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Oda made huge mistake in Luffy's power structure

Discussion in 'Ohara Library' started by Amol, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Amol Chief of Wisdom

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    I have been thinking that Oda was too overenthusiastic with giving Luffy new powers. He should have gone with more conservative approach.
    Like Luffy shouldn't have used G4 against DD. It was the very first 'real' fight Luffy had since TS so Oda should have focused on improved G2 and G3. He used to have creativity before in attacks. I mean Luffy did beat Crocodile and Enel without having new power ups in every fight. Oda should have come with new creative attack to beat DD just using G2 and G3. He had there Law too so Oda could have had DD defeated without dehyping him.
    Same with Cracker. Just show that Luffy has improved his Haki since DD fight and then with help of Nami he countered Cracker thus beating him.
    Katakuri should have been the first fight where G2 and G3 started to become not enough. But still Oda should have only given him Future Sight there. Combination of Future Sight and Gear Stacking(G2+G3) should have been what beaten Katakuri there.
    So by now we would have sense of foreboding that Luffy is lacking in something.
    So when Kaido fodderizes him, only then Luffy should come up with G4. G4 should have been what put Luffy in big boys club.
    Awakening should have been placed on hold for Luffy transcending from Admiral tier guy to PK level guy.
    I am afraid that by the end of manga Luffy will have G10 which is more or less make gears pointless and generic . Oda doesn't seem to understand that less is more. Giving too many new power ups takes away real enjoyment out of them. Now Luffy is literally fodder to Yonkou and he is supposed to become PK. Even awakening won't really accomplish here.
    Basically Oda messed up in Luffy's power structure since TS.
     
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  2. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    This depends on the nature of Luffy's Awakening. If he can manipulate it to add to his defenses like Katakuri's Kaku Mochi, and use it to weaken the defenses of his opponent, like giving their skin rubber qualities to better reach internal organs, I don't see why it wouldn't help him in a more substantial way than G4.
     
  3. PureWIN Mr. Prince

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    Folks have been concerned about Luffy's Gear 'inflation' for nearly a decade now, but Luffy is already FM level and has only revealed ONE new gear since the debut of Gear 2+3.

    G4 is still relatively new, especially as we've only seen Boundman in 3 separate fights, while Tankman and Snakeman has only been seen once. I wouldn't expect anything beyond G5.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  4. Shiba D. Inu I want to be the very best like no one ever was

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    Oda made many mistakes post-skip :catstalk
     
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  5. Marie Mono no aware

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    I totally agree.

    Oda is rushing things, making the plot/power ups more and more inconsistent.

    It's like a shonen curse
     
  6. VileNotice Well-Known Member

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    Doflamingo was the first top tier Luffy beat, so he had to go all out with what he learned over the timeskip. You have to remember that Doffy survived an encounter with Aokiji and made Jozu his plaything at Marineford, meaning he's upper Yonko commander level (imo he's the same level as Katakuri, because even though Luffy was weaker in Dressrosa Law did some damage to him as well). It just wouldn't make sense for Luffy to be that much stronger than Doffy to hold back his ultimate move from the timeskip. And if you're suggesting he should have learned G4 in Wano, then the timeskip ends up being pretty irrelevant in terms of learning new techniques (it would be a lot like Naruto where he got stronger and more refined but learned nothing exciting or new). Most importantly it was just the right time, it was a full 9 years of manga with no new gear, and waiting another four years for the Kaidou fight would be an unnecessary gap.
     
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  7. Extravlad Banned

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    G2/G3 were shown to be garbage as early as Punk Hazard.
     
  8. SupremeKage Hunter x Hunter > ur fave

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    Nah I believe gear 5 + awakening + variations will be the limit to Luffy’s powers. But I do agree that he’s rushing the power ups
     
  9. Gledania Yeah but no

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    True.just like ichigo bankai.
     
  10. Ruse Anker

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    Gear 4 was a mistake :kanyeshrug

    Kaido gonna have this boy come up with 6 different gears just to squeak out a win
     
  11. Kings punch Well-Known Member

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    Na Doflamingo has always been a revered and hyped villain everyone looked forward to clashing with Luffy. Doflamingo was speculated to be FM level and even "top tier". Luffy beating him by PIS(Croc) or luck and the naivety and inexperience of his opponent(enel) would have been bad writing. Doflamingo is a sovereign in the new world who runs the underworld politics, wants to be the pirate king, and has crazy connections with the WG and emperors. He wouldnt give Luffy 3 chances to beat him or wouldnt lack the experience to overcome a DF power. This guy wasnt some failed new world pirate picking on fringe grandline kingdoms, or some isolated logia picking on an isolated island of small people.

    Luffys upgrades are fine. G10 is an exaggeration. G5 plus awakening, and mastering haki seems to be luffys final power ups which will make sense at the end of it all
     
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  12. Marik Swift Ƀĕĕń ĺȗȑǩiṋḡ ṧḯṉḉḕ '07

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    The real problem is that Luffy gets so much focus that Oda has no choice but to churn out upgrades.

    Sanji should have been the one to fight Katakuri or Cracker in WCI.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  13. PX23 Member

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    Hakified G3 is too ineffective and overused. Keep in mind that regular G3 fucked Rob Lucci up. G3 was the trump card, now it's a big birthday party balloon.

    Kaido one-shotting G4 FM level Luffy is almost as bad as Fujitora's + YC level Zoro's inability to cut DD's Bird Cage.
     
  14. Lord Haunter Tyrant Overlord

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    I see both sides to this, but the real problem is that Oda should not have made Kaido be able to one shot an FM Level person like current G4 Luffy unless it was one of his best attacks. He did that with casual ease after letting an FM level fighter hit him for a bunch of times which makes it worse.

    I thought this during the wait for the chapter to come out, and so did a bunch of other people here too.

    As we all thought this means people like Katakuri, Current Luffy and Ben Beckman are complete and utter dogshit to a Yonko. They can't even damage them based on Kaido if they just sit there and let it happen.

    And we ALL know Blackbeard is gonna do shit that's way more impressive than Kaido. which means he's gonna be way worse with inflating the power levels more.

    I'm who is most likely some type of fighter considering this is an action series and all important bosses in action series can fight, has a high chance of doing it as well.
     
  15. Extravlad Banned

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    G2/G3 spamming was a mistake.

    The reason why G4 was necessary is because G2/G3 had to be spammed in every fight and therefore were heavily nerfed by Oda so that Luffy doesn't immediatly oneshot his foes (Hody,Monet,Caesar,Chinjao).

    The bigger issue though is that Luffy did not really improve G2 and G3, he invented new attacks (Red Hawk,Elephant Gun/Gatling and Grizzly Magnum) but they're still the same.

    G4 and haki are his only new power ups.
     
  16. Sixth Ranger Chikara

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    Snakeman should have just been an improved G2 and boundman an improved G3

    Going from there he could’ve kept improving his haki, creating new moves, picking up techniques from people he’s fought, actually learning from his fights. Then awakening
     
  17. T.D.A Well-Known Member

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    He's been doing the manga for over 20 years. The pre-time skip pacing wasn't going to be sustainable.

    Oda wants to retire.
     
  18. Phantom Thief Well-Known Member

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    Mostly agree with this. Think Snakeman against Katakuri was still a good idea, but it needed to have been the first G4 form introduced. I've thought about all this a while ago and I agree that Luffy shouldn't have used G4 against Doflamingo. Cracker, I used to think he could have used Boundman against for the first time, but after this incident with Kaido, I'm hard pressed to stick by that.

    Though I do think the claims that Luffy is gonna need 6 gears or above is a bit outlandish. Honestly, improve both CoO and CoA to levels at and beyond what Katakuri had shown us, gain Awakening and give us another G4 form, like Tigerman or something, and he'll be good to go. Think all of that will put Luffy very very close to the Admirals.
     
  19. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

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    I made a thread about this topic in the past.



    I still hold the same opnion. Oda fucked up
     
  20. Fel1x Friend of Grummles

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    do you really want to wait for 10+ years more for EoS? with all Oda's breaks
    i'm ok with current Luffy's progression, It needs to be done.

    But snakesman was a disappointment. not much different from classic G4
     
  21. Kamina. Ruler of the Tower

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    :bookerskully
     
  22. Cheeky 21st Century Schizoid Man

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    ^ (use bro) should've used Reverse Gear and gotten his ass outta there
     
  23. Kobe █▄█▄█ █ █▀█

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    Creativity goes only so much. When Luffy was up against Rokushiki, his base form could not handle the speed.

    New World is all about Haki. He needed new techniques to accommodate proper usage of Haki, as it seems to be *limited*.

    In his Gear 4 form, he can go head-to-head with anyone below Admirals/Yonkou. He is gonna have Gear 5 to make him put past them. Gear 5 will also be his AOE move, even Awakening perhaps. I don't think he has it now though.
     
  24. xenos5 Objectionable Objection

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    Two things. I don’t think we’ve seen all the G4 variations (there may be one that’s entirely offense focused but is super risky in comparison to the other variations, Boundman is the balanced variation I think). It could be a long time before we get G5 if Oda is able to get the most out of different G4 variations where Luffy uses different ones to suit different situations, and eventually learns to switch between variations mid-battle.

    And aside from awakening Luffy could also get an armament haki upgrade.

    Katakuri showed with Block Mochi luffy still has room to grow with armament haki and/or integrating his armament haki with his DF so they’re both denser. Luffy upgrading his armament haki would help both his base and G2/G3 attacks as well as his G4 offense and defense.
     
  25. Vivo Diez Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Stacking more and more gears on top seems like the way Oda's going to go with this, which will reduce the usefulness and impact of the previous gears more and more. The DBZ curse of powerups.

    If he was still deadset on creating a G4, a cool way of introducing it would have been that he was only starting to create it towards the end of his training, and as he fights more challenging opponents, he's inspired to create new moves. It would also work well with whole theme of Rayleigh telling Luffy that he's only going to get truly powerful with haki once he fights other heavy hitters.

    Hody should have been defeated by a single G2 red hawk, DD should have been beaten by one of his top tier G3 attacks, maybe have DD use an offshoot string move where can control it's direction slightly, giving Luffy the idea for Python. Cracker probably should have been beaten by Sanji and Nami, quite a bit after he beats up Luffy, giving the fight more dramatic tension between Sanji and Nami, as well as allowing both characters to show off against Cracker.

    Luffy can still fight Katakuri and eventually in the fight reveal Snakeman, using the python move he was inspired to create from his fight with DD. I think Boundman was a mistake considering how Luffy's awakening is probably going to work. Tankman is a meme, why not just rework his fuusen move and make a variation of it where he infuses it with haki.
     
  26. hehey a synonym for greatness

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    So much agreement among people Is uncommon around here it's kind of weird.

    Needless to say I also agree. Power inflation has gotten out if hand lately specially with Kaido 1 hit KO on Luffy
     
  27. Tatlo Well-Known Member

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    Should Luffy really have used creative Gear 2/3 moves on Doflamingo? If you remember, Gear 3 was too slow for Doffy since he dodged every Gear 3 attack. The only attacks that hit Doffy were base attacks and Gear 2 attacks, but even Gear 2 was too weak for Doffy- he said they "tickled."

    Hypothetically, Luffy COULD probably beat Doffy with Gear 2-Gear 3 combos, but that would take way too much time. By the time Luffy beats Doflamingo, most of the citizens would already be dead since a bunch of razorsharp wires were closing in on the island.

    That fight had Plotcage. That fight had a time limit. Luffy couldn't afford to waste any time; he HAD to finish the fight quickly. Luffy HAD to use Gear Fourth.
     
  28. Samehadaman Well-Known Member

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    The real problem here is that Oda feels that he needs you show Luffy struggling or even being fodderized to create a feeling of threat.

    Although now in hindsight we all talk shit about Luffy >> Cracker the way Oda presented it Luffy needed both a plot device weakness (water) AND a gag (eating the soldiers as a solution).
    Katakuri ragdolls him for ages, he just magicaly endured infinite punishment and magically improved CoO beyong Katakuri in one afternoon simply by wishing it.

    And ofc in the end he surpasses those guys. Now Kaido is so beyone him that it is not only a one shot, he even let him to a barrage of attacks first to highlight his powerlessness.

    This sequence of fodder —> surpass, fodder —> surpass wilk inevitably result in dragon ball power inflation now that we ran out of middle men and reached top tiers.

    Oda had solved this before by establishing top tiers early and using other opponents as arc villains first.
    But now Luffy is fighting those top tiers. It will not work anymore.

    If the fodder —> surpass cicle continues, whatever Yonko/Admiral falls last will make whatever Yonko/Admiral that fell first look like someone many tiers below.
    Oda had to break this either by having team battles (no individual surpass) or stop with the fodderizing.
     
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  29. Vivo Diez Well-Known Member

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    Oda has pulled off team battles in Thriller Bark and Sabody, I hope he starts doing them in Wano instead of Luffy going from getting fodderized to beating Kaido by himself in the span of a few weeks..
     
  30. Freechoice Freechoice

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