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Orochimaru & Sasuke VS Kisame & Itatchi

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Ultra Instinct Senjutsu, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Ultra Instinct Senjutsu Mo-Kage, Mo-Problems

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    Location: Open Field / Konoha Crater
    Distance: 100 yards

    Stipulations;

    Both Uchiha have MS and are healthy
    No Edo Tensei
    Kisame has Samehada
    Orochimaru is fully healthy and has both arms
     
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  2. Omote Well-Known Member

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    Imo Sasuke goes after Itachi and they stalemate each other until Sasuke wins through attrition

    Meanwhile Orochimaru keeps Kisame busy from helping Itachi and eventually nabs or poison or some shit

    Plus, Kisame is a bit hampered with AoEs cuz he has a teammate

    I give it to Team 1 6-7/10 times high diff
     
  3. WorldsStrongest Padoru

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    Kisame gets lit up with Amaterasu or impaled on a Susanoo arrow before he can process what happened

    Oro isnt getting ggd the same way due to Sasuke bailing him out of every Genjutsu itachi tries bar Tsukuyomi, and oral rebirth countering Amaterasu.

    Oro and Sasuke trainwreck Itachi together, Sasuke alone would extreme diff his brother via stalemating Itachis every technique with his own version of it and outlasting him with his HILARIOUSLY better stamina feats.
     
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  4. ShinAkuma Fanboy Destroyer

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    What this guy said.

    I suppose there is a small chance Itachi could pull out a win or 2 due to sword of Totsuka and Yata mirror, but for the most part the Akatsuki duo are getting bounced.
     
  5. 1yesman9 One of Sasori's Spies

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    If it's MS Sauce+ team snake should win.

    If it's Hebi Sauce akatsuki should win. For this scenario they either split up according to strategy or stay together.

    Split up:
    If Kisame pairs with Sasuke, he beats him while Itachi beats oro. If Sasuke wins, he'll lose to Itachi afterwards.
    In the other case, Oro beats Sasuke, then dies to an Itachi who's already defeated Sasuke or is in the process of defeating him.

    Together:
    Sasuke can protect Oro & his summons from basic sharingan, but Oro has to play cautious to avoid Tsukuyomi. At the same time, Itachi can also protect Kisame from genjutsu.

    Itachi can protect himself & Kisame from a last resort kirin. Itachi can dominate the battle with susanoo. Kisame should have the edge over Sasuke in genjutsu-less combat due to raiton absorption. Summons get amaterasu'd.
     
  6. Itachiisinvincible Well-Known Member

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    Orochimaru > Kisame.
    Itachi ~ Sasuke.
     
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  7. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    Team snake win.

    MS Sasuke can already match up tremendously well with Itachi if not outright beat him. Orochimaru makes quick work of Kisame
     
  8. BlackHeartedImp Well-Known Member

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    Snake duo win. MS Sasuke skews this pretty heavily, seeing as how he is >= Itachi and Orochimaru is > Kisame. Itachi could take Oro, Sasuke takes Kisame and then Sasuke extreme diffs is the best scenario for the akatsuki duo imo.

    If Sasukes BBQs Kisame first, it gets worse.
     
  9. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    Itachi one shots Orochimaru with genjutsu per canon then matches Sasuke in a Susanoo battle until they both tire out and Kisame finishes Sasuke off
     
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  10. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    I hope I don't regret this post, but here goes nothing... :gglife

    Even though I know that you consider MS Sasuke to stronger than itachi (no matter how small the difference may be).
    But on other topics (mainly when it comes to Jiraiya) you keep saying that itachi is compared to EMS Sasuke and might be slightly superior to him and whatnot...

    How does this work out in your mind? :geg

    -----------

    OT:
    The first team is stronger overall. If it went as
    Sasuke fights itachi
    while Oro fights Kisame

    they will always win this fight.

    other than that, if it were actually 2 Vs 2 and it involved teamwork and they were fighting side by side.
    The final results might be different depending on how well they fight together against their opponent and how
    well their jutsu/fighting-style complement each other. :catshrug
     
  11. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    Which MS Sasuke is OP referring to? Either way he can't outlast Itachi in a Susanoo fight since one version of MS Sasuke can't use Susanoo, the next one can only use Susanoo ribcage and v2, and the last one can only spam v3 Susanoo a little more before he starts going blind
     
  12. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Sasuke spammed against Danzo because it was Danzo. Doesnt mean he would fight Itachi like that. So as long as MS Sasuke from Danzo fight keeps his composure as well as he did as Hebi then he wins
     
  13. Sapherosth One post man

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    MS Sasuke has no V4 until he was completely blind. Itachi has V4 AND tosuka and yata mirror. To say MS Sasuke can win is a fucking joke.
     
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  14. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Nah your overrepresentation of Itachi in every thread that pertains to him is a fucking joke. Like seriously I don't think Ive ever seen you say he loses, ever.

    OT: I'm sure the OP has V4 MS Sasuke (not blind) in mind for thread purposes anyways. He clearly states that he has both of them healthy as well.

    So try again, and maybe change your approach to this.
     
  15. IpHr0z3nI Well-Known Member

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    And Itachi didn't also utilize Susano'o period until he was blind. He later died while utilizing that very same V4 Susano'o. So who's worse? I think both Uchihas are entirely speculative here. Itachi is healthy, and Sasuke has access to V4 within his MS life span.(Which he does as per canon) The issue isn't even Sasuke having a V4 Susano'o, as Totsuka isn't piercing a V3 Susano'o, the issue is how much stamina does a healthy Itachi got. Since he is the most speculative aspect of this match up.
     
  16. Djomla Student

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    What being is this healthy Itachi you're talking about?
     
  17. WorldsStrongest Padoru

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    Matchup :catshrug

    I consider EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight only) Itachi and MS Sasuke all in the same tier, as do most people actually. Hell Im pretty sure Ive seen you yourself claim something along the lines of "EMS Sasuke is literally MS Sasuke with no stamina disadvantages, he has no other differences and showed nothing else"

    Tho in fairness that could have been cosmos cuz you 2 are basically the same person :catshrug

    Anyway, all 3 names are in the same tier, tho I do view EMS Sasuke as higher in the tier than either of the other 2 names, with Itachi being in the middle. Hes more dangerous than MS Sasuke is due to the Totsuka blade and having literal 0neshot potential with Genjutsu alone, but Sasuke beats him in a 1 to 1 because teh genjutsu advantage is useless, and Totsuka cant pierce sasukes own Susanoo, and Sasuke has better Stamina.

    I do routinely argue that the fight would be extreme diff even with that advantage tho, and Sasuek would look no better than he did after killing Danzo.
    V4 that literally does nothing but add extra strain to Itachi in a fight where hes already at a large stamina deficit you mean :slurp

    V4 that doesnt increase susanoos offensive power in any way so Totsuka is still walled entirely by Sasukes own V3 you mean :slurp

    V4 that still isnt tanking Kirin you mean :slurp

    Yata mirror thats also useless against Kirin you mean :slurp

    Theres a "fucking joke" here but its got nothing to do with saying Sasuke wins Ill tell you that :lmao

    Itachi LITERALLY cant do ANYTHING to his little bro. NOTHING.

    And hes getting outlasted 10 times outta 10.
     
  18. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Sasuke's slower than his brother even post obtaining EMS so there exists the advantage of faster jutsu execution speed latter has over former, presuming thier mental reactions transfer to Susano'o, most likely it does, implying he isn't landing an attack prior to latter landing one on him/Susano'o.

    He possesses dual ethereal tools that phase through the chakra construct and briefly seal it right after. Hence, MS Sasuke possesses almost no spare alternative to bypass nor penetrate V3, let alone V4.

    Kirin is unusable, once he shifted to MS and EMS and for good reason:

    1) it's way too hax of a maneuver in Narutoverse.

    2) He's thoroughly physically and arsenal wise; emaciated, as explicitly implied in canon.

    Regarding the general matchup, it depends on how it plays out, heavily. Many combos either could pull off as a team although Team 2 possess better coordination, and synergy.
     
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  19. Santoryu Scarecrow

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    finger genjutsu for oro :blinditachi
     
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  20. Santoryu Scarecrow

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    The war arc elucidated Itachi's superiority over MS Sasuke. The elder is not only more accomplished with the use of MS, he is also more intelligent, and possesses better base skills.

    MS Sasuke was quickly developing his MS and subsequently exhausted himself out. Itachi honed the MS to its maximum.

    Not saying there's a big gap between the two, but there is a gap.
     
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  21. IpHr0z3nI Well-Known Member

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    What war arc were you reading? As their mastery over the MS were identical. Both possess two MS jutsu with the third being Susano'o, and both of their Susano'o have the same forms with only thing being different is the special weapons they wield. As far as having more accomplishments with MS how is that so? Sasuke has done more with less, and while Itachi demonstrated the potential of the final product; Sasuke showcased to the reader the actual grind.

    More intellect is trivial, as both have their moments in their respective fights with Kabuto, and once again Sasuke has had to do more with less, and how oh how does Itachi possess better base skills when Sasuke is clearly the one who has more to offer outside of his dojutsu. What maneuver in Itachi's base arsenal that is on the level of Kirin? Hell does he even have an answer to the traditional chidori?

    Once again Itachi died following the debut of his full power. He also went blind utilizing Susano'o, thus I don't see your point. Regardless of the fact, for the purpose of this thread, both are healthy. Which does more of Itachi than it does Sasuke. Sasuke may have fizzled out prior to showcasing the full power of his Susano'o, but at least he didn't die doing so.

    And what exactly is that gap? Who has shown more with the MS. Who has done more, with less? What's Itachi's maximum MS output prior to his untimely death? Five uses? Sasuke has toppled that in his second showcasing of his MS. He even top that showcasing with the Danzo bout. You do know that it was Sasuke who changed the MS from a box of trump cards to actual staples in one's fighting style. He was the one that showcased the individual stages of Susano'o and demonstrated that one can change Susano'o from a trump card to a staple in one's arsenal. I'm not saying Itachi did assist on this, but he required Edo Tensei to even use the MS like the other three main Uchiha in the manga.
     
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  22. PradyumnaR Konoha's Sublime Blue Beast Of Prey

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    Orochimaru > Kisame
    Sasuke > Itachi

    Snake bois win.
     
  23. Gianfi Well-Known Member

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    This Sasuke is still inferior, he surpassed Itachi only with EMS as the databook stated.
    Itachi beats MS Sasuke with high diff
    Orochi beats Kisame with high diff

    Whoever finishes his fight first can go help his partner, so it’s pretty close.
    However if Orochimaru goes after Itachi, the latter kills him easy as we have seen, then he helps Kisa against sausage
     
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  24. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    Susanoo also adds extra strain to MS Sasuke in a fight especially if it's the MS Sasuke that has v3 Susanoo since he can't even spam it much longer without fucking going blind not to mention he's already used up most his stamina
    That's if OP means the MS Sasuke that can even match Itachi's Susanoo who once again can't even spam MS much longer
    We don't even know which version of Susanoo Itachi used to tank Kirin.. And it was implied it was V2
    Yata mirror and Susanoo ribcage are the only wrong answers tho since Itachi didn't even have time to whip out Yata Mirror against Kirin plus it could eat up Kirin anyway and ribcage was broken by brute force multiple times
    That's because he had fucking AIDS, had nothing to do with his power like in MS Sasuke's case..
    Huh? This never happened
    Uhh they've shown an equal amount of abilities with their MS, your bias is showing..
    Uhh Itachi given Sasuke's large chakra reserves and arsenal of jutsu vs Itachi's limited ones
    Not even close..
    Yea and fucking went blind
    :drake
     
  25. IpHr0z3nI Well-Known Member

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    And what about Itachi? He went blind as soon as he activated Susano'o. Sasuke was at least able utilize it in more than one battle without going completely blind.

    Are we reading the same manga? Sasuke manage to manifest Susano'o while utilizing other MS jutsu. Something Itachi didn't accomplish until his Edo stent.

    Agreed, but if this a battle of Susano'o. The person maintaining longer is entirely dependent on what stage they are manifesting. Forcing Itachi to always have, his questionable amount of stamina, ready and able to access stage 3/4 Susano'o could be a hindrance to Itachi long term.

    Which would bring up the question of why would Itachi even feel the need to utilize Yata's Mirror if the only thing is good for this bout is draining extra chakara.

    He went blind the minute he utilize Susano'o. And since we know Susano'o is detrimental to once health. We ultimately don't know what did him in. You can die because of lack of chakara as well. The illness just aided in getting him there as well as slow down his reaction speed, etc. etc. Sasuke case wasn't a lack of power, it was blindness. He still had enough chakara, and enough vision to go toe to toe with Naruto Rasengan soon after. Who knows if with proper rest Sasuke would have been able to at least utilize Susano'o, since both Itachi and Madara was doing it absent of their eyes.

    Read the manga. His eyes turned pale white as soon as he activated Susano'o(chapter 391 page 200)

    Bias? You don't even know where I'm going. Only Sasuke has utilized Susano'o as staple in his arsenal opposed to last minute panic buttons. Hence is why he doesn't receive the same flack when it comes to besting Jiraiya, as Sasuke is quite known to be more trigger happy with his MS. Where has MS Itachi, while alive, utilized two MS jutsu simultaneously? He still lacking in that department. Where has MS Itachi been able to manifest V2/V3 none stop without Knocking on death door? We didn't even know their were stages to Susano'o until Sasuke showcased it, and while Itachi Susano'o also fickle through the various stages, we always assumed it was do to running low on chakara/life force. It was Sasuke once again who created the style of utilizing Susano'o as staple rather than a last minute resort. And boy oh boy did he receive flack for doing so. His fighting style was often labeled boring in comparison to his hebi incarnation.

    Suffice to say, it isn't the amount of abilities. It how they utilized set abilities. Once again MS in Itachi hands were a box of trump cards, while the MS is Sasuke's hands became a fighting style in itself.

    So Itachi was sent to capture the eight tales with nothing his MS library but an MS genjutsu that Killerbee would later prove immune to? So Itachi was sent to capture/weaken the FIVE KAGE'S with not a fully matured MS being pitted against foes who are quite capable of defending against Amaterasu, while still still working out the kinks in the rest of his Mangekyou library. So Itachi was sent to fight against an Immortal, who despite no matter how many times you killed him, was completely immune to death from anything for ten minutes? This is before he activated V3 and much less V4, and still had work to pressure Danzo into using up those Izanagi timers. Meanwhile we have MS Itachi facing off against a Hebi Sasuke and Hydra Orochimaru individuals he could have one shot with Totsuka had he wanted to at any time. Itachi had rig the fight in order to not beat Sasuke in their final bout, and you expect us to believe Itachi had to do more with less. Most of Itachi's MS jutsu simply worked with simple application. No strategy applied to them, they were simply too Hax'd to defend against. How is that working more with, less?

    Once again read the manga. He utilized Tsukuyomi once, Amaterasu twice, and Susano'o twice. That's a total of five. I would provide the links, but I don't know how to, and further more, you can read.


    Once again read the manga. That would be Sasuke's third showcasing without a day in between. His first showcasing was against the Kages themselves. His SECOND showcasing was against Danzo. And finally his third and final showcasing was against Team 7. He may have went blind from utilizing Susano'o too much, but at least he didn't die.:giogio
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  26. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    Why do you keep saying that? No he didn't seeing how he walked up to Sasuke and even planted a transcription seal on him after using Susanoo
    Uhh I don't get it this response doesn't even relate to what it's replying to..
    It's usually the dudes who say "Read the manga" the most that completely make shit up
    :tiredpepe
    Wtf good would that do if he can't see?
    :tiredpepe
    Ok? So did Sasuke's after spamming MS but they both proved to still have vision..
    Madara said hi
    Uhh most the time he had MS until he finally started going blind?
    Huh? Itachi is the one that debuted the first initial stages of Susanoo..
    All of those fights Sasuke would've died if it wasn't for help
    :drake

    Atleast he didn't need help
    You mean the same MS jutsus MS Sasuke uses and spams way more than Itachi?
    No he most likely used it when he exterminated the Uchihas, then used Tsukuyomi on kid Sasuke before leaving Konoha, then used MS while capturing jinchurikis, used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi and Sasuke, Amaterasu on Jiraiya's toad, and spammed MS in his last fight against Sasuke.. Alot more than 5 times
    How was that fight against Team 7 a third showcasing? He used Susanoo one time and fucking went blind
    :drake
     
  27. IpHr0z3nI Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what even being blind means? It doesn't always equate to total darkness. Even Sasuke was able to see enough to stalemate Naruto with a chidori. His eyes were pale white, much like what happened to Sasuke, the only difference is that he was still able to manifest Susano'o, which makes sense considering Madara was able to manifest Susano'o without eyes.

    Oh I may have misread the comment here. I thought you arbitrated that MS Sasuke couldn't spam the MS longer than MS Itachi.

    But I posted the panel of Itachi's eyes mate, the minute he activated Susano'o. Once again read the manga.

    :giogio Do you know what it even means to be blind? It isn't exactly total darkness. There are stages to impaired vision, and based on the manga.(Chapter 484 page 11) Sasuke still had vision, he was just what we would probably consider legally blind.

    :giogio Which is why I been arbitrating constantly that blindness doesn't equate to total darkness.

    :giogio Madara was introduced much later than MS Sasuke. Even Edo Itachi, who was able to finally utilize the MS as a staple, was introduced before Madara.

    Uh....He only introduced Susano'o just prior to his death. Do you even know was V2/V3 even is?

    Were you here when Sasuke first unlocked Susano'o perhaps you weren't. Sasuke had the forums going crazy with his usage of Susano'o. We mistook Sasuke's V2 for V4 based on it being able to manifest a sword. Then Sasuke mentions that he didn't even master it to the level of Itachi in his fight with the Kages. Then V3 came along, and we thought that was for sure Sasuke final variation of Susano'o then the bout with Kakashi came, and revealed an even more completed Susano'o. It then took us years to find out what that V4 Susano'o could do. As I said before Itachi's Susano'o flickered through stages, but it was Sasuke that showcased that those stages could even be used for battle. Itachi's initial showcasing with MS was more of wank fest to Totsuka and Yata's Mirror. Hence is why we didn't even know that Susano'o had to go through stages to get there.

    All those fights features Sasuke training to master MS as well. Itachi entered the manga with a Mastered MS. Once again, you would have to have been here when Sasuke first manifested the MS. We automatically assumed that unlocking the MS would introduce him to the same level of power Itachi had. Long story short; Itachi had more against less, thus my stance still stands.


    Maybe if Sasuke was working with as much power as Itachi was working with at the beginning of his bouts he wouldn't have needed help either.

    Are you even reading why I am typing? MS Sasuke and Itachi only share Amaterasu and Susano'o.(And the later specifically distinguish itself with it comes to their final forms)
    Kagutsuchi, Sasuke's second MS ability, wasn't something that was just a point and shoot. It had to be utilized strategically, and did not fully prove to be an adequate second dojutsu ability until Sasuke unlocked the EMS. That's when it proved it worthy as an adequate substitute for the lack of Tsukuyomi.

    I was talking about his fight with Sasuke specifically. Obviously.

    He went blind, yes. But at least he didn't die in his final MS Showcasing.

    Going blind > Death, no matter how you put it.
     
  28. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Itachi equal to Sasuke? Are we all reading the same manga? Do you guys have a special back alley blowjob earned copy of some secret chapter we don't have?
    Look at common opponents.
    Sasuke vs Bee. Bee killed him 2 times effortlessly and would have killed him a 3rd time if his bijuudama wasn't blocked.
    Itachi vs Bee. Same moves that killed Sasuke didn't even touch Itachi. KCM distracting him and Bee attacking from behind didn't even touch him. How the fuck is Sasuke even close?

    A weaker example but still valid is this.
    30 percent Itachi Vs Kakashi. Itachi is taken down by a group effort but outside of that isn't having difficulty fighting Kakashi. He also fed Kakashi ball soup in part one. And he forced him to eat it with a fork.
    Sasuke post danzo fight vs Kakashi. Sasuke had the upper hand with susanoo, but I feel kakashi would have ended that fight with a win.

    And when they fought Kabuto together he was saving Sasuke repeatedly.

    Sasuke has only one chance to contend. Instantly go Susanoo. Otherwise he is crushed.

    Also, a personal question, why couldn't Itachi still Genjutsu rape? Kakashi felt no fear from Sasuke in the genjutsu department. But when it comes to Itach and genjutsui, mangekyo or not, Kakashi is eating a sand & shit sandwich, with no hands. Naruto even still believes that if he hit Bee with Tsukuyomi it's over. Hachibi would have to react in under a second to break it. Even then, half a second is still 36 hours in tsukuyomi.

    As for the match up, I feel Orochimaru handles Kisame, with some difficulty, but no damage. And Itachi handles sasuke low diff, then Orochimaru dies a quick death. BUT, if sasuke can stall itachi for long enough to get some support from Orochimaru, shit could get interesting.
     
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  29. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    :confusedjr
    That's because he wasn't fucking blind!
    That doesn't mean they were blind only that they were going blind since they still had vision which is the complete opposite of blind.. Look up the definition
    Yea but you made it sound like Itachi was never able to use V2 and v3 Susanoo just because he had trouble using it in his fight with Sasuke
    How is it obvious? Stop being a dishonest debater.. You said and I quote "What's Itachi's maximum MS output prior to his untimely death? Five uses?" meaning in his whole life
    :tiredpepe
     
  30. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, forgot that Itachi can beat BM Naruto so he clears everyone in thread neg diff. Our apologizes sire
     
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