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Sakazuki vs Big Meme.

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome' started by Extravlad, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    What is Meme's best durability feat?

    Blocking a Kong Gun from Luffy who still isn't strong enough to beat her First Mate is hardly impressive for a top tier.
     
  2. Doc Mindstorm Walking In The Air

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    That's fact spinning - Kong Gun is more than enough to beat Katakuri problem is same as with Crocodile(in Arabasta arc) - landing hit, when "First mate" got haki disrupted his ass was whooped very obviously, although he managed to get hold of himself.
     
  3. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    Didn't spin shit. If Katakuri didn't casually mentioned that Gear 4 was going to run out & Brulee wasn't there Luffy would have been dead now. Not to mention current G4 >> version against Mingo & Cracker.

    Gear 4 Luffy couldn't beat Injured Mingo, Cracker on his own. And those didn't have Katakuri level CoO. Being protagonist Luffy is now going to get an ass-pull power up to beat Katakuri. That's all.
     
  4. Emperor Whitebeard New Member

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  5. Doc Mindstorm Walking In The Air

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    You did, don't backpedal now, Kong Gun already dealt damage Katakuri he cannot tank it - problem is not with technique, so Luffy strength stats won't go up,he is just struggles to land hit on him. Your claim was Meme tanking Kong is not feat because Kong atm cannot(not strong) beat Katakuri - and that's spinning from the fact that Luffy cannot land hit on Katakuri(win fight overall).
    Kong does this to mochi mouth.
    Spoiler:



    So your original claim
    Is spin. Luffy already can strong enough to beat Katakuri he is not fast/agile enough to beat him however, so yeah tanking Kong is great feat, especially considering Meme not speed fighter to begin with and even few tiers below Luffy possibly can be faster than her.
     
  6. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    Gear 4 still wiped the floor with Katakuri till his CoO hax came back. It is a very powerful form, and BM casually blocking an attacking from it is very impressive.

    Anyway BM tanked that massive thunderbolt that came from a super amped up Zeus. Of course I expect people to downplay its damage, but it had to be very strong. A much weaker bolt from Nami laid BM’s crew out earlier, I can only imagine a bolt that comes from Zeus directly is much stronger.
     
  7. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    That's just rambling without substance.

    Gear 4 in all it's glory couldn't beat injured Mingo, Cracker & Katakuri. That's Fact. I said nothing wrong or spin anything. And taking a hit without damage from said G4 that failed to beat anyone of worth is not impressive.

    If you factor in that supernova's will team up against Kaido to beat him, the same Kaido who even Meme warns about then you see just how far behind Luffy actually is from top tiers. And Luffy in Wano >> Luffy in WCI.

    Do you know what's not a fact? You claiming Gear 4 can beat Katakuri. Luffy used haki in overdrive & couldn't beat him. In truth Katakuri has already won when Luffy escaped from him through mirror world. He did so cause he knew he would get his ass handed to him.

    You can say it's because of Katakuri's CoO. Well it's one of his skill set. He isn't a sandbag for Luffy to practice on. Luffy's has CoO & G4 made him very fast. Just not fast enough so that he can hit Katakuri (like he did against snake sisters) I guess.
     
  8. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    Oh, it's a very powerful form. It allows him to hang out with top Yonko commanders. Just not strong enough to solo them. Even injured ones.

    And Yonko & their commanders are on a completely different level.

    That shit was weaker than Enel's casual El thor.
     
  9. Onewhosbeenaround ZZZZZ

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    I agree wit this assessment and besides whats with the whole well if wasn't for Katakuri's CoO he would have been beaten (not a chance) when it's a specific skill set for him one that he has trained to get up to that level when the same argument applies to Luffy. Take away CoA from Luffy and guess what no g4.
     
  10. Doc Mindstorm Walking In The Air

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    Lol do tell that to Oda then, because he drew manga that way.

    Speaking about
    that's what you just did, lol "All it's glory" now matter how much you repeat that mantra that's not what happened in manga.

    Stop taking things out of your ass, you not author and we did not reach Wano yet.

    Because we saw it all happening, do you have time machine per chance?

    Thanks Captain.

    And you what this part of message is?! Another spin - never I claimed that Luffy was going to win. And for Pete's Sake leave that moral rightfulness in fight tantrum alone. Simple thing I stated, just wrap it around your mind G4 hit from Luffy Katakuri cannot tank, thus he evades, if he won't evade he would receive damage as simple as that. BM can tank it with no damage. No one of your "injured Mingo, Cracker & Katakuri" can take G4 hit and remain unharmed - BM can, end of story.

    Ugh don't degenerate debate, stand for your words, you calmed that G4 is not strong enough to beat Katakuri(issue), don't pedal away into CoO of Katakuri(not issue).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018 at 6:08 PM
  11. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    Can you quote better? Your post is a mess.

    Just like your argument.
     
  12. Doc Mindstorm Walking In The Air

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    Mine is still way better than not having argument at all, like in your case.
     
  13. King Itachi ^/_\^

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    All of the admirals can defeat Big Mom, but it won't be an easy fight.
     
  14. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    @ Law.

    I'm suggesting that it's unlikely that Pre Time Skip Akainu is far physically superior to the other Admirals. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're all around the same level in that aspect either. Pre Time Skip Akainu seems to be the physically strongest Admiral. Also we have no idea how an ill and battle worn version of Old Whitebeard's character would perform against most exceptionally skilled characters in the series outside of the Admirals.

    That depends on how you define way more skilled in my opinion. I agree that the Admirals are a league superior to Gear 3rd Luffy in overall skills but that doesn't necessarily mean that Gear 3rd Luffy can't at least hold his own against the Admirals. Plus we're discussing physical strength and in that aspect Gear 3rd Luffy so far seems to be > Fujitora. But I agree that Fujitora is > Gear 3rd Luffy in overall skills. :p

    @ Sherlock.

    Gear 4th Luffy is one of the physically strongest characters in the series so far so to easily brush off a Gear 4th technique is amazing. Plus portrayal wise Kaidou is the only character in the series so far whose defensive portrayal is => the defensive portrayal of Big Mam's character. Oda creates plot points for both characters about how it's basically impossible to wound either of them when they're not nerfed. Not even characters like the other Yonkou and Dragon can say that yet.

    Also I doubt that God Enel can casually replicate Zeus' skills. Most of the protagonists were wide eyed seeing that level of technique. Luffy even suggests that it has an insane amount of firepower. I do think that God Enel's techniques are underrated but Big Mam's character has characters such as Luffy and Jinbe in awe of her skills so far.
     
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  15. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    So clashing with G4 Luffy and coming out unscathed is considered an impressive feat for a top tier nowadays? And Big Mom didn't tank a hit from G4 Luffy, she countered the hit with one of her own. You would be equally honest by claiming that Luffy tanked a hit from BM as the other way around.
     
  16. Mei El Hermano

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    Big mom extreme diff
     
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  17. Akitō Hokage

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    Perhaps I'm misremembering the fight, but were there really that many panels of Fujitora and Luffy 'clashing'? Enough to indicate the kind of equality in physical strength that you're suggesting? If you're referencing the panels that I think you are referencing, could an argument not also be made that Fujitora was caught off guard at Luffy's recklessness, hence his seeming weakness?

    Also, it makes sense IMO that Akainu would be significantly physically stronger than Fujitora considering their fighting styles, so I don't think that the assumption that all Admirals have around the same physical strength is necessarily accurate.
     
  18. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    @ Dunno.

    Gear 4th Luffy is one of the physically strongest characters that we've seen so far, so yeah brushing a technique off without much of a problem is amazing for any character in the series.

    @ Akito.

    Fujitora acknowledged Luffy being in the area before Luffy used that technique so it seems unlikely that Fujitora was simply caught off guard with that technique. Luffy vs. Fujitora is around 17 panels if I remember correctly. If Fujitora were far physically superior to Gear 3rd Luffy wouldn't we know that from their match up? As for Akainu, maybe, but several times physically superior to the other Admirals?
     
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  19. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    How is G4 Luffy one of the physically strongest characters that we've seen so far? Mihawk's slash at MF was more destructive than KKG, and that was performed casually and at a much longer distance. Garp's cannonball throwing also dwarfs Luffy's accomplishments. So clashing with G4 Luffy and coming out unscathed is even less impressive than clashing with a casual attack from Garp or Mihawk and doing the same. Something that might be considered impressive for weaker characters, but is both expected and required for a top tier.
    If Big Mom had actually tanked the attack with her face, it would have been impressive, but for a Yonkou to clash with Luffy without taking damage is not even remotely close to impressive, and it's not even a KKG.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 1:37 PM
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  20. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    There are no relative comparisons between Mihawk's slash and any of Luffy's Gear 4th techniques so what makes you say that? Haven't Garp's cannon balls only hindered and/or destroyed ships? Not that it's not impressive but Gear 3rd Luffy can destroy an Island sized ship and Gear 4th Luffy is several times physically superior to Gear 3rd Luffy.

    To answer your question, Gear 3rd Luffy is one of the physically stronger characters in the series even overpowering Fujitora. Gear 4th Luffy is several times physically superior to Gear 3rd Luffy. Being significantly physically superior to Fujitora should make a character one of the physically strongest characters in the series, no? And it's not the tanking that makes it an impressive feat. It's the implication that Big Mam's character is far physically superior to Gear 4th Luffy. :p
     
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  21. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    A G3 Luffy attack was completely outclassed by Katakuri, who won the clash rather easily. If you say G3 Luffy is physically stronger than Fuji, than you’re also stating Katakuri is several times physically stronger than Fujitora?

    How is someone who is several times physically stronger than an admiral not putting down base luffy after hours of fighting him one on one where he is landing the vast majority of hits? Akainu casually deflected a WB quake in close range combat, an attack that would obliterate G3 Luffy. The other admirals should at the very least be able to replicate this feat, probably with more degree of difficulty.

    And if G3 Luffy is physically stronger than Fuji, that would mean G4 would completely outclass Fujitora. A G4 hit would completely rag doll Fujitora, and a few KG would probably beat him. That doesn’t sound right either.

    The easiest explanation is that Fujitora is not weaker than G3 Luffy. He was simply pushed back, a lot like what Zoro did to him. He didn’t show the slightest bit of concern/struggle at all. If he really felt threatened, surely he would’ve used his DF, which has been shown capable of ripping a meteor from space and repelling said meteor.
     
  22. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Outclassed maybe but that doesn't translate to several times of a difference between them. It could be a difference of 1.5, 2, 2.5, etc.. The argument doesn't require Lord Katakuri to be several times physically superior to Fujitora. Furthermore physical strength is only one aspect. Lord Katakuri being physically superior to Fujitora =/= being able to win that match up with less than around high difficulty.

    Luffy's stamina and durability doesn't necessarily change from one form to another. It's not like an Admiral with their Devil Fruit has superior stamina and durability to Devil Fruitless versions of themselves. If anything Luffy expends more energy in more skilled forms. The idea that an ill and battle worn version of Old Whitebeard's character would one shot Luffy is speculative. Furthermore you talk about how Lord Katakuri hasn't incapacitated Luffy yet. A significantly battle worn Pre Time Skip Luffy has withstood techniques from Kizaru. It doesn't necessarily mean that Kizaru has lackluster offense. It means that Luffy's defense is amazing. Which also makes your point that the Admirals would one shot or borderline one shot Post Time Skip Luffy more unlikely. If the Admirals didn't even do that to Pre Time Skip Luffy there's no reason to assume that it would be that easy to do that to Post Time Skip Luffy.

    I would argue that Gear 4th Luffy does outclass Fujitora specifically in physical strength. But again that doesn't translate to outclassing Fujitora in overall skills. Coming into The Totland Arc I would still give Fujitora an edge against Luffy overall. Even with Gear 4th Luffy outclassing Fujitora in physical strength.

    Luffy overpowering Fujitora might be true but the technique didn't do anything significant against his character.
     
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  23. Erkan12 Ultra Instinct

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    Akainu isn't beating a Yonko in a one-on-one and a fair battle.
     
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