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Orochimaru > Itachi: New Evidence

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Wrath, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. Wrath Mourning

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    Akatsuki is a group of ten ninjas. That's how many rings there are, how many fingers there are on the statue. It's entirely possible that new members have died before Sasori, and that they've been replaced, but only one person has never been replaced: Orochimaru.

    There are supposed to be ten members. Each of them has a ring, and the rings are important. They correspond to the fingers of the freaky Bijuu-sucking statue, but they aren't just symbolic. I've thought that for a long time, but recently we got proof. Deidara went hunting for his ring after he lost his arm, and Zetsu went hunting for Sasori's lost ring. When Tobi found it, he acted as if now he could join Akatsuki.

    They went hunting for the rings. But Orochimaru still has his. He keeps it, on the hand of his old body.

    Why does he still have it? Well, maybe it's to spite Akatsuki, or just as a souvenir. That's one question. But the more important one is this: why haven't Akatsuki taken it back?

    They're obviously weaker without a tenth member. There was doubt as to whether the Bijuu-extraction would go as easily without Orochimaru around. And now we know that they hunt down the lost rings of other members.

    So why does Orochimaru still have his?

    Easy - they can't take it from him.

    For those of you who really truly believe that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, despite all the primary evidence to the contrary, ask yourselves this: if Itachi is stronger than him, if other Akatsuki members are, then why does Orochimaru still have the ring?

    Deidara, supposedly not even one of the strongest Akatsuki, thought nothing of barging into the Sand and capturing their Kazekage, but the Akatsuki can't even get their hands on one ring Orochimaru keeps out in the open in his lair. It's not hidden, or in a vault somewhere, it's just in a room.

    Akatsuki want the ring back. But they can't get it, because Orochimaru is too strong. Kisame said that he and Itachi together wouldn't be able to beat Jiraiya without dying, so to fight Orochimaru Akatsuki would have to make a similar sacrifice. And they can't risk that.
     
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  2. Gunners .

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    i agree, i dont think orochimaru beleives itachi to be stronger he just doesnt want him to copy his jutsu coz the things i see orochimaru do i cant see itachi beating it.

    imo the rings allow the users to use the power that will come forth when the have all the biju in the statue.
     
  3. Kenshiro (inactive) Suno-Nin

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    Perhaps Akatsuki does not know the location of Hidden Sound Village and Orochimaru's whereabouts, that's why they haven't gone after him and his ring yet.

    If you ask me, I don't really think Akatsuki is scared of Orochimaru at all. Although I do agree with you in one area, I think Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi, Itachi is too overated but I doubt Orochimaru is stronger than the 9 remaining members of Akatsuki altogether, that would just be stupid. My logic is that Akatsuki just don't know the exact location of Hidden Sound as it is more of a hidden underground lair than it is a hidden village.
     
  4. Wrath Mourning

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    It's not that Akatsuki are scared of Orochimaru, that would imply he could beat them all.

    It's that they can't risk sending members to their certain deaths in order to get the ring back. It's a business decision, so to speak, that it's better to save the lives of two members than to gain one member.
     
  5. TheoDerek Rise Against

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    I like that idea because Oro is one of my favorite characters, but your saying that the reason they don't have his ring is because they feel they can't take it back. I think this is wrong because 9 S rank nins can definatly take out 1. I really don't know why they don't have his ring. Its not like hes very well hidden. He has his own country. They could just send a pair to find his whereabouts and then they could return and form an attack plan.
     
  6. Shikamaru-sama Been here too long

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    Well, i wouldnt exactly call this evidence, evidence would be Akatsuki saying 'damn, we just cant take back that ring because he is so strong', its just an interpretation of events.

    Could well be a good point though. It seems that the rings are extremely important and the argument 'Akatsuki doesnt care about the ring Omaru has' just doesnt hold up after 280.
     
  7. Woofie Coordinator

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    This makes no sense.

    No one argues that Itachi is far superior to Orochimaru, therefore sending him alone (or even with one partner) is going to be risky in any case. There is a high chance of serious injury and a possible risk of death even if he was stronger, such is the nature of high-level battles.

    Therefore we can probably assume that if they were going to attempt to retrieve the ring, they would go in large numbers. So... you're seriously trying to say that Orochimaru can defeat all of Akatsuki members? Or, to be generous, 4 or 5 members? I really don't think so, and if you do then you have interpretted this series in a quite bizarre way thus far, and can expect to be proven wrong.

    So yup, I'm sure that Akatasuki could get the ring back if they found Orochimaru. Could Itachi alone? Possibly, but it's extremely risky, and so such a mission would never be assigned to him. This topic is silly.

    Looking at things in another way, Konohagakure want Orochimaru dead, correct? He's by far the biggest direct threat to their village, has killed their Hokage and has promised to invade again. But as far as we know, he most certainly is not dead. Now, why might this be? Is it because they know they couldn't kill him, so Orochimaru > Konoha (or any random Konoha ninja you want to pick out, like you have with Itachi here... let's say Tsunade)? No, I don't think so. I expect the reasons that Konoha haven't succeeded in killing Orochimaru are much the same as Akatsuki's... the fact that they don't know where he is is a pretty good theory.

    Additionally, getting the ring back isn't of huge importance (not compared to Konoha's reasons for wanting Orochimaru gone) - sure, the extraction is slowed down a little, but is it worth risking injury or death of existing members for? Not particularly. I expect they would only bother with this if they saw him as a serious threat to their goals.

    Which, incidentally, they don't - in the cave scene of the last chapter of part 1, they didn't take him seriously as a threat, and implied that they could kill him.

    Akatsuki > Orochimaru. Itachi plays no part in this topic at all.
     
  8. slumpy doesn't need a Custom title

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    I like your idea wrath. But i think there are al s-ranked shinobis Even if the akatsuki wil atack with 9 members (Iinc. tobi) and they make one mistake oro wil kill them. the same if oro is fighting alone against one member. ( no one specific) He makes one mistake he wil die.
     
  9. Last of the Uchihas Get your own girls, Jonas!

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    We already know why he wasn't replaced, they don't have his ring.


    We already know he escaped Akatsuki because Itachi was stronger than him.

    So far they didn't have a problem with Oro, as they do have Akatsuki spies in his lair, and its after Oro gets the Sharingan, that Akatsuki decides to plan and take Oro out of the Picture.



    They are not weaker without the tenth members, its just the that procedures take mroe time without the tenth member.



    False, read above.

    Go read the manga again.

    They knew that Oro had the ring, and Akatsuki does nothing about him.


    If when Oro interfer in their plan through Naruto and obtaining Sasuek, that Akatsuki agree that Oro must be take out.



    How many people you have seen in that room?

    None besides Oro and Kabuto,

    and we do know that Oro do lays traps as he did back in Konoha.

    so there must be a secret room within Oro's lair.


    False, as none of them ever mentioned they want the ring back, however did say, they won't allow Oro to transfer his soul to Sasuke.

    They are only worry about Oro possessing Sasuke, not that Oro has one of the ten rings.


    Nope, they were speaking about reputation, and in the condition Itachi was in.

    We all know what saved Jiraiay was the plot no jutsu as Itachi would ahve used amaterasu, black hole no jutsu or tsukuyomi on Jiraiya, and kill him right there.



    I don't agree.
     
  10. Lenas I won't let down my friends!

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    I believe when Sasori was first introduced, or sometime around that, he mentioned that they would take care of Orochimaru "soon"

    They aren't scared of him.
     
  11. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    You're missing the point. They COULD get it back, but not without getting 2 or more of their members french fried. The ring isn't worth that.

    EDIT: Oh god, everyone missed it.
     
  12. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    So then Orochimaru > Akatsuki leader? It seems that would have to be true for your theory to work.
     
  13. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    You realize that Itachi might be stronger then the leader, right? It seems likely that the leader is the strongest, but there might be another reason that he's in charge.
     
  14. Kyuubi Naruto Hounds of Justice

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    This was to another reason to prove Orochimaru>Itachi and to prove that he isnt a weaker member of Akatsuki. Not the strongest. Theres really no chance that Itachi is as strong as the Leader based on the way this manga is. Also why would the Leader go into battle and fight Orochimaru when he has underlings? He never said anything about Orochimaru being stronger then them all.
     
  15. Yakushi~Kabuto Banned

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    At least Deidara who is likely the strongest among Akatsuki and the BossAkatsuki don't seem very worried about Orochimaru.

    Deidara: no need to worry, huh! orochimaru will be killed huh!
     
  16. Woofie Coordinator

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    In addition, this theory could only possibly work under the assumption that being slightly stronger than your opponent removes all risk. You admit that this is a business decision, that it isn't worth the risk, but how does that prove Itachi - or any other member - to be weaker?

    Orochimaru's battle with Sarutobi is enough to prove that being superior to your opponent doesn't remove risk of serious injury... perhaps he should have exercised the same kind of caution that Akatsuki may well be.
     
  17. TheoDerek Rise Against

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    No, you missed the rest of my post.
     
  18. Yakushi~Kabuto Banned

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    what? :nuts
    Itachi is weak, he's no more in the court of the big people
    I can easily name ten shinobis who would murder Itachi
     
  19. Duality Timediver

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    This line is worth a lot and i totally agree.

    Orochimaru said Itachi is stronger than him.Why he had to lie?Why he wants Sasuke?Orochimaru was honest.

    Remember when Oro said why he didn't kill Naruto?Because Akatsuki wants Kyuubi.Therefore he doesn't want to become obstacle to them because he doesn't want to die.

    KnK gave the answer to this thread.
     
  20. Sake Hokage the nine wang'd fox

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    yeah, jutsus are so important to Oro thats why i think he wants the younger, more naive sasuke
     
  21. Wrath Mourning

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    Answer? She was agreeing with what I said!

    I want to stab you all. I admit I wasn't all that clear, but look:

    The risk far outweighs the potential gain. But that risk wouldn't exist if, as many people believe, Itachi can easily beat Orochimaru. If that was the case, then Akatsuki would just send him and they'd have the ring and ten members.
     
  22. conceptz Fox Mulder

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    maybe when oro said itachi was stronger than him, he meant that itachi is stronger than his "control." so basically oro won't be able to take itachi's body because itachi has grown stronger than oro's ability to control him.
     
  23. Katsura She moves she

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    Wrath? You're thinking waaay too deep into this.. Kishi probably didn't even think about what you said =/ He has the rings because Kishi says so, not because Akatsuki can't take it back. Orochimaru already stated Itachi was stronger than him. Let that be with that
     
  24. XxShadowxX Kicks Burning Orphans for Luls

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    omfg.. I really don't feel like responding to this but you just bugged me.

    Well maybe after he got owned, he picked up his arm and ran off. Then he formed sound village with his butt-buddy Kabuto. I would say that it is out of spite that Oro still has the ring.

    And The Akatsuki are supposed to MATCH the Bijuu's power in order to extract it, if you're missing someone -ANYONE- it will go slower, in an exponential decrease. Common sense no?

    wrong, Wrong. WRONG.
    It appears you skipped a few chapters, The Akatsuki have been planning on killing Orochimaru in the recent timeperiod, DEIDARA HERSELF WANTED TO GO KILL HIM. Does that say nothing to you?
    Deidara, although young doesn't seem to be a new recruit, I'm sure she knows well of Orochimaru and his strenght - but she's not scared of him at all.

    So unless Deidara >> Itachi, Orochimaru is weak.

    And what would that be? =/ enlighten me.
     
  25. Mateus. Van Hes.

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    Great theory i'll give you that. Sasori did say he had a spy in Orochimaru's hideout. If Akatsuki wanted it back, they'd know the location. Whats stopping them?
     
  26. genjo sanzo FLCLtard

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    I still think people are just reading a bit too far into this manga. I just don't think Kishimoto planned all this shit like Oro having the ring meant
    ORO >Akatsuki, it was to show what organization he was talking about way long ago. No one has even said anything about wanting his ring but not being able to.


    I'd have to agree with the people saying that Konoha and Akatsuki haven't killed him because they haven't found him. I'm pretty sure 9 amazingly powerful S nin and Konoha's stronger nin could kill him.

    EDIT: what's stopping them is they don't have the spy with them right now. duh.
     
  27. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

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    deidei gets cocky sometimes. look at what happened to him when he went after gaara. oro>deidara

    i was also thinking that orochimaru said itachi was too strong for him because he wouldn't go and kill itachi but try to posses him or transfer itachi's eyes to himself. if he were to just kill itachi he would win (with or without serious injuries but still he would win) but he can't beat itachi without harming his eyes.
     
  28. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    It's not too deep at all.

    If you want to see too deep, look here: Soritia

    The rings are extremely important; no ring, no Akatsuki member.

    Orochimaru still has his.

    What is too deep about this?
     
  29. Katsura She moves she

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    It's too deep. It's a manga. Let that be with that
     
  30. Woofie Coordinator

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    Who believes Itachi can easily defeat Orochimaru? Barely anyone thinks that, and if they do then it isn't worth wasting a single second trying to make them see sense.

    But I believe Itachi can just about beat Orochimaru (which still means Itachi > Orochimaru), and this topic has done nothing to prove or convince otherwise. As I said in an earlier post, being slightly stronger than your opponent doesn't remove all risk - Itachi would probably pick up serious injuries, and may even be killed himself. So it's perfectly feasible for both the risk to outweigh the gain (which really isn't that great) and for Itachi to be stronger than Orochimaru.

    The risk of Orochimaru fighting Sarutobi turned out to be greater than the gain (in my opinion, at least), since Oro was nearly killed and lost the ability to fight effectively as a ninja; but general consensus is not that Sarutobi > Orochimaru. That logic is just... bizarre.
     
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