. Also, a fever can make you tired but it won't completely kill your ability to do things either. A couple of Michael Jordan's best games were when he had the flu. What Tsunade said doesn't take away from his combat ability, it was just a showing of her medical knowledge. As I said b4, w/o the arms he was really only handicapped by one limb on the average person b/c of his tongue.

    Neither of them could use summons right when they fought each other so that's a double fault (this includes rashoumon and edo tensei). When you think about that, he didn't use ninjutsu against the 3rd. I already mentioned his snake hand technique (which incorporates all the snake techniques). As for Jiraiya, he fights using summon frogs, which you can clearly see that he couldn't use right by him summoning the baby frog.
     
  27. Larisha Otogakure's village idiot

    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Reputation:
    Let's turn this around for a moment. Assuming the purpose of this thread is, infact, to prove that Jiraiya is as strong or stronger than Orochimaru.

    Ninja need to be flexible- they have to have the ability to change their plans to the situation. Sudden disabilities, enemies that weren't there before, etc. The fact that Jiraiya's poisoning completely screwed his ability to fight is pathetic, because it only weakened one section of his fighting. Hate to tell you, but taijutsu doesn't need chakra focus.

    If he were such a great ninja, he would have been able to change his fighting style to fit his needs. Weakened in ninjutsu and genjutsu? Use taijutsu. But he simply wasn't strong enough to do so.

    Orochimaru, on the other hand, was completely disabled in the ninjutsu ability, and weakened on taijutsu. Genjutsu by itself doesn't seem to be fatal. But he worked with it, and defeated not only Jiraiya, but also delivered fatal blows to Tsunade, who was full strength except for her mental weakness.
     
  28. dregoth Cooking Genius

    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Reputation:
    Yes, the poison from a slut is stronger than the curse of the death god.

    Plus Oro was toying with Jiraiya. He didn't even consider Jiraiya a worthy victim of his Kusanagi. The only threat on the battlefield was Tsunade.

    Neg rep for your stupidity and Pos reps for Larisha.
     
  29. IBOSTYLE11 The black Shikamaru -_-

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Reputation:
    I'm sorry but your reasoning is a bit off. Taijutsu DOES rely on chakra focus. It has already been explained in the manga/anime that the better the chakra focus, the better a ninja can move/attack. That's why Tsunade/Sakura can hit so hard, and why Sasuke got faster and could avoid Haku's one hand jutsu after the tree training, and that's why Jiraiya said Naruto was having so much trouble standing on water b4 he removed the seal that Oro placed on him. There are more examples of this but I won't go into it. This means Jiraiya was weakened in ALL categories.

    As for shidoshi, you give valid arguments, but my 2-on-1 theory still hold validity. Tsunade praised Kabuto for his abilities but that had nothing to do with the battle between the sannins and there summons. And if Oro was stronger than the others (which he very well may be) the handicap of the others would NOT have to be higher than his since he's already handicapped with being in a 2-on-1.

    On the subject of using their handicaps to decide who's stronger... I've already said that the point of the handicaps were to make that indistinguishable.
     
  30. emanresu NF God

    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Reputation:
    Orochimaru is unbeatable. No shinobi yet able to make him shivers
     
Loading...