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Orihime's shield vs. Urahara's shield

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Insipidipity, Aug 18, 2005.

  1. Insipidipity

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    If Orihime's healing is almost vice captain, and she has 50% more fairies for the shield than healing, and her will to protect others is top of the line, do you think it surpasses that of a captain's? Urahara's sheild seemed broken by Ichigo's attack but I dont know if Orihime would do any better, but she seems to block almost anything with it.
     
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  2. Blood shield pwns other baby shields, Her shield is only made because of the offdrift of Ichigos power anyway, Urahara has this.
     
  3. Potentialflip

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    Going on a limb and just say Urahara's shield.
     
  4. Ah B

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    Urahara's shield is probably better than Orihime's shield.
    Urahara's is based off of using his own blood (and will I guess?) if I remember correctly. Unless Urahara got sucked by a vampire, his shield is probably really strong. :p

    Orihime's isn't weak either though. Like you stated, her will to protect others is strong already. She sucks at attacking because she doesn't have the killing intent, but she DOES have a protection intent.

    Anywho, Urahara's is probably better.
     
  5. Insipidipity

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    Zangetsu slashed off half of the bloodmist shield on the first or second strike didn't it?
     
  6. Colest

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    First "blast" strike i believe
     
  7. Chatulio

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    orihime shield has the potential to be stronger tha uraharas i think.
     
  8. Gaaravision

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    Spoiler:
    The manga already did this. Orihime barely blocked a finger poke from Yammi, which made a crack in her shield which then caused it to shatter, and wasn't in good shape after doing so.

    Urahara's casually blocked a full on punch from Yammi, without any visible damage at first, and it looked like it was Urahara that disolved it. And you know, the whole "did it casually" thing, vs Orihime limping around.
     
  9. cinosweiv

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    I think Uruhara's shield is stronger than Orihime's.
    Basic and simple reason: Captain > Vice-captain (if Orihime really in VC level)
     
  10. chauronity

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    Orihime's shield, cos it activates subconsciously and doesn't require sword command (yes, it's a shikai). That's why Urahara's shield is harder to activate.

    And about protection and durability, i bet they're almost equal, except Urahara's might last longer ... thought, it'd be safe to assume that Urahara hasn't showed the best he got.
     
  11. skmt999

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    Orihime may have the potential to become VC level, but she isn't there yet. Urahara is limited by the 1/5 power while on Earth thing, and so anything he does is going to be less than his full strength. We simply haven't SEEN what he's capable of - but what we've seen so far is enough to make me think that it wouldn't matter. I vote for the sneaky guy over the shy girl.
     
  12. Naruto_Heart

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    The problem is...

    would Orihime's shield be even adequate enough to fend off Ichigo's blast strike?
     
  13. Insipidipity

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    Hmmmm...Sado seems to have the power to hurt a captain, Ishida seems to too even without the broken glove. The only difference was speed.

    Seems to me that Orihime should be at least able to make up for her lack of offense with the ability to defend and heal from captains. But I guess she makes up for it with TWO vice captain level abilities rather than 1 captain level ability.
     
  14. Hatsune Miku

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    Urahara's shield pwns over Orihime's shield.
     
  15. Tsukiyomi

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    Thats a voluntary limitation, captains and VCs aren't automatically limited when they go to earth, that would be stupid, what if a Menos or something showed up and they needed extra power? They can most likely remove this limitation at will.

    Ok, first off even if Orihime were healing at a VC level that wouldn't mean her defensive abilities were at VC level. Since the only healing division is the Fourth division I'm assuming the statement meant a Fourth Division VC which would probably be a step down in raw power from a normal VC.

    Secondly, even if it meant her defensive abilities were on par with a VC, Urahara was a captain, and Captains are FAR beyond VCs. Not only that but Urahara may just turn out to be one of the strongest of all captains.

    Third, Orihimes shield is a product of those little creatures she summons which can be weakened by her will. Urahara's shield is a product of his Shikai, a captain level Shikai is indeed a powerful thing.

    Anyway I think I made my point, Orihime's shield simply cannot compare to Urahara's. Do you really think her shield could hold up to an energy blast from Zangetsu (even if the bloodmist shield were severely damaged)?
     
  16. Insipidipity

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    1. If the 4th division VC is the only healers, then being at 4th Division VC level seems to be about as impressive as being at the fighting level of 11th Division VC(although that being said IS kinda funny as an analogy)
    2. True, which is why I said what I did in the last post, her versatility of 3 VC level abilities makes her as good as a captain with 1 Captain level ability
    3. I think a zanpaktou and those flowers are pretty much the same in principle...both are powered by the user and determined by their will despite their seeming independence(See the Ichigo vs. Kenpachi where he needs the will to cut to do so). I'm not going to argue that a captain level shikai isn't a powerful thing though. I've already conceeded the original question of its power, now I'm just wondering if her 3 powers combined puts her on a similar capability of Sado and Ishida.
    4. Thats kinda a circular question. This entire thread kinda depends on that answer in the first place....
     
  17. Gaimanotaku

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    Orihime's healing isn't at vice captain level because it's necessarily better. I mean a real medic is going to be doing things like dealing with trauma, and bloodloss and is sort of limited by what the person's body is capable of doing. Orihime just zaps time backwards locally. It doesn't automatically put her reiatsu control level at a vice captain's, so without any evidence for, I'm going to say that yes, an elite Captain level barrier is probably better than hers.
     
  18. Tsukiyomi

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    I disagree, all we ever hear about is how the 4th division is the weakest, most people (most not all) put the 4th division captain near the bottom rung of the captains.

    Now lets say for the sake of argument her healing abilities were on a CAPTAIN level (for the sake of argument mind you), what would that have to do with her shield? Nothing, healing and defensive abilities are totally different things.

    Just like offensive abilities aren't the same which is why her offensive move never seems to have worked.

    3 VC level abilities? What three abilities would that be? Even if her healing is VC level (which I don't think it is), what other two does she have? Her shield is probably not even close to VC level otherwise she could just use that to block everything from a sub-VC level opponent.

    Her offensive move hasn't even come close to working once, didn't it get seriously damaged by a very low level Shinigami (can't remember what seat he was).

    I don't think they are of the same principle, thats why everyone who sees them says they've never seen that type of ability before.

    We know the Zanpakutou are a reflection of that persons soul, if Orihime became a Shinigami she would get a Zankpakutou. We don't know what those things are, they're probably the first of their kind and only appeared because of Ichigo's massive power.

    What has she shown that indicates her shield can withstand that? I believe someone brought up how Yammi's finger poke broke her shield while Urahara's took it like nothing.
     
  19. Code

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    Spoiler:
    Seeing as how Orihime's shield cracked when Yami put a finger to it, and Urahara's own was completely fine after Yami punched it. I'd say Urahara's shield is stronger.
     
  20. Insipidipity

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    1. Weakest yes, because none are battle ready, they barely carry around swords, but they are a set of healers, so they must in terms of healing be equivalent to what, say the 11th squad is to fighting. Whenever someone is injured, they call on 4th squad.
    2. I'm not saying it does, but I'm just saying that its hard to believe EVERY HUMAN that came with her(Ichigo/Sado/Ishida) has powers that can hurt a captain, and while her offense is weakest, that she can't make up for it with her shield and healing? It feels a little too unbalanced to be true. I'm not saying either is good enough compared to a captain, but combined they should be
    3. Hasn't she blocked pretty much everything from sub VC opponents? We saw in the intro she blocked the zanpaktous from half of the VCs.

    4. I do think they're pretty much the same.
    a. They're both living, one has 1 name, the other has 6.
    b. They have commands for coming out, for Shinigami, Shikai, for the flowers, whatever thier ability is(heal, shield, attack)
    c. Her power is a reflection of her soul
    d. both are said to be affected by
    i. The will to cut
    ii. The will not to let friends die
    iii. The will not to BE cut
    None of those are present in anything else(Sado's arm, Ishida's bow, Etc.)
    They haven't seen that ABILITY before because they're NOT zanpaktou's. However, that doesn't mean they're not essentially the same thing in principle. They're a living manifestation of the user's soul which can be called out to do tasks with the user's own power.
     
  21. Gaimanotaku

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    1. You can only use the healing analogy if Orihime's comparable healing rate meant something. It doesn't. It doesn't mean anything about her attributes. She can heal at a VC rate but it doesn't mean she has VC skills. Assessing injuries, using correct kidou, having fine knowledge of anatomy, pouring precise amounts of reiatsu versus a blanket reverting time effect. There's no way to say that she has VC amount of spiritual energy or VC amount of spiritual control.
    2. Man that Hitsugaya/Ishida fight in the opening was great. Oh, you're saying that the opening animation isn't canon and didn't happen? Neat. Next point.
    3. Yes, it is actually possible for characters to have different levels of strength. Nobody's enforcing character parity, especially in a shonen manga.

    Most important point. Finger flicks are generally considered to be weaker than giant mouth lasers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  22. Tsukiyomi

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    Dude, did you even touch the point about Yammi cracking Orihime's shield with his finger but being unable to get to Urahara with anything?

    She seemed pretty determined to protect Chad, but failed.
     
  23. superman_1

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    Urahara's shield is more stronger and better.....

    Spoiler: manga spoiler
    seeing how yammy destroyed orihime's shield with just one finger and when he punched urahara's shield nothing happened to his shield and it remained intact....so urahara's shield is more stronger
     
  24. Insipidipity

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    1. True enough. I wasn't really talking about skill, I was talking about power, like Sado may have the power to hurt a captain but that certainly doesn't mean he can fight on the same level.
    2. Whether or not its canon, they don't really show things that are completely against the abilities of the shown characters. Of course it didn't happen, but its a good indicator of power. I mean, Yoroichi breaking the zanpaktou was a far better indication of her power than anything in the anime up to the point it was introduced.
    3. True enough. But then again, theres always trade offs. Like Orihime is like Sakura, shown to have excellent control over her powers while Sado has the power like Sasuke but not as much control.

    Tsukiyomi, if you didn't notice, I stopped arguing a while back that Orihime's shield was as powerful as Uruhara's sheild, like I said, I've just been trying to figure out whats with the power discrepancy. Sado and Orihime both trained with Yoroichi yet Sado suddenly makes a captain think he could've been hurt while Orihime can't hurt a 4th seat(much lower than a captain), has a healing ability that even a vice captain can compete perform, and her shield gets destroyed by a poke? Generally it just seems like people who train over the same period of time, grow about the same rate, just in different things. Like Sasuke got Chidori while Naruto got Kyubi.

    I guess the best argument is that her powers are good enough considering her starting position. That is to say, Sado already was massively strong, Ishida was already powerful like Ichigo, and Orihime started from nothing, so its justifiable that she hasn't gotten to their level.
     
  25. Tsukiyomi

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    If you want more than speculation as to who would win the fight then maybe you should make a thread outside the battledome.

    I don't understand you, you're trying to figure out why Orihime isn't captain level?

    Sado made a captain think he could have been hurt? That captain wasn't taking that fight seriously at all, just releasing his shikai would have upped his Reiatsu several times over.

    The guy watching said her healing speed MAY be faster than himself or the VC, since he is not a VC he probably doesn't know what his own VC is truly capable of, and speed of healing is different than reiatsu power.

    Orihime has never shown any extraordinary reiatsu, in fact everything she has ever tried to do offensively has failed horribly. Her shield has also started proving useless.

    She is at such a disadvantage that Kubo Tite would need to pull a DBZ (magical beings unleashing their "true power") for her to ever hope to catch up to anyone.

    I guess the best argument is that her powers are good enough considering her starting position. That is to say, Sado already was massively strong, Ishida was already powerful like Ichigo, and Orihime started from nothing, so its justifiable that she hasn't gotten to their level.[/quote]

    As far as we've seen she hasn't done anything to show ANY growth since her initial training, and the gap between her and the others is at the point where it would be ludicrous for her to catch up at any point in the series unless we start talking about YEARS of her training harder than them.
     
  26. Insipidipity

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    He had his Shikai out(the 2 swords) when he said getting hit by the last blast would've hurt.

    Ok I think I've figured it out, her only purpose is versatility. She HAS a sheild and healing powers. Thats the only reason she's worth having. Without those 2 meager abilities, she's a waste of space and drops the average power of the group dramatically...Ganju is more a plot device than a character if you ask me so he doesn't count. Ok, its settled.
     
  27. Tsukiyomi

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    Um, no. He never released his Shikai until his fight with Yamamoto.
     
  28. Insipidipity

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    Oh, whats up with having 2 Zanpaktou then?
     
  29. Tsukiyomi

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    Because he HAS two Zankaputou, so does Ukitake. They both have twin Zanpakutou, that means two sealed swords, which become two Shikai swords and probably twin Ban Kai weapons.

    So no, that wasn't his Shikai.
     
  30. InEviTabLe.SiN

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    Urahara. The only reason Orihime developed her sixth sense was something to do with hanging around Ichigo too much.
     
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