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Rock Lee vs. Tayuya

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Nighthawk, Jul 7, 2005.

Pick

  1. Lee wins.

    31 vote(s)
    47.7%
  2. Tayuya wins.

    34 vote(s)
    52.3%
  3. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Nighthawk

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    Rock Lee is faster than Tayuya and he could score with his taijutsu moves. However, Tayuya is a very smart girl and she is the worst possible enemy for someone like Lee. She's a genjutsu specialist. Shikamaru managed to get out of her genjutsu, but unlike Lee, Shikamaru's IQ is over 200. Lee is pretty stupid, I doubt he can do something against genjutsu. Also, don't forget Tayuya's summoning jutsu. She could distract Lee with those and prepare a strategy or just hide and use a genjutsu. How will this end?
     
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  2. Hef

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    How will this end? Lee gets his ass handed to him. As much as I like Lee, I can't say that he wins this. Lee is way dumber than Shikamaru, he has pretty much no chance of getting even close to Tayuya when she gets serious.
    Tayuya's summons would be enough. I don't see Lee figuring out a way how to deal with them, it took even Shikamaru some time and some plain luck. And if Lee indeed is able to get past her summons, she would just kill him off with her Genjutsu.
    :)
     
  3. Insipidipity

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    I don't know, I actually agree with Shikamaru's assessment. He believed a close range fighter is what would be best at fighting Tayuya, and I believe that. While I think he'd be utterly vulnerable to genjutsu, she doesn't seem to use that off the bat. Shikamaru's main weakness wasn't getting to her, it was actually doing some damage. If Lee arrived instead of Temari, he'd be able to pull off a Lotus on her unlike Kimimaro. In fact, I think thats part of the reason why she knew Kimimaro could kill her. In addition to other things, he's a close range fighter.

    I'd say his speed actually matters in this fight. Most fights the opponent is at least somewhat fast or good at hiding, in this one, Tayuya stands around much like Gaara except uses sound/summons instead of sand. This is where Tayuya and Kankuro and any other puppeteer of sorts has a problem if they're in the open. With melee summons, Lee could get past them with enough speed and land a hit in range of Taijutsu since she's busy with her summons and once that hits,the summons are useless.

    This is the kinda matchup that Lee really shines through.
     
  4. Bass

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    Why does everyone say that Lee is dumb? It's been shown before that Lee is a smart fighter who actually takes time to analyze the opponant.


    Like stated before, Shikamaru even said that a close-range/taijutsu user is more suited to fight Tayuya.


    While it's true that Lee might get caught in Tayuya's genjutsu, I'm sure he will realize how to escape it.


    Then there's his speed. I'm positive that if he takes off his weights, he can snatch her flute right out of her hands.

    I say Lee for the win. :leepose
     
  5. Insipidipity

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    I respect lee but I'm so naive as to say he can snatch her main weapon out of her hands with or without weights...

    Where has it been shown that he analyzes his opponents? Both Kimimaro and Gaara all he did was keep attacking them even though it didnt really do anything. He's a skilled fighter but he's really not a smart one. He could've learned to use Shishi rendan so that he doesn't suffer too much of the effects of the Omote Renge but he doesn't. I'd rate him higher in intelligence than Chouji but Dumber than naruto(who actually uses tactics). I firmly believe if Lee was smart like Shino and Shikamaru, who can do so much despite a lack of fighting power, he'd be a monster. But he's not, he's pretty dumb. He's knowledgeable a little about some ninja stuff and he's not a klutz like naruto, but in the overall scheme of fighting strategy, he uses it almost as little as Chouji(who wouldnt use any if it werent for Shikamaru if you ask me).

    If lee got caught in the Genjutsu, I don't think he'd stand a chance, but I believe he won't get caught. He has more than enough strength to break the branch Tayuya was on and cause her to stop at least temporarily.

    Its not so much his speed but how Tayuya fights that would win this for Lee. Tayuya is far too cocky and leaves herself too open for a close range fighter not to capitalize. And she seems to have a set pattern of fighting since she calls her genjutsu "the last" part of the song. He'd be able to beat her if she tries to use her summons which is most likely her first method of attack.
     
  6. Bass

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    In the fight with Kimimaro, Lee did analyze him.

    When Kimimaro's rib-cage came out, did Lee jump back and run at him? No, he studied him and thought he have to move faster....it's not his fault that he didn't know that Kimimaro could grab his foot with his bones.


    I agree on the Shishi Rendan thing, though. But the Shishi Rendan wouldn't exist if Lee didn't use Omote Renge.

    Dumber than Naruto! Name three times Naruto uses tactics.
     
  7. InnerGaara

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    Tayuya would win.Becuz Lee isn't smart enough to avoid Tayuya's Genjutsu.
    But Lee with open gates would make some diffrence he would be tooo fast and Tayuya is a bad Taijutsu user s? Lee with open gates would win.Without gates open lee is DOWN!
     
  8. Nighthawk

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    I take it you like Lee. Good for you. He's a funny guy with advanced taijutsu. But Lee isn't exactly smart. Sorry, but he's a dumb fuck. Lee is so stupid he got beaten against enemies by far weaker than him.


    True.

    Sure he will get caught. Tayuya just has to play on her flute and it's over.

    Nope. Tayuya doesn't have any openings. Read the manga, Shikamaru stated she is very skilled and a smart tactican just like him. That's why your assumption that she won't pull a genjutsu first thing doesn't make sense. She quickly analyzed Naruto and Shikamaru that time in the forest and came up with a strategy.
     
  9. Insipidipity

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    I can name 10
    1. Kiba: Transforms into Akamaru
    2. Kiba: Transforms back into Akamaru(dog) instead of back to normal
    3. Using the Naruto Rendan to finish Kiba(its an effective taijutsu that takes advantage of Kage Bunshin to imitate Shishi rendan)
    4. Lighting up Gaara's behind with 1000 years of pain
    5. Neji: Uppercut for the win
    6. Rain Genin: Drew them out by pretending everyone was tired and using Kage Bunshin
    7. Zabuza: Transformed into shurikan and had Sasuke throw him(he came up the plan, sasuke just figured it out)
    8. Kagebunshined his way out of Orochimaru's snake
    9. Figured out to use another hand to do Rasengan since he can't randomly rotate chakra
    10. Chase arc: Kage Bunshin faked Rasengan to allow Kiba to attack, jumped over Tayuya.


    When Lee got hit by the Ribs OF COURSE he ran back, he got hurt...he'd be an even bigger idiot than Chouji if he ran right back in. Saying he needs to go faster isn't a tactic, if it is, its the only tactic he knows of. Ohhh I can't get past the sand, I'll just go faster...Ohhh I got hurt, I'll just go faster...etc.
    for a guy that can rip up the dirt, you'd think he'd try something like breaking the ground under gaara so he'd trip. Heck, he even told Kimimaro to stop so he can take his "medicine" WHO DOES THAT IN A BATTLE?

    And why the hell do so many people think that just because someone's bad at taijutsu, they would lose to someone good in taijutsu. Taijutsu is known as the WEAKEST of the 3 kinds of jutsus. The only reason there are people who are bad at taijutsu is because they quite frankly don't need it.

    BTW, to the poster above me, Genjutsu seems to take a little bit to take affect because one note isnt a song and thus can't really be a genjutsu.
    Secondly, I said she probably plays it last because of the way she called it her last song
     
  10. Bass

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    Due to the stuff said...I realized something. Lee hasn't had a good run. Gaara, Neji, Dosu, Kimimaro...however, we all have seen a new Lee.


    One with no inhibitions, a bad attitude, and sloppiness. That's right, just give him a bottle of sake and let the good times roll.


    Will genjutsu work on a drunk?
     
  11. Hef

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    Will lightning work on a frog?
    Of course genjutsu works on a drunk. Heck, it may work even better for all we know.
     
  12. Nighthawk

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    Damn, that's a good post. You know, people really think like that and that's what pissed me off in the Kankuro vs. Lee thread.

    Tayuya said she can perform tens of genjutsu with that flute.
     
  13. Insipidipity

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    Really? I don't remember her saying that. And unfortunately my episodes only archived back to Kimimaro vs. Gaara.
     
  14. Hef

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    I think she said that in the manga, not sure about the anime though. :S

    Edit, yep, here it is.

     
  15. Bass

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    *Looks around*

    Well, I know when I can't win. Anyone else want to take a shot?
     
  16. Insipidipity

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    Um, I agreed with you that Lee would win, just I don't think he'd win that easily. He'd win because of the way the match plays in his favor as a relatively skilled taijutsu user, but not because he's cunning or ultra-fast.
     
  17. Bass

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    Ahh... :oh


    Well, if Kimimaro managed to beat Tayuya along with the rest of the sound 4 using taijutsu. Then again, Kimimaro was near jounin level.



    So, I guess Lee could win. Maybe Gai is better suited for this fight.
     
  18. ChickenPotPie

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    I agree with Shikamaru. A close ranged fighter would beat Tayuya without trouble, even with genjutsu.



    Then again, maybe not so much. Shikamaru stated that a close ranged fighter would be better for the situation. It wouldn't end the match completely. Still, Lee doesn't hesitate to kick people. I don't see how Tayuya could deal with that. Unless she hid.
     
  19. Nighthawk

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    Actually, Shikamaru said someone who can blend in with his surroundings would do better in a fight with Tayuya. Like Neji or Kiba. Lee would be helpless if Tayuya decides to hide and kill him with her genjutsu.
     
  20. Reznor Administrator

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    Were do you get this?

    From what I have seen, her specialty was being tricked, not being the tricker.

    And vice versa, her ogres can't block Lee from getting to her.

    It's first strike wins.
     
  21. Nighthawk

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    Manga.

    lol yeah the guy with iq 200 was smarter, but he said Tayuya isn't bad either.

    I think her genjutsu is more dangerous than Lee's taijutsu. Lee pwned his enemies with taijutsu, but in the end he lost every single time. Unlike Neji, Lee doesn't have the ability to end it with one attack. Tayuya can quickly analyze his skills, since he doesn't have a lot, and come up with a strategy to kill him.
     
  22. Insipidipity

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    I looked at the manga(for the first time) and I notice it did say that. However, the anime says a close range fighter would be better. Now, she mentions Kiba and Neji which are close range fighters but I don't see how they blend in. Not to mention that he says sound attacks from a distance so I don't see why blending in has to do with anything. It makes more sense for it to be what the anime says(theres been quite a few times when the manga doesnt make sense, like saying the moon turn into the sun, saying Shino's a chuunin, and some other things).

    One thing is that she stood in the open the entire time when fighting Shikamaru, thats one of the main differences between her as a puppet master of sorts and Kankuro. Shikamaru learned just by looking at her visually. Also, she says she can use genjutsu in CS2 form, but she only referred to it as a last resort and the Sound 4 was even ashamed they had to use it against jounin. Its not something they use off the bat, and thats where she would faulter.
     
  23. Nighthawk

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    It makes perfect sense. Kiba (smell) and Neji (byakugan) could track her down when she's hiding and attacking with the sound of her flute.
     
  24. Insipidipity

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    But that doesnt have to do with "blending in with his surroundings"
    Thats someone who can track their opponents. Very different. Predators track, Prey blends in.
     
  25. User Name

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    1.if there is a contradiction between the anime and the manga. take the manga because the manga is written by kishimoto.
    2. Moon turning into the sun is a mistranslation.
    3. Shino thinks he is good enough to be a chuunin. It just means Shino is cocky.
     
  26. Kuukaku

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    I think Lee loses just because he isnt as smart and Tayuya uses genjutsu
     
  27. Insipidipity

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    1. See #2.
    2. Exactly
    3. I doubt that.

    I believe in an interview, Kishimoto said that he considers the manga a draft and the anime a final product, so it could be that he uses the anime as an opportunity to fix any thing he did wrong in the manga such as something that doesn't make sense like Shino calling himself a chuunin.

    Secondly, keep in mind that we're getting translations. Translations might contradict depending on the translator. If I see a bunch of translation inconsistencies in the manga translation and fewer in the anime, I'll go with the anime. To be more specific, if the manga's translation makes no sense and the anime's translation does, I'll assume the anime is more accurate.
     
  28. Chatulio

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    hmmm thing is though if lee gets close he will win but if tayuya hides and lee cant find her he is scred
     
  29. chakra25

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    I wouldn't call Lee dumb. In terms of intelligence, I have to admit Naruto is the dumbest. Don't go bagging on me here... Naruto IS MY FAVOURITE Character in the show. He failed the Academy Exam 3 consecutives times and had to retake the Academy Classes.... make that 4 times. The only reason why he was able to become a gennin and pass Academy level was because he demonstrated the techiniques in the field. He was dead last in the words of Iruka. Plus, he read the secret scroll to learn the Kage Bunshin Jutsu, which is unfair to all the other students.

    The thousand years of pain on Gaara was dumb luck. He wasn't planning on aiming for the weakest point in Gaara's armor. It's more like Naruto was fooling around and manage to get lucky with that move. :laugh

    Enough about that... I can see Lee losing to Tayuya by the genjutsu. It doesn't require intelligence to get out of Genjutsu. Sasuke was able to get out of it by stabbing his legs when he fought Orochi in Death Forest. Sasuke is less intelligent than Shika and Sakura. It's all based upon a fighters instincts. I'm sure Lee knows how to inflict pain on himself to get out of it. The summons would be useless against Lee with 5 Gates open and no weights. Tayuya won't even see Lee moving that fast. One hit should put her out. Lee can move faster than sound with 5 Gates open and weights off. I'm going for draw here because it can go both ways.
     
  30. User Name

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    could you find the interview for me. I doubt that kishimoto considers the manga as draft. Kishimoto doesn't have much to do with the anime. The animators interperated the manga and has the liberty to change anything for any reason.

    Shino calling himself make sense; 1. he's cocky, or 2. he wants to intimidate the enemy. Both of these options seems reasonable.
    iirc, shino calling himself a chuunin is also in the anime.
     
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