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OBD Convo #291:Spirit Gun

Discussion in 'Meta-Battledome' started by Claudio Swiss, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    Why did Toei have to turn Toppo into a bitch in the following episode :(
     
  2. The Immortal WatchDog don't step in my yard

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    He's a Tolkien purist near as I can understand and those guys tend to obsessively ignore all the action, high tier stuff and battle scenes because Tolkien felt they would distract from the story for the films.

    Not understanding that you can't tell an epic of any kind in visual medium without battles.
     
  3. NostalgiaFan Well-Known Member

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    Does not sound like much of a Tolkien Purist then because even with how much he hated war he still went out of his way to at least describe the battles and even show the very important ones like Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith.
     
  4. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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  5. Unlosing Ranger Transcending Time

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  6. Imakarum Mirabilis Final Zoalord

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    Almost every antiwar movie ever that’s a good movie has action in it although its usually a fucked up kind.

    Apocalypse Now wouldn’t have meant shit if we didn’t see what war in Vietnam was like or just how Kurtz had gone.

    Quite frankly, this “purist” is dumb.
     
  7. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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  8. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    :kobeha
     
  9. The Immortal WatchDog don't step in my yard

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    he really didn't compared to a lot of other authors of his era. Compare say any fight scene in any Conan story to anything done in any LOTR story at all. Tolkien included that stuff because they were part of an epic story, but he gave only enough details to ensure we were captivated by the fighting and understood the scale and what was at stake but beyond that? He never really went into depth the way Howard or even Louis did. So yeah while Tolkien included the epic battles and shit, he for some insane reason thought they weren't what got peoples blood up, he thought for example when the Mumakill arrive at Pellenor it wasn't what got people tense and nervous and wondering if the armies of light were gonna make it. The Desperate charge of Eomer was seen as superfluous to the two towers and wanted it left out of movies despite it being the turning point of the entire war.

    ...he..also wanted James Brown to be Sauron for some insane reason :geg
     
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  10. NostalgiaFan Well-Known Member

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    I distinctly remember Tolkien going out of his way to describe many of the battles having instances of the heroes pulling off heroic actions, Like Gimli decapitating three orcs in on strike and even more insane feats in the Silmarillion like Hurin cutting through an entire army of Orcs until his axe was melted from all the blood it got from the amounts he killed.

    So he did show off stuff that was "cool" but they felt more like they were inspired by the old legends of the Norse or Iliad which Tolkien was heavily invested in, rather then being there just for the shake of showing off. But the Human vs Human battles were seen in a more bleak outlet like where Frodo and Bilbo are caught in the middle of a battle between Gondor and Haradrim.
    Well that is both interesting and... Hilarious.:hestonpls

    But yeah I know Tolkien was not into the battles like other fantasy authors, my point however was that he still included them for as little as he did so some "purists" thinking we should have no battles at all is just stupid and not all that accurate to the source.
     
  11. Unlosing Ranger Transcending Time

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  12. Imakarum Mirabilis Final Zoalord

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    It’s obvious. The stuff that’s exciting in old ass mythology were the fights. Everyone remembers the Titanomachy or Typhon’s assault on Olympus because they’re fucking epic. The heavens are at stake if the Olympians lose and there’s nothing more thrilling than that in those stories.

    Thats why people love action. It’s an old trait that just about everyone has. Nobody gives a shit about the genealogies and other backgrounds crap, everyone wants to read the epic fights where it seems like everything is hanging by a thread.
     
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  13. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    Dylan is underrated :(
     
  14. The Immortal WatchDog don't step in my yard

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    right, but while Gimli and the new heroes get to pull off those awesome and heroic feats and its shown in a positive light, there's still a hint of tragedy there, of sorrow. Of an ending world and its changing epochs, the elves like Legolas will never again do awesome shit like this and even the Dwarves are chanting their last hurrah and then you the entire siege of Erebor and the Battle of Dale where the heroes of the hobbit meet their last stand and its never touched on.

    There's also a grimness about Hurins last stand, he knows he is done and he knows he is damning himself to torment at the hands of Morgoth but he is gleefully sentencing himself to that fate for the sake of his loved ones but its still terrible. Fingolfin loses all hope, he's doing what he is doing because he's basically gone insane with grief and rage and is going there to face Morgoth, not to win anything, not to defeat him but to die...

    Feanor was an avaricious, possessive lunatic, he is basically a non whiny, pathetic version of Anakin from the films or Kylo. Someone so driven by narcissism he defies the gods and dies laughing while burning alive. This is, ultimately wasteful and stupid.

    so its a double edged sword, he wrote them but with an emphasis on how awful they were./

    Also Legolas's grandfather was a fucktard, the entirety of the dead marshes are entirely his fault. Because he got assmad that Cirdan and Elendil called him a retard for wanting to take heavy infantry and cavalry into a fucking swamp with limited supplies to try and backdoor Mordor...

    dude walked right into an army of like..130k orcs and due to the fucking swamps his mobility was cut in half and it went into a mutual wipe out. Had the idiot actually listened and met those forces in better terrain the entire siege of Gorgoroth would have ended way quicker.


    JB Sauron gets into a soul off with Gandalf :maybe

    also, its more Tolkiens inability to comprehend visual media, he honestly felt the battles of Helms deep and Peleanor were irrelevant, that they distracted from the movies. This betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of how movies work honestly.



    eehh people can care about the genealogy and background so long as they tie into the overall story, the action and the characters. Otherwise, yeah no people will fall asleep.
     
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  15. Imakarum Mirabilis Final Zoalord

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    I meant without something to grip their attention. Apologies if I didn’t make that clear :lmao

    Point still stands. Action appeals to the highs in our brains. Even if we know the good guy is gonna win in the end, there’s something innate to seeing stakes and drama that draws us in.

    Hell the Greeks were smart enough to make someone like Typhon threatening by having him force the Olympians flee in terror and beating Zeus within an inch of his life. The poets went out of their way to show how menacing he was :lmao
     
  16. The Immortal WatchDog don't step in my yard

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    So Popeye can't beat one punch man according to Nik Hasta over on cbr? :geg
     
  17. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    Poets also went out of their way to mark out the lineages of characters introduced in the story (even though who get killed a few lines later by Achilles or some other hero), so perhaps that is where Tolkien got the lineages bit from.
     
  18. TTGL Infinity Big Bang Stormer

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  19. Kurou Well-Known Member

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    For the same reason they made Jiren a big baby with his backstory



    They hate Justice
     
  20. TTGL Infinity Big Bang Stormer

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    I saw The Cloverfield Paradox. It was dumb.
    Spoiler:
    The characters acted in ways that normal humans wouldn't. "Oh, my arm is gone. What a surprise." Why did the nanomachines come to life and murder that guy? Just that one guy? No one else? Why did it do that? Why did his arm still move around and write stuff if the original guy of that universe died? I guess because it's spooky, but if that's the case, why's this happening? Why not give one throw-away line about spooky quantum shit? You'd be surprised at how much can be explained with a simple throw away line.

    I get that people would be skeptical of something like a large hydrogen collider activiating fucking up space and time enough to destroy the world, but when the whole Earth dissapears, you'd think people would say "hmm, maybe that guy was right" a bit earlier. The whole Earth seemingly vanishing/getting teleported into an alternate reality would make you think outside the square a bit.

    Also, the alternate universe they arrived in certainly was not the dimension that the Cloverfield monsters emerged from. They basically came from Todash Space (The Mist/The Dark Tower), which would make sense. But the explanation we're given is even dumber, as said above; "DEMONS WILL EMERGE IF YOU ACTIVATE THE HYDROGEN COLLIDER IN SPACE!" Why would these demons emerge? Remember in The Mist no one expected monsters to come out of the portal? Space, time and dimensions coming apart is understandable, but fucking monsters?! The guy who said that was on the news. Not Info Wars, but the proper news. Outside to tie this movie in with the rest of the Cloverfield franchise? We know about Cloverfield, but the characters in the movie don't.

    Even outside this, why did the commander sacrifice himself? Because a movie requires a heroic sacrifice? There didn't seem to be anything wrong with the machine. And why not focus on some of the characters and their motivations more? Like that religious guy, who in one sentence ("I don't know what to believe anymore") seemed to loose/question his faith. It would be far more interesting to see how that happened than the stupid war between Russia and Germany, or whatever it was. Why even have the Russia sub-plot?

    Also, imagine a horror movie in a space station where the Earth vanishes, and the reactions of those inside. How would they feel, drifting alone through the vastness of space, likely never to see their families and friends, their homes ever again, with supplies slowly dwindling. That sounds really interesting and scary. A better movie in my opinion cold have focused entirely on that. But this issue (for both the audience and the characters) is solved quickly. And the station suddenly got full oxygen in the end and full power back? IMO this movie didn't need monsters in it at all.

    The movie also seemed to be treading the footprints of other recent better movies. A horror movie in a space station was probably done because Life did this. The giant monsters shoehorned in was probably because of Kong: Skull Island and the upcoming Pacific Rim: Uprising. The guy on a dangerous journey with a little girl was probably from Logan. They just wanted to do all of this at the same time, and shockingly, failed.

    Now onto the things I liked about the movie. There was a mountain-sized monster at the end, which I thought was cool. And the Cloverfield monsters coming from what's basically Todash Space reminds me of The Mist, a far better horror movie from a far better overall setting (The Dark Tower/Stephen King mythos).
     
  21. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    With DBS ending in 4 episodes they didn't have to rush it and make the Chad Troopers look like fools
     
  22. MusubiKazesaru Moderator Moderator

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    Aside from the bit shown of them in their own universe, the Pride Troopers have mostly been arrogant assholes and little else. Talking about justice doesn't make you a good guy. Just ask Zamasu :maybe
     
  23. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Lucas himself is scouting for the Obi-Wan movie.
     
  24. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    Kahseral saving that kitten >>>>>> Zero NINGENS Plan :ufdup
     
  25. Kurou Well-Known Member

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    >Literal Heroes in their universe
    >Literally intergalactic Police
    >Not good guys

    :kfam
     
  26. Unlosing Ranger Transcending Time

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    Their colors remind you of anything? :maybe
     
  27. Kurou Well-Known Member

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    Excellent fashion
     
  28. Fang Titan

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    Nigger everything about the Pride Troopers has been half-assed and their potential has been squandered by Toriyama and Toei

    >hurr durr Jiren is strong because that one time he wasn't strong so now he's strong because power is strength and he can't be weak because then he wouldn't be powerful and Jiren never actually cared about his comrades

    He's honestly approaching Syn Shenron's level here in terms of me giving a fuck about him
     
  29. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    >tfw the manga did a better job of making Jiren more likable than in the Anime with just two pages

    I don't even like the manga that much
     
  30. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    It’s entirely Toei’s fault for Jiren’s personality in the anime. Toriyama + original editors would make Jiren an awesome character


    You can hate on the DBS manga but Manga!Jiren is great
     

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