1. Konoha Library has been renamed to New Leaf. Konoha TV will soon be (or has been) archived. For Naruto/Boruto manga AND ANIME discussion, go to

    New Leaf
  2. Stop Scrolling! We changed our address to narutoforums.org

    Please add the URL to bookmarks on your PC and phone.

    More details can be found here. Feel free to ask any question.
  3. Give your waifu the ultimate gift - being crowned the most popular waifu on NF by helping her win in Senjou’s “NF Waifu Popularity Contest”

    Feeling extra confident? You can now bet on your Waifu as well for fun forum prizes here

    Come on with everything your waifu does for, you should do this for your waifu.
  4. Avatar upgrade for members!
    All normal members can now have 175x250 avatars.
    Read more about it here.
  5. "Are you a Messi or Ronaldo fanboy? Come and nominate them and more of your favourite players in NF's UEFA Champions League Awards!

    If your nominees win, you could win points for cool forum prizes!

    Click here to play :) .
  6. Our latest NF Newsletter is out (November), read it here!
  7. It's that time of the year when everyone spreads good and magic things, to enter in the Christmas Spirit full of art HVoA invites you to

    ✵ Join the NF Christmas Extravaganza ✵
  8. 。◕‿‿◕。 Gobble gobble! Turkey day is nearing fast so hop on by to NFs Thanksgiving Raffle and give thanks to those that matter the most to you, win some goodies in the process too!
  9. It's that time again, where a certain lazy rodent refuses to host a wonderful NE-centric game. Come play the 2nd Mafia Game

    in the Nigerian Embassy (formally known as the Chatterbox) hosted by the one and only WAD! Test your skills, shitpost like no tomorrow!

    ...There's a prize if you win.

Richest 1% own half the world's wealth, study finds

Discussion in 'The NF Covfefé' started by GRIMMM, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. GRIMMM 心渡

    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Source



    A pretty horrible study finding, particularly after the financial crash in 2008 which made these people wealthier, and the fact a lot of wealth isn't taxed and is just passed on. The idea that 1% can own over 50% of the entire world's wealth is baffling to me, and yet nothing will change for now due to attitudes, as people still vote for those who push this agenda.

    I remember reading a report recently that the ultra-wealthy were afraid of the underclasses rebelling, forming a revolution, and coming for them to take their wealth away, but continued to not pay their fair share of tax. You couldn't make it up.
     
  2. wibisana still newbie

    Messages:
    9,986
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I dont mind if they own 50-90% of wealth as long as they pay the taxes fair and square. If the poor pay 20% they should pay 20% +maybe tax things that rich people buy for bragging rights such luxury cars, luxury home (above certain land + building cost) jewelry etc.

    Use the money to build schools and hospital and make them affordable
     
    • Disagree x 5
    • Agree x 4
    • Like x 2
    • Optimistic x 1
    • Lewd x 1
    • List
  3. Normality venus

    Messages:
    2,706
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Lol u dont mind if 1% of the population has basically all the money? :facepalm You dont even know what ur talking about. If many of these ppl payed taxes in the first place they wouldnt be as rich. The tax code should eliminate family dynasties, overly rich people etc if its fair
     
  4. wibisana still newbie

    Messages:
    9,986
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    If the wealth is product of natural competition in a fair way i dont see why people should be capped in term how much they can have. Whole competition has been driving force for humanity and every living earth to adapt and evolve
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  5. makeoutparadise I will have my revenge

    Messages:
    10,728
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    Its a good thing we're implimenting trickledown theory in our next tax plan right guys? Cause what we need to stimulate the economony is to give these guys MORE money.
    I mean wages havent risen in 30 years and the wealth gap is growing but sure more tax cuts right??
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  6. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

    Messages:
    21,740
    Likes Received:
    845
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, has a net worth of $86 billion, which is 0.1% of the world economy. Or about the size of Slovakia. Or more than Russia's defence budget.

    The global GDP/capita is about $10,000, meaning Gates is almost 10 million times richer than the average human being.

    (Provided my math isn't off)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. afgpride Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Yeah, I'm not concerned about how much more wealth someone has than someone else. I'm more concerned with whether they're being given an unfair advantage by authority, and if people on the bottom have class mobility. Clearly, the extremely wealthy have an ability to rig the system by bribing politicians and monopolizing goods and services, so the system isn't remotely as fair as it can be, and clearly extreme poverty around the world puts a lot of poor people at a near impossible position to build wealth for themselves. Therefore address the legal advantages of the wealthy, and restore the standard of living and class mobility of the working class. You can do this without artificially flattening wealth statistics.
     
  8. GRIMMM 心渡

    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    The problem occurs when a lot of this wealth isn't made by competing but simply by inheriting it. Do you honestly think someone who hasn't worked a day in their life or contributed to society in any way truly deserves the wealth that they too can hide away and never pay tax on? Not everyone who is wealthy has worked for it, but you can bet they're well advised to avoid paying tax.

    Don't even get me started on the power the wealthy have over most political systems, businesses, and institutions. How can people in poverty attempt to gain wealth when the system is against them? The system will always favour the wealthy making the so-called competition you talk about not truly a competition, but something akin to climbing a mountain with no equipment or breathing apparatus. If the system was fair and balanced you might have a point, but as it is now the point is moot.
     
  9. Dragon D. Luffy #1 Most Competent Bacteriophage

    Messages:
    13,786
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Well obviously they do because they have done half of humanity's labor during their lifetimes. After all we live in a fair society where those do deserve the most have the most.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  10. Yoshua #1 Kale Fan

    Messages:
    3,505
    Likes Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    You know what?

    So long as they pay their taxes... good on them.

    Good on them.
     
  11. Normality venus

    Messages:
    2,706
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I'm not saying eliminate competition but wealth should not be distributed that lopsided. Your tax code should seek to redistribute money if too much is pooling at that the top. Capitalism always has a tendency to award the clever few over the working many but that kind of unequal distribution never leads to peace.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  12. Ashi Ka-Ka!

    Messages:
    19,114
    Likes Received:
    875
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    I don't think it's just the fact that they're richer but how it means that them owning as much wealth as they do just doesn't leave a lot for anyone else, which is only a problem if they don't give back their fair share.
     
  13. DonutKid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,119
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    What can a country do though? Capital gains tax? Wealth tax? Unless there's a supranational entity which coordinate tax and economic policies, the rich will just move abroad.
     
  14. makeoutparadise I will have my revenge

    Messages:
    10,728
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    Yeah but they dont do they?
     
  15. wibisana still newbie

    Messages:
    9,986
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Yes as @afgpride said we had problem with wealthy-politician ties everywhere. But that doesnt mean that we has to sacrifice competition.
    I dont have problem with inheritance, we all inherited our immune system from our mother, we inherited knowledge from our ancestors, I worked to make my kid not to live in poverty if i die i gladly pass my wealth to her/them. You can put inheritance tax but i disagree if you say it is not ok to inherit things. It is still fair from my PoV because the money/inheritance ideally come from fair competition. And getting head start because your parents were rich also part of natural order, just like good genes that passed on could help creature does better in nature
    I think it is product of corrupt politician (one get their donation from the rich ofc they will help the rich to get less tax) and i agree we had this problem.
     
  16. Makeham Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Reputation:
    No surprises here.

    Wealth is a function of asset prices, the better the stock market performs the greater the gap between people that hold large quantities of equities and those that don't. Every time the stock market does better wealth inequality is going to increase.

    The middle class is encouraged to borrow money for homes and college. There's no reason that the growth in value of a home could or should out pace the value of a well managed company (Homes don't produce anything except rent and unless you restrict the supply home values can't grow faster than nominal income indefinitely) and as for college, degrees are worth far less than they used to and cost a lot more than they used to, young people in their 20s are put back several thousand dollars in a manner previous generations were not.

    Taxes on personal income would flatten income inequality but do little to reduce wealth inequality, and sadly most of the psychodrama around inequality looks at income taxes rather than Capital gains taxes. Mind you I view taxes as being a tool to fund public goods, not to level out people's income or wealth.

    But there are negative side-effects to a winner-take-all-economy. (Including increased popularity of tax and regulatory policies that won't work) And income's not irrelevant here though, on the off chance it gets young people to stop borrowing and become net-savers. Improvements in the economy since 2008 have not by and large translated into income growth.
     
  17. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,572
    Likes Received:
    322
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    I dont want to sound like a dick. But if they are actually following the tax code which allows them to pay so little in taxes, doesnt that mean they are INDEED paying their fair share?

    Honestly, this is the fault of the lawmakers, not them.
     
  18. makeoutparadise I will have my revenge

    Messages:
    10,728
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    Idk london seems to be doing okay and they're supposedly the finacial hub of eruope
     
  19. Makeham Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Reputation:
    I think the argument of 'blame the game not the players' would be reasonable if the players of said game were not also interested parties in the rules of the game. They're not purely subjects of a system, they act upon it as well.

    Though i can respect someone who openly states they take out deductions so that they pay as little as they need to... unless they also complain that tax rates on their own income class should be higher. Nobody forces you to take deductions.
     
  20. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,572
    Likes Received:
    322
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    I remember reading that wealth dynasties per se (or at least enduring ones), are rare, because inheritors tend to be shadows of the former selves of the creators, who will in turn inherit less money to the next generation and so on and so on.

    Basically Gates's inheritors will be way less richer than Gates and the second inheritors will inherit less and then less, eventually the wealth or at least the majority, will be dilluted back into society through spending.

    I personally know the grandaughter of a guy that had freaking mines of silver and whose dad was a high general and she is an average woman.
     
  21. wibisana still newbie

    Messages:
    9,986
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Also it is common in Indonesia that inheritance is so pity
    I mean if my great grandpa had 1km2 farm land, he has 10 kids so my dad would only get around 0.1km2, my dad got 2 kids so i would only get 0.05 km2 which is still big but it is quite smaller than my grand pa's
     
  22. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,572
    Likes Received:
    322
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    Exactly and to this add, lack of skill or just interest to build the same wealth of the grandpa. Not only are you getting less than 10% of your grandpa, you also likely lack the skill and/or interest to build wealth using the land in the same degree your grandpa could.

    Lets say some of Gate's kids or grandkids inherit 50 million. Can they use the 50 million as effectively as Gates could to build a 86 billion empire? Probably not. Will they even want the hassle to begin with when they can just live as kings for the rest of their lives without working a single day? Should they choose to just live the good life, you will likely see those 50 million go poof in 2 generations or less. Before you know it Gates's direct descendants will be middle class taking a college loan to get a degree and land a decent job.
     
  23. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,572
    Likes Received:
    322
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    Yes of course, but nontheless the responsibility lies in lawmakers.

    I mean, obviously the rich are going to look for avenues to pay less taxes and infuence lawmakers to mantain the status quo. Thats natural, the onus is on the lawmakers to do it.

    I mean, honestly, wouldnt you do it?

    If I gave you 200 million dollars and you had to face 20%+ tax on it (a whooping 40 million) or you could legally move it to a country or use a tax system where you will pay 1% or less, wouldnt you take it? If to keep paying 1% or less you had to make a completely legal 1 million donation to a political party as opposed to 40 million if the law gets changed, wouldnt you do it?

    The lawmakers on the other hand, are supposed to be the representatives of the people and they should do exactly that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  24. Makeham Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Reputation:
    XD Well right now I earn a little over 70 thousand dollars a year and a little over 30% of my income goes to the government. (at one level or another) -- In Europe I would probably be paying the top marginal rate that those countries offer.

    I agree with you in principle but in spirit most voters are gullible, also from the perspective of an entire civilization I can't look favorably upon situations where individuals are acting rationally from their own perspective in such a manner as ultimately harms everyone [including themselves in the long run] Plus, no politician openly runs on increasing the complexity of the tax code but seeing as every constituency wants something taken off for them it ends up happening regardless.
     
  25. Onomatopoeia In a word: Brilliant

    Messages:
    14,883
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Reputation:
    Abolish the concept of money. Problem solved. :quite
     
  26. Baroxio Unlimited Strategy Works

    Messages:
    6,183
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Competition? You realize that in order to obtain such huge amounts of wealth, you generally need to have a monopoly, which is literally the antithesis of competition, no? Furthermore, said money is often passed down directly to their children; where does "competition" play into a child receiving a billion dollar inheritance?
     
  27. wibisana still newbie

    Messages:
    9,986
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I already posted my opinion about inheritance

    Yes i think inheritance still fair competition as fair as getting good legs if you are Ussain Bolt's son

    What is not fair is, getting money from corruption like Qaddafi, Any other corrupt dictator.

    Also yes there are problem with rich people - politician ties
     
  28. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

    Messages:
    21,740
    Likes Received:
    845
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    She should marry some rich guy and then rip him apart in divorce court. Problem solved. :zaru
     
  29. GRIMMM 心渡

    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Dat Star Trek utopia tho.
     
  30. Chie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I'm very much opposed to this Robin Hood mentality of a % based income tax. The wealthy should not be taxed more because they're not more inclined to use tax paid services more than anyone else.

    It's the wealthy that create job opportunities, it's the wealthy that keep the economy strong, it's the wealthy that are responsible for the high living standards in the West.

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • Sad! x 1
    • List

Share This Page