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Replace Naruto with healthy Tsunade: pain

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Orochimaru op, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:27 AM.

  1. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    the fight that kishimoto wanted to make but we didn’t get to see (much to my disdain). Deva is on a cooldown and weakened, but the other paths are fine like agaisnt Naruto. Tsunade also gets full intel, but she starts the battle without katsuyu summoned, it’s just that she has access to the same intel via ANBU or something.


    She’s full health and didn’t expend any chakra, how Long can she hold them off, and, can she beat them kmowing all there powers and deva being on cooldown?
     
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  2. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    She can probably clean house against Asura and Preta but Animal Path is going to be a huge issue for her to personally deal with. If Katsuyu's acid is as lethal as believed, it can likely effectively deal with Cerberus, however.

    Tsunade's limited without a long-range move like FRS so Human Path keeps Animal in the game long enough for Deva to regain his powers. From then, it's pretty one-sided; Tsunade gets Bansho Tenin'ed into multiple chakra rods and is quickly subdued.
     
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  3. LostSelf Forest Sage Moderator

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    Tsunade is inmobilized by chakra rods.

    she'd give Pain a hard fight like Naruto did if he's just trying to capture her, considering she can heal and has too much strength.

    But essentially, if she can't kill the other paths before Deva regains his powers back, a BT + Chakra rods from the other paths will shut her down.
     
  4. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Could she not tag the animal path like she did against Madara? She did force him to use a replacement technique with a wood clone to stop that punch from ending the fight.
     
  5. Grinningfox Bored

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    You mean her plus the other Gokage?
     
  6. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t see them do anything expect follow up on her attack after she punched him. He didn’t look like he was mid dodge from another attack, or held in place, in fact the other kage show up near him after the attack, showing that they didn’t really do anything to help it.
     
  7. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    the only thing we saw is Tsunade's finishing punch on the clone

    it is quite literally conjecture to assume the other Gokage didn't help, especially when IIRC Tsunade says they collectively pushed Madara in that vulnerable position, not her alone
     
  8. Godaime Tsunade Densetsu no Kamo

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    It wasn’t a clone that she punched, it was the real thing. Madara is made to admit he produced a clone to avoid being sealed away by Gaara’s sand - a technique he’d never seen before and had no reason to prepare for in advance. Plus, you can literally see from the ash blown out of his body that he isn’t a Mokuton clone, which turn back into wood when obliterated. You might make a case for Hashirama’s Mokubunshin not immediately turning into wood when hit by Madara at VotE, but it was only stabbed and not totally obliterated.

    It is conjecture to assume she landed the hit alone purely because it happened off panel, but that doesn’t mean Kishimoto didn’t write in other stages of the battle that can allow us to fill in the blanks. After all, this is the Battledome and the whole point is to try and interpret the events that Kishimoto didn’t expand on.

    The Gokage are all in the exact same place as they were before Tsunade punched Madara as they are after. A is nowhere near Madara, but close ranged taijutsu is his only useful asset. Ōnoki is busy backpacking him and giving him flight, so he wasn’t using Jinton. The best you might argue is that someone used a ninjutsu to push Madara into the air, but even then it is still Tsunade who lands the decisive blow that Madara cannot stop.

    Tsunade’s statement refers to the entire combination attack that led up to, and followed that moment: Tsunade weakening Madara’s Susano’o, Mei blasting it towards A and Ōnoki’s vertical chop, Tsunade decisively shattering Susano’o, landing a hit on Madara, and Gaara coming in at the end to seal him away.
     
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  9. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Godaime. Couldn’t have said it better myself
     
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  10. wooly Eullerex BTW, Izanagi is a ninjutsu; chidori is a nin-taijutsu

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    even in that scenario, Tsunade just cannot compete against Pein.
    shed be fodderized by animal path,nuked by asura from the air, immobilized by chakra rods or combo'd by human path pretty easily
    i cannot imagine her taking out a path unless shared vision was restricted?

    i mean, its a medic vs a rinnegan user....:kickcan
    so i think this thread is pretty silly
     
  11. Siskebabas Well-Known Member

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    Does about as much good as naruto only her fight ends at absorbers full nelson
     
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  12. Samael Mal the malevolent one.

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    She losses, pein is a tier above Tsunade for a reason, her gig is trolled via shared vision and it's not like she has some insane striking speed or whatever so I doubt she'd beat it. Not only that but pein had knowledge on Tsunade so he could just opt to not engage in cqc but use asura and the animal path to end her.

    Pein counters her style and has dangerous abilities that can end her in cqc(chakra rods negates movement, human paths soul rip would one shot). If she wasnt one dimensional shed have a better shot but she'll fall and isn't clearing these guys before deva charges back up.
     
  13. Bonly Flame Alchemist

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    Kishi wanted her to land a blow on Deva IIRC but couldn't because it would've done too much damage so if it's the fight Kishi wanted then Tsunade would've lost but land a deadly/very damaging blow
     
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  14. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    Source?
     
  15. Orochimaru op Well-Known Member

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    With her monster strength wouldn’t she just break out of it?
     
  16. Siskebabas Well-Known Member

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    Well Naruto also had monster strenght yet sapping effect negged it
     
  17. Godaime Tsunade Densetsu no Kamo

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    It’s from a 2009 interview with Kishimoto apparently, you can .

    But I’ve never actually seen the raw scans of that interview or seen any confirmation that it was legitimate, so it’s something of a myth. It might be true though, we’d just need someone to confirm.

    ___________

    On topic, I think Tsunade can actually do well against Pein in this circumstance. If the fight goes how it did against Naruto canonically, then Tsunade’s battle plays out something like this:

    1. Asura Path rocket launches towards her, but this time Tsunade just obliterates it like Naruto did as she isn’t about to collapse from exhaustion. Worst case scenario, she gets stabbed or something in the process, but she uses Sozō Saisei and recovers in that case.

    2. Animal Path is up next. It has a giant rhino charge forwards and try to run her over, but she one shots it.

    3. A bull and Cerberus come out thereafter, speeding towards her as the rhino did. Katsuyu warns Tsunade about the Cerberus’ ability to split. Tsunade summons a bigger portion of Katsuyu to deal with one summon while she deals with the other - Rashinshō or Zesshi Nensan should be enough to immobilise the summon, as Amaterasu did.

    4. Afterwards, Tsunade gets close enough to engage the Paths in taijutsu, as Naruto did. Given that she’s a taijutsu user, it’s unlikely that Preta goes in by himself. Animal and Human Paths join it to stand in her way, so she has to take on all three of them in a taijutsu brawl unlike Naruto, who only had to take on one. With Katsuyu supporting her, I’d say she can take them on. She’ll struggle to land blows but she can blow up the battlefield to force them into the air, allowing her to connect blows. This would take a while though.

    However that leaves Naraka Path unchecked, who might revive Asura Path while Tsunade brawls with the other three. Alternatively, it revives another Path Tsunade destroys during her 3v1 brawl.

    5. Tsunade decides that she needs to destroy Naraka Path. So she sends Katsuyu after it while she takes on the remaining Paths by herself. She likely gets impaled by a chakra rod here and there, but she still has herculean strength even without delicate chakra control, and can still do damage regardless of whether she’s been impaled or not. Preta is pretty useless because it can’t absorb her attacks, and Human and Animal aren’t that talented in taijutsu anyway.

    6. Deva Path is restricted to taijutsu so he doesn’t bother engaging Tsunade - he would eat a punch and die. If Kishimoto’s interview is to be taken seriously, then he wouldn’t last long in a brawl against the Godaime.

    7. However, given how long it will take Tsunade to dispatch of the other Paths, Deva’s powers will come back before she’s able to put him down. If SM Naruto couldn’t do it on time, then Tsunade can’t either.

    So Deva blasts her repeatedly with Shinra Tensei, and after realising how resilient she is, eventually uses Chibaku Tensei and kills her.

    INB4 “Lol at Tsunade doing better than Jiraiya against Pein” - Tsunade and Jiraiya are on a similar level of strength. Jiraiya defeated 4 Paths and then took on all 6 at once while missing an arm, without any knowledge. Tsunade can defeat 5 and last a while against Deva with knowledge, but she does eventually die.
     
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  18. Francyst .......SakuraLover has abandoned us...

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    She has no chance against shared vision and animal path would prevent Katsuyu from doing anything to help.

    Using(?) feats from an interview. I didn't expect this even from you
     
  19. Godaime Tsunade Densetsu no Kamo

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    Ah yes, I forgot that spoken word from the author wasn’t legitimate.
    :kfam
     
  20. Bonly Flame Alchemist

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    Ok
     
  21. BlackHeartedImp Azul Bae

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    Tsunade does a lot worse. She can one shot any of the paths, but since Nagato is aware of her reputation and general abilities (he was not aware Naruto was a sage until they started fighting), he's likely going to keep his distance and let Tsunade come to him, which cripples a lot of her options. This would give her time to summon Katsuyu and strategize, but she doesn't have the arsenal Naruto does to keep the paths on their toes.

    She'd likely be able to take out Preta path, since it's useless against her, human path, since it's not that great at CQC, and Asura path if she gets through his projectiles, but she gets stalled out by Animal path and Naraka reviving the others.

    Deva's powers come back and she gets GG'ed thereafter.

    Final Count:
    Tsunade: 3 paths
    Jiraiya: 3 paths + killed human again
    Naruto: All 6
     
  22. Soul Agent of Justice Helper

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    I'll get you after work, GT.
    Like your post but disagree on some things, as we often do.

    Naruto, with prep, lost the moment he was captured.
    Hinata saving him is obviously a plot device b cause he needs to win in order for the manga to continue, but Pain is stronger than that version of Naruto.
     
  23. BlackHeartedImp Azul Bae

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    I'm not debating against that, I'm well aware. Even before then, he still managed to dust 5 of them and kill preta path again. Having prep/Intel is one thing, but being able to act on that Intel is another Imo. The gap between Naruto and Pain isn't as wide as some would make it seem, tbh.
     
  24. Zembie Ew, Sannin

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  25. BlackHeartedImp Azul Bae

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    @wooly Eullerex man, where have you been? I missed having 9 notifications and 5 of them being you and the disagrees :sachilove
     
  26. Soul Agent of Justice Helper

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    In my opinion is enough to say Pain wins 8-9/10 times, and without many problems some of those. Even with Deva without his powers from the getgo
     
  27. wooly Eullerex BTW, Izanagi is a ninjutsu; chidori is a nin-taijutsu

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    no, the gap is quite astronomical actually...
     
  28. Soul Agent of Justice Helper

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    First off your premise starts out different to what would probably happen.
    Pain has knowledge on Tsunade from the war, at least that she is very capable and a medical ninja. No reason to start blitzing her like he did with Naruto. He would most likely gauge the strength of one of the legendary Sannin and then evaluate from there, just like he did with Jiraiya.

    Your worst-case scenario already puts her at a massive disadvantage. If this happens Pain will obtain knowledge about Souzou Saisei, which means that he will most likely try to disrupt the chakra that heals her with the chakra rods, since he can see chakra with the Rinnegan.

    I don't know how you can possibly thing this isn't a huge factor into the fight.

    Which gives more knowledge to Pain about what she can do. This will obviously be very important throughout the fight.

    Rashinshou can be easily counter with reverse summoning and Animal has more summons, assuming Tsunade can hit the Cerberus. The smart thing to do is send the Cerberus and other summons to deal with Katsuyu while multiple realms and maybe one summon pressure Tsunade. A defensive maneuver to allow Deva to recover also makes sense.
    Keep in mind that Pain bodies are expendables since Animal can reverse summon them and Naraka can revive them.

    But now that Pain knows that Tsunade doesn't have ranged moves he can just keep his distance until Deva has his power back and just ST Katsuyu out of play. Remember that Deva knows that Tsunade doesn't have the Kyuubi, that she is a CQC fighter and incapable of threatening him on a ranged fight (unlike Naruto with his RasenShuriken), and that he has the numbers advantage here, with a possibility of reviving pretty much any realm when he wants.

    How can Katsuyuu help? The realms fought around far faster summons in their fight vs Naruto. How is Katsuyu alone going to do that much damage?

    More than enough time for Deva to be ready.

    That's a best case scenario for your case, really. It's just too much for Tsunade to even be competitive in some scenarios.
    The logical course of action is have Animal and Naraka on the air, and have the other four fight Tsunade until Deva has the power to ST Katsuyu, which is what he already did with the frog summons. She has no way of winning that.

    The definition of Souzou Saisei is precise chakra control + massive amounts of chakra. She is not going to be able to use her healing technique freely if she is being impaled with Chakra Rods.
    Also, she doesn't get to decide what Pain does. Pain can just as easily divert his attention to Katsuyu.

    Which is why they would most likely stay away from CQC.

    Why would you take an interview over a scenario that is never going to happen (the other realms will never let Tsunade close to Deva without dying first) vs. your interpretation of what we have seen in the manga enacted as an IC state of mind with killer intent?

    Don't see that being necessary, but if push comes to shove I guess this would be the end of the fight

    I do lol about Tsunade doing better than Jiraiya against Pain because Jiraiya was extremely lucky to have a perfect counter for Pain in that situation. Jiraiya is also more suited to fight vs. many opponents because of his multiple summons, intermediate and long Ninjutsus, fast attacks (still from range).

    ___________________________________​

    Basically Tsunade is outmatched as soon as Pain displays any level of basic tactical warfare. He has the numbers, power and techniques necessary to neutralize Tsunade, maybe even without needed Deva. Adding him just makes this match too one-sided.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019 at 12:31 AM
  29. BlackHeartedImp Azul Bae

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    That's fair. It's just not to the extent that Naruto is completely overmatched to the point of hopelessness, is all I'm saying. Something like Itachi vs Hebi Sasuke difficulty.
     
  30. wooly Eullerex BTW, Izanagi is a ninjutsu; chidori is a nin-taijutsu

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    no, no, naruto really is completely overmatched tho. really :neutral
     
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