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Sandaime Raikage vs Tobirama

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Reddan, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Turrin

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    I’m avoiding the debate because I don’t see it going anywhere. Your stressing the Data-book but only picking and choosing what it applies to without any real explanation. If you don’t think the Data-book isn’t a hyperbola then it is saying Minato is the fastest Period which includes the Ootsutsuki

    I’m not going to bother discussing something with someone who is going to pick and choose what statements apply to, to suite their agenda. So ether drop the Data-book statement or I’m done with this conversation
     
  2. Turrin

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    Your But hurt is like Mid Kage level now; Kakashi must be going to town lol
     
  3. Reddan

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    You are just embarrassing yourself now and I will take it as an admission you have no argument.

    I have never picked or chosen what statements to take. The databook translation I have is not great and just says Minato was PRAISED as the greatest in god-like speed. I never took this literally, but said it is an indication of how fast he is. The fact that it even says he was praised, means it's not a definitive statement, only shinobi felt he was fast.

    I am calling him the fastest ninja outside the Otsutsuki, because of manga statements and feats. Tobirama was stated to be the fastest shinobi of his time, but Minato was said to be faster. Tobirama was faster than Madara and Hashirama.



    Minato is faster than Ay.


    I don't know where you are getting this none sense my opinion is based on a hyperbole line from the databook. It's based on the manga, where Minato is the fastest shinobi, until he is surpassed by KCM Naruto.
     
  4. sabre320

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    I find it absolutely hilarious that people will go to any length to deny sandaime the win in a fair setting.

    So tobirama gets enough prep to setup sacrifices talisman formulas etc for edotensei but sandaime dosent even get the prep to prepare a couple of sealing tags to counter edos which every fodder had in the war .....I mean comeon peoples only argument here is because sandaime dosent have sealing jutsu so he loses eventually ....not like dude has a sealing pot that can seal the hachibi
     
  5. Turrin

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    Minato was never said to be faster then Tobirama in reaction speed. And if your opinion isn’t based on the Data-book don’t bring it up
     
  6. Turrin

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    Yeah it’s crazy that people give Tobirama access to his own techniques and don’t give Sandaime access to a fanfic Ninjutsu to create sealing talisman he never displayed lol.
     
  7. Reddan

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    You keep dodging the the request for proof.

    I said the databook was not pointless and useful in showing Minato was renowned for speed.

    I never said Minato had better reactions than Tobirama. You keep making that up to avoid the elephant in the room. I said Minato is faster than Tobirama, has a better Hiraishin and a better Hiraishin barrier. So if Minato, who is faster did not blitz then Tobirama sure isn't too.

    Ay had better reactions than Minato too, but it didn't work out too well for him.

    Durability and distance easily compensate for speed and reactions, though Sandaime Raikage probably has reflexes on par with Tobirama anyway, similar levels speed, far greater durability, far greater stamina and far greater offense. and is portrayed better. Tobirama on the other is probably more intelligent (Sandaime did not show his intelligence, but hard to see him being better than Tobirama) and more versatility.
     
  8. Turrin

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    You keep saying Minato is faster then Tobirama and I’ve asked you for proof that he’s faster in reactions, multiple times. If you don’t think he’s faster then reactions then Tobirama; then your assertion that Tobirama can’t blitz someone Minato can’t is bullshit, becuase he has better physical reaction speed and can use that to react and counter the enemy or time his FTG blitz better, which is exactly what we saw in the war when Tobirama performed better then not Base Minato, but KCM Minato.

    And Tobirama reactions are far higher then Ei3 and Base Minato; not even in the same universe, as Tobirama was reacting to a Juubi Jin attacks that KCM Minato and KCM Naruto couldn’t even see both of which have reactions far above the other 2.
     
  9. sabre320

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    Are you fkn serious right now he had access to amber sealing pot in canon ,when he had time to prep....an insanely powerfull sealing option ....yeah clearly its crazy..to think if given equivilant prep to setting up edo the raikage wont even get sealing tags or amber pot..against edos
     
  10. Orochimaruwantsyourbody

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    Tobirama low diffs him with Gojo Kibaku.
     
  11. Hussain

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    fodder ET are not catching the Raikage nor are they going to be able to immobilize him
    for that jutsu to work lol
     
  12. Turrin

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    I wasn’t talking about Amber Jar, I was talking about these fanfiction sealing Tags, you assume he’d be able to create without showing any ability to do so whatsoever.

    As for the Jar He doesn’t have It because the OP restricted it. But even if he did; the Jar works by the enemy responding to the users call; you know what mindless Edos are not going to do?

    Stop being salty AF and just realize Tobirama wins or at worse draws with Edo Tensei
     
  13. Orochimaruwantsyourbody

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    What do you think about Tobirama’s spirit transfer technique, his Wind style, or using FTG/clones to catch AAA off guard?
     
  14. sabre320

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    I'm not even close to being salty as you are simply being absolutely biased.....freaking fodders had sealing tags prepared when given prep against edos in the war arc...a3 with his resources won't be able to procure the same sealing tags when given equivalent prep to edo[far higher] is plain ridiculous.
     
  15. Turrin

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    I’m being biased because I’m not allowing Ei3 to have help from outside resources to make Sealing Tags and ability he never showed before, while accounting for an ability that Tobirama was famous for inventing and can use himself; F off man

    And your right your not salty, your thirsty for Minato D and therefore to please your man properly you feel you need to hate on Tobirama.
     
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  16. Turrin

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    If Tobirama can use Dan’s Technique he is legit broken AF and would beat Ei3 easily, but I don’t think we have enough info to assume for certain he can use this Jutsu.

    Tobirama has nowhere near the feats or hype to suggest he has a Wind Style on par with FRS, which wasn’t enough to beat Ei3, so I don’t see that working ether. Likewise catching Ei3 off guard isn’t going to do much ether as Tobirama lacks the offensive might to beat him.

    There are really only 2 conclusions to the match we can come to; ether successive Tandem Explosions damage Ei3 enough to kill him; or Ei3 fights the Tensei for days, until he dies from exhaustion (or shows an opening Tobirama can then exploit with Tandem or other attacks). As I said worse case scenario Ei3 somehow manages to kill Tobirama before he’s exhausted (this would of course depend heavily on the battlefield, scope of it, etc...) and its a draw with the Tensei eventually killing him. Which I think makes sense Ei3 is a High-Kage, so pushing Tobirama whose the next tier above that to High Diff or a Draw when he’s a solid foil to him makes sense.
     
  17. t0xeus

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    So you have Tobirama as a demi god?
     
  18. Hussain

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    in fairness, Turrin is correct.

    Fodders having x & y have nothing to do with stronger characters not having that.
    Hashirama, for example, couldn't seal Asspulldara and he waited for someone to come and seal him

    he didn't say "I am Hashirama fucking senju! the god of Shinobi! how can I NOT have a sealing jutsu while Suna fodders have!!!!" :oldshrug
     
  19. Turrin

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    Basically the Tier above Minato, Onoki, Mu, Ei3, Gengetsu, Pain, Teen Obito
     
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  20. sabre320

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    Dude the sandaime raikage was the leader of the freaking village and had resources far greater then a fodder at his disposal...if he has equivilant prep time to preparing freaking edo tensei he will procure some basic sealing tags...its not like he was introduced holding a freaking rikudo sealing treasure at introduction...is it really hard to conceptualize him getting a couple of sealing tags against a edo tensei user:oldshrug
     
  21. sabre320

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    And there it is the maturity of a child spouting pathetic dick jokes...where did minato come into this discussion, did I ever mention him in this thread, kinda projecting there bud. Dude who places tobirama above freaking bm naruto and attempts to hype kin and gin to top tier levels just to dance around the fact they smashed tobirama has the freaking gall to call someone else out for being biased ur a pale shadow of what u were dude:ntban. I tried to be respectful to u for being a veteran but ur a freaking sad sight nowadays with your debating.
     
  22. Turrin

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    You didn’t have to mention him I know where the deep hurt in your but stems from.

    I place Tobirama and BM Naruto on the same “level”.

    The author Hypes Gin and Kin to beyond Gokage level, so you can go complain to Kishimoto about it.

    And your debating was always a sad sight, glad your keeping it consistent, giving characters fan fiction moves they never showed and then complaining about other people’s bias lol....
     
  23. Hussain

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    and Hashirama wasn't the leader of Konoha? His wife is a sealing master, and yet he didn't have any... :oldshrug


    but you are correct about Hago's tool, he should be allowed to use it.
    Or Tobirama shouldn't be given ET without meeting its requirement either...
     
  24. Reddan

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    I just provided you the quote with Tobirama admitting that Minato has a faster shunshin. Shunsin is speed. Shunshin speed is required to blitz from a certain distance.

    Reaction speed is required to outclass a fighter from close range. 3 Tome is the perfect example of this.



    This is a blitz.

    This is having better reactions and countering your opponent.




    Tobirama by statements and his fights, cannot do the first to any top shinobi and I will proof he cannot do the latter.

    As for reactions provide proof that Tobirama has faster reactions than Minato.
    Even with HIraishin he does worst in close combat against Madara than Sasuke. As shown before Sasuke had slower reactions than a weak Edo version of Itachi.
    He does nothing against Jubito, which Naruto does not do.
    Tobirama does the teleporting, but it is SM Naruto, who has to react and smash Jubito with the rasengan, before Jubito can react. This is a better feat than anything Tobirama did. He actually managed to land a powerful attack, without being countered. To touch Obito, Tobirama had to get his body caved in. SM Naruto attacked and was not touched.


    Old Hiruzen was able to dodge Obito partially.


    As I said KCM Naruto was able to reach out and grab Minato before the attack.


    MInato teleported and finished Rinnegan Obito off quickly.


    The truth is Obito tagging Jubito is actually a POOR feat relative to KCM Naruto. Jubito used the same attack on the kages as he did on Naruto and Sasuke. It was the same grab the heads and fire the black orbs at their heads.


    Tobirama managed to touch him, but KCM Naruto showed far better reaction and fighting speed by managing to reach out and touch Minato.

    So please provide me these examples of Tobirama doing anything better than SM or KCM Naruto or even EMS Sasuke.

    They actually have better reaction feats than him throughout. As I said Tobirama is INCREDIBLY smart and has excellent timing of jutsu. Let's stop overrating him.

    KCM Naruto was also able to reach out and grab Minato, before Jubito could finish them off.
     
  25. Reddan

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    I chose not to give it Sandaime Raikage, because I did not want him to use it directly against Tobirama. However, Sandaime was a master of lightning. All he needs is lightning and a sword to restrain the Edo. Most ninjas carry ropes and kunai as standard equipment.


    We know this works on even Edo's.


    Now the rope won't work, but with raiton paralysing it will hold them in place. If Sandaime Raikage defeats Tobirama it will be easy enough for him to achieve this against fodder Edo's.
     
  26. Hussain

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    I don't think it works that way, Suigetsu is specifically weak to lightning because
    of the way his body works, which is not the same like ET.

    Deidara's body was tied up with that rope (or whatever it is). lightning was used to counter his explosion jutsu.
    Same goes for Sasori more or less.

    However, simply cutting them down won't seal the ET because they will just regenerate. The Raikage will have to use something
    that suppress their movement completely, or at least limit it as much as possible...

    Tobirama's defeat is really the most important thing here. Dealing with the fodders afterword is not an issue, nor does it
    change someone's defeat even if they couldn't deal with ET afterword... :catshrug

    it's not like it's helping Tobirama that his opponent "might" die eventually alongside him at the end of the day... :hm
     
  27. Turrin

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    Shunshin is not reaction speed; I’m not going to even address any of your other points until you drop that one
     
  28. Reddan

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    Lightning does paralyse everyone. It paralysed Deva Pain.
    It paralysed Yamato.

    If there is a constant charge of lightning running through a blade it seems to keep people paralysed.

    Darui and Omoi can keep up the charge of the blade even when they leave and go elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandaime can do the same thing and that would hold an Edo in place.
    Yes and the lightning did paralyse him.
    I agree fodder level edo aren't really going to do anything. It is not hard for kages to trap fodder ninjas. Tobirama's skill with Edo was using the exploding tag trick and gathering information.
     
  29. Turrin

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    Then they explode with Tandem and escape or Tobirama teleports then free; also show me one scan of Ei3 having a sword or Kunais... I’ll wait
     
  30. Reddan

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    Stop avoiding the question. I never said shunshin was reaction speed. I said it's what is the speed needed to blitz an opponent. I gave you some actual examples of opponents being blitzed due to shunshin.

    Reaction speed is the speed you can fight in close quarters at and counter attacks. I provided lots of panels showing Tobirama is below KCM Naruto, Sasuke and SM Naruto in reactions. They all have better reaction fighing speed than he did, even against Jubito.

    What Tobirama has over Minato, is he was better at picking the right moment to attack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 2:34 PM
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