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Official UFC/General MMA Discussion v3.0 - Part 2

Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by Reznor, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Dr. White I'm a shapeshifter, at Poe's masquerade.

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    It’s not really that controversial Imo. Had it been with like 10s left then maybe, but bulldog choke from beat wrestler in weight class + arm dropping 3 feet to the floor = solid win. Especially when you consider Ben began and ended the fight in more dominant positions.

    As for derrick lewis, dude needs to learn some grappling. There was a moment in the second where he had JDS back and almost fully hooked from the back and legit let it go. He’ll never be a champion ( and he desires a stable income more) but he could be aoo luch better lol.
     
  2. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Lawler-Askren is the definition of controversial, the hell are you talking about, lol. Askren began the fight getting sprawled on when he shot his initial TD attempt. Then when he was trying to chain his stuff and advance, it was mostly a stalemate as they were fighting for head and arm positions before they both kind of tripped, and then Lawler slammed him and beat his face in with g&p.

    The stoppage isn't defensible at all. It's the worst call of the year so far, and it's unlikely to be topped. Lawler's body didn't go limp, and you're not in a situation where only your arm goes limp, especially from that position and the blood flow involved for a gable/s-grip. Guys take their arm down like that in so many grappling exchanges in MMA and grappling sports, especially for a bulldog choke. And the application and movements you see guys use for their grips in RNCs or neck cracks from the jaw are very than a bulldog choke.

    Askren got very lucky. Lawler is a bad match-up for him (arguably the worst in the division, Top-2 to 3 at worst, and not surprising White booked this first for him), but he can still do well against other top guys, even with how the current meta is. It sucked the fight ended like that, especially as a long time Lawler guy, but it was unfortunate for both of them.

    Lewis is just not a good fighter, and never has been. I could see him going on a bit of a losing streak depending on how he is matched up now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  3. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Aldo-Volkanovski is a crazy fight. I've been saying for a while I think he is the only non-Holloway guy who could beat Aldo at the weight right now (barring a ridiculous learning curve from Bektic since he has been out). Aldo could have been taking fun, easy fights to end his contract, but he is signing up to take on top fighters coming off the best streaks/performances of their careers. This is why he is a GOAT tier fighter.
     
  4. afgpride Retired Staff

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    Jiu jitsu/wrestling experts across the aisle are all saying that would've been a submission regardless. The bulldog choke was fully locked in and yes, Lawler's arm going limp does matter in that position. If his entire body temporarily shut down in that moment he would've looked the exact same way he looked, since his weight was on a flat foot perpendicular to the mat and his knee while being simultaneously held up by his opponent.

    It was an early stoppage but didn't change the outcome unless we want to make a controversy out of a <5% chance Lawler would've gotten out of a locked in bulldog choke from one of the best grapplers in MMA history.
     
  5. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    What could have happened isn't really relevant. The stoppage is the issue, and Dr. White said it wasn't controversial, which is just blatantly wrong, especially with how split the MMA community has been on it.
     
  6. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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    Robbie was done soon with that choke. Till will be fun or Ben will get killed... Till is probaly a lot better now.
     
  7. Ishmael Star shopping

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    Lewis and JDS was entertaining, I think Derrick could've been more aggressive though, that's when he's dangerous
     
  8. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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  9. Kuya God of the 5th Dimension

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    Wonderboy vs. Pettis, who ya got?
     
  10. afgpride Retired Staff

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  11. Dr. White I'm a shapeshifter, at Poe's masquerade.

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    Not really lol. The timing of the stoppage is the only thing "controversial". A ref is there to protect the fighters. Everyone and their mom who saw Lawler's hand touch the mat initially thought he was out, and he apparently didn't give Herb enough of a response for Herb to make the call that he was okay. Add that into contextual knowledge of what a bulldog choke typically means, and the only thing that makes it controversial is Robbie being in good enough condition to get up and immediately contest.
    > Which doesn't prove he never went out or that Ben loosened his grip.
    > Which still doesn't matter because Herb has to make calls in the moment based on evidence at the time, not evidence that (literally) springs forth after his call.

    As for your narrative of the fight, it seems blatantly biased. Robbie Lawler wanted no parts of any potential grappling, and Askren literally lol noped Robbie first attempts at a strike. The fight was legit goign 100% in Askren's favor, Robbie simply made a very well timed counter, and Askren messed up his chain not thinking Robbie would be able to angle slam him as he did.

    After that slam, and subsequent turn in Robbie's favor?

    Could not capatilize when it got back to the feat, got taken to the cage, taken to the ground, and submitted.

    Demonstrably false. The rate at which his arm fell was consistent with it being accelerated by gravity. Indicating it wasn't a coordinated movement with muscle control. Another plausible explanation is Robbie faked it so that Ben might let go, which just makes it his own fault.

    Not sure what you mean here. Multiple grappling experts have already displayed how fast a blood choke can begin to make people go unconscious (with much less grip force) from the exact position. His positioning has very little effect on Askren's ability to cut blood supply, and Askren was literally propping his body up from the front while Robbie's body was naturally being held up by his legs acting like pillars.

    Askren can still choke him out given sufficient grip. Guess what Askren has in spades?

    No he didn't. He weathered the storm of Robbie Lawler, and showed his grappling dominance.

    You can't claim this and subsequently admit that the stoppage would have likely happened anyway.
     
  12. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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    Wonderboy.
     
  13. Mythoclast Ω

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    Tony's having a mental breakdown...:gglife
     
  14. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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    :wellshit
     
  15. Stringer ∟ Yellow King

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    well shit, sounds more serious that I thought

    I hope he gets the help he needs
     
  16. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Ferguson has always been a little different, even relative to other fighters, but this doesn't look good. It would be a shame if his career really tailed off due to outside issues like this, and especially if we don't see him ever fight Nurmy.
     
  17. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Khabib will have to fight him in real life.:catbuff
     
  18. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    War Gamebred, let's go! I had him winning by decision, or maybe a late stoppage by submission, but what a knockout.

    Best shape I've ever seen him in. Biggest win of his career. He's had so many unlucky split decisions or decisions he could or should have easily gotten in Khabilov, Henderson, Larkin, and especially Iaquinta. If he didn't fight stupid and grapple with Maia late, he could have easily took a 2-1 decision too. Only fight where he just got bamboozled was against Wonderboy.

    Guy has been one of the most technical and complete fighters in MMA for a long time now. Not an easy fight at all against Askren or Usman, especially with their technical shortcomings in the striking, and aspects of grappling for Usman, despite him being able to phase shift and mix his game together better than anyone in the weight. He's always been arguably the toughest out from 155 to 170-lbs and this performance showed why.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 7:27 PM
  19. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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  20. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    It was a damn good fight. Your boy had his moments for sure.

    Masvidal was just a tough match-up, imo. Outside of Wonderboy, I'm not sure anyone in the division should be as clear a favourite over him as Till was. This time off did him some good. It'll be interesting to see if he has the same motivation going forward. You could tell from the face-off, interviews, and shape he was in, something might have changed for him.

    Made some money on this one. Got him at 3:1 odds. He was +550 to get a stoppage, but I didn't put any money on that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 7:47 PM
  21. Former OBD Lurker. Well-Known Member

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    I thought he ko him in the first round lol, Till dropped him hard. I had a feeling this would happen.
     
  22. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Masvidal has gotten dropped early in fights, at least against competent strikers with the exception of the weird Chiesa one. Wonderboy, Cruickshank, Khabilov, etc. He's one of those guys who starts slow, but he changed up some things this time. He has never been legitimately stopped by strikes in 46 fights in 16 years now. The Damm stoppage was one of the worst in MMA; he's gotten dropped like that numerous times, and even against Till. He's fought the likes of Baboon, Edwards, Melendez, Means, Iaquinta, Larkin, Cerrone, Till, Ellenberger, Daley, Wonderboy, etc. too. He's had one of the best recoveries in MMA for a long time now.



    As someone who has been following his career from the backyard Kimbo fights, it's nice to see he still has that same slant to him for these situations :mjlol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 9:51 PM
  23. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Between Edwards, his fight with Till, and issues with Bisping, it doesn't seem like the Brits (at least the super national ones) have too much reason to like Masvidal :kobeha

    He out-classed one of their better fighters in Pearson too (who was one of the better boxers at the weight), which wasn't easy to do, especially a 3-0 with a 10-8.

     
  24. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    It's time for Till to move up. He has one of the most dreadful weight-cuts in the sport right now, and it was dubious if he even made it from how quickly he got on scale with the towel, and the weight counting guy called it.
     
  25. Zhen Chan Silver Spoon Coon Hoe

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  26. Mythoclast Ω

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    I was calling for him to move up after the Woodley loss.Hopefully this KO convinces him.
     
  27. Fullmetal Moderator

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  28. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Masvidal got a FOTN and POTN bonus, only got a couple of them in his UFC career, and never on the same fight. Hopefully the UFC doesn't try to take that away from him due to what happened backstage.
     
  29. Stringer ∟ Yellow King

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    after that backstage brawl Masvidal vs Edwards gotta be next, Askren can wait to either get the winner or loser of Usman vs Covington

    lol the welterweight division's gonna super interesting in the coming months
     
  30. Lucifer Morningstar .

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    Funniest personality post-Serra and Nick Diaz, imo. He has so many classic interviews and series/vlogs outside of the UFC. He also trolls fans online sometimes, lol. I don't think he controls his FB anymore, probably someone from his team, but he used to be on it quite a bit:


     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 1:22 AM
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