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Sasori...immune to Genjutsu and Jyuuken?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Tsukiyomi, Nov 13, 2005.

  1. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    I was thinking about it, Genjutsu works by controlling the flow of chakra through your opponents head to control what their senses experience.

    Well, Sasori doesn't have a conventional body, in fact all that is left of his original body is a core in his chest which probably contains either his heart or something designed to hold his spirit.

    This could mean he is totally immune to all forms of genjutus, which could be one reason he wasn't afraid of Itachi at all, Itachi's speciality would be totally ineffective against him. Also since his eyes aren't real, Tsukiyomi can't touch him. He is Itachi's worst matchup, someone immune to Genjutsu and with no muscles for the Sharingan to predict the movements of.

    This also means he not have a conventional chakra system, this could possibly make him immune to Jyuuken since he has no organs or system to attack.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
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  2. ShadelessNyght Never Knows Best

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    Hmm, after thinking about that for a moment, I would have to say that Sasori should be immune to both Genjutsu and Jyuuken. The body he is in is basically hollow, and the only chakra being given out is being supplied through his core which everyone knows. Granted, since that part of him being the only living part is putting chakra through the basically doll, it could be seen that the Jyuuken if anything could sever the chakra that is coming from out of his living core and basically fully turn it into just a puppet. The byakugen may be able to see that the log is alive, giving them an advantage way ahead into the fight.

    Genjutsu, however, I doubt would work. Genjutsu works off the five senses, and as Sasori said he feels no emotion. I would take that as No Emotion = No real Senses that isn't a direct shot to the core.

    These are my thoughts on it anyway.
     
  3. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    Yeah- he's dead so this isn't an important discussion :xp. But to humor you, I don't think Sasori would have been entirely immune for a few reasons:

    1) Since he has no senses to be fooled, his mind should be even more vulnerable as any Genjutsu user would be able to simply create a visual illusion.

    2) If Sasori has no eyes... how the hell does he see? My contention would be that his puppet eyes are, for all intents and purposes, like real eyes, and therefore susceptible to attacks that need eye contact.

    3) Jyuuken might still work as the appendages of the human puppet are still controlled by chakra. My guess would be that if you pumped a load of chakra into the human core of the puppet, it would go *poof*. So yeah, the tenketsu sealing would be outta the question but the Hyuuga style taijutsu should still work.

    But again, he's dead so no worries :p
     
  4. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    Sasori transfer's chakra from his core to the rest of his body and to other bodies through chakra strings on his fingers. He has to have some sorta chakra circulatory system to do that. From all we know, Sasori can see and hear, he has senses (while not all of what a normal person has I supose) I dont see why they cant be controled through manipulation of this chakra circulatory system. Well never know for sure probably, but I would assume he could be effected by Genjutsu.

    However, Jyuuken would probably only work if you hit his core since its his only organ and Jyuuken works by attacking internal organs.
     
  5. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    Considering someone like Kankuro could eventually do like Chiyo and replace parts of his body with puppet parts this could still be relevant.

    How would the genjutsu effect him? ALL genjutsu function on the principal of controlling the flow of energy through the specific pathways of the brain, in Sasori's body not only do these pathways not exist, but its possible chakra doesn't flow through that body unless he wills it to, he could just shut it off entirely (if the opponent has any control at all).

    Its either a plothole or he has created some kind of sensory device on the puppet, the latter is a far more interesting explanation to me and given the magical nature of ninjas in Naruto its entirely possible

    Eyes are directly linked to the brain, hence why the strongest Genjutsu (Tsukiyomi) requires direct eye contact, its the only way such an extreme degree of control can be obtained, his eyes obviously do not connect this way, and once again its possible he could just shut the eyes off thus rendering eye contact jutsu useless.

    Considering aside from the core there is no system to attack, the puppet user could just use the appendages to block the core, I can't see how Jyuuken can effect the appendages apart from the core.

    Not true, Kakuro's puppets have no circulatory system, they are simply pulled by chakra attaching itself with the same principles used to walk up trees and walls.
     
  6. kbizzle New Member

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    Very interesting. Haven't thought about it like that before.
     
  7. RAGING BONER Sexual Tyrannosaurus

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    Sasori DOES have eyes...remeber when he transfers from puppets the eyesockets are empty.

    i'm betting that the "butt plug" form of Sasori is his heart, brain an entire nervous system all mashed up into a little stump. sick fuck.

    I'd wager both Jyuuken AND genjutsu would work on him...but only of the highest order.
     
  8. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    Yeah, I briefly considered that in the back of my head, but Kankuro isn't liable to do that any time soon.


    Chakra always flows in the human part of living puppets. If it stopped, the human part would die. I agree that since the puppet parts are dead, that wouldn't matter too much, but it would make the puppet immobile which in battle is generally a bad thing to be.

    Yeah, I'm guessing Kishimoto didn't give this as much thought as we are now:laugh

    Just like any ninja could close his/her eyes... again, that is generally not something you want to do in battle. If Sasori did shut off his eyes, he would be completely blind now wouldn't he? Add to the fact that he has limited senses, if any, and that is a set up for a major ass whupin.

    I never said they would affect appendages. I said it wasn't entirely worthless because it would still be possible to directly attack the core, likely killing the puppet.

    I was under the impression that we were talking about human puppets, which have internal chakra. Normal puppets are, as you note, without circulatory systems as they are as dead as kunais. In Sasori's case, there must be some method of moving his arms and legs. If that doesn't involve chakra then I'll be damned if I know what it is.

    This is all elementary anyways :laugh
     
  9. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    We arnt talking about Kankuro's puppets, Sasori's body is different. Chiyo says "No matter how many puppet bodies you have, if you intend to use Chakra, part of you must still be flesh" which to me means his chakra is generated in his flesh core. How does this chakra get to Sasori's hands to make chakra strings for his various puppets? How does he transfor chakra from his fleshy chest core to the rest of his body to preform jutsu and his various puppets to move? Its logical to assume he has to have some sort of chakra circulatory system in his bodies.
     
  10. icoselitham Lost

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    Jyuuken should be able to cut the chakra strings. Sharingan wouldn't be needed to defeat him though, just a bottle of termites.
     
  11. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    Sasori does have real eyes. His head seemed to be the last real thing on his body. When Chiyo and Sakura saw him they commented on how young he looked but they still didn't know he was a puppet, plus he has a line just below his neck which I think is the place his real head stops and the wood starts. He even stated that he could not become a whole puppet and described himself as an "incomplete doll". Sasori was a puppet but he still had some human body parts.

    I think he could still be affected by some forms of genjutsu, although it wouldn't do any good because he has no real body and feels no pain. Unless you know exactly where his heart contaner is, attacking him would be worthless. Thats probaly why he didnt fear Itachi, that and the fact that he had no emotions/feelings
     
  12. Chiru Naruto Forums Elitist

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    Jyuuken to his only human flesh piece and he's dead. Otherwise, it would have 0 effect. I also doubt genjutsu would do anything to someone without a brain or any of the five senses. Except he can hear... Hmm... So I suppose that Tayuya's genjutsu would have worked on him. :amuse
     
  13. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    No, the whole body aside from the part in his chest was puppet, think about it, when he jumped bodies the head stayed on the puppet and one that looked just like it was waiting for him on the next puppet. He just fashioned it to look like his old head.

    Its true the part in his body must still be flesh, but he doesn't have the pathways genjutsu controls, all genjutsu are based upon the principal flows of chakra through the head, he doesn't have that type of chakra flow, nor does he have those pathways anymore.

    How does he transfer chakra? Why does he need to transfer it, and why does he need a chakra circulatory system? Its the same as the chakra strings Kankuro and Chiyo use, remember when he was controlling the 300 puppets? There were 300 strings flying out of his center, the same thing would apply, and just like with any other puppet, he could shut off that flow if he wanted to.

    His human puppets have circulatory systems because they need to use jutsu, Sasori doesn't use jutsu, only his puppets do.
     
  14. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    You have brought something new to my attention, so I want to make sure I am getting this right. To truly learn something new you must fully understand it, so I want to make sure I understand you.

    What you are saying is basically, only the heart container transfered puppets, and it transfered to a puppet that had the same head on it as Sasoris orginal puppet body?
     
  15. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    Yes. remember that the puppet stuck to the wall still had everything (including the head) except for the center chest piece, that was the only thing that is real on him, hence why the only way to kill him is to destroy it.

    Most of the puppets looked like they were wearing some kind of mask so my guess is that they all look like him and he is able to reveal the face when he takes it over.
     
  16. TheoDerek Rise Against

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    I don't think Sasori is immune to gen and jyuuken. Sound genjutsus (like the ones Kin used only of a much much higher lvl) would be especially effective aginst Sasori. As for the jyuuken, Sasori would most likely have to be out of Hiroku for Jyuuken to affect him. But if he was out and a Hyuuga could get close enough to him he would be finished. But maybe Hakke Kuushou could get him pretty good, i don't know.
     
  17. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    Why would it be "especially effective against Sasori"?

    All genjutsu regardless of the method of delivery (unless we are told otherwise) function on the principal of controlling chakra flow through the chakra circulatory system in your opponents head, stopping or slowing this flow is the way to fight genjutsu, Sasori doesn't have this flow at all, why would Genjutsu effect him then?
     
  18. geminis Active Member

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    ONE shot from a sniper rifle to his "core" and he will bleed to death.

    Ok seriously, I think jyuuken will work well against sasori (if the user can get that close) and genjutsu should definitely work since Sasori is basically just a log full of chakra which should be an easy target if uncovered. Genjutsu controls chakra so why would Sasori not be influence by genjutsu? I'm sure that only top tier genjutsu specialists can affect Sasori with a genjutsu but Sasori wouldn't be stupid enough to put himself in a stituation where he can get caught by genjutsu.
     
  19. Azrael Bitch, Get Serious

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    I completely agree with you Tsukiyomi.
     
  20. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    I see. Lean something new everyday. Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
     
  21. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Considering he has no real body parts besides that cylinder...I would say genjutsu would not work, no brain for it to fool after all.

    Jyuuken would not work on any part of his body besides the organic cylinder I think, if he took a jyuuken hit there I don't see why it wouldn't effect him.

    But yes, Sasori would be a terrible matchup for Itachi.
     
  22. dhJackBurton It's NERV or nuth'n!

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    I don't think Jyuken would have any perminant effect on Sasori. It can be used to cut the chakra strings attaching Sasori to his puppet (other puppets or his appendages) but these strings can be reattached almost instaniously.

    The problem with Jyuken is that it controls chakra flow through a persons inner coil system. Sasori's chakra flow, I assume, ammounts to chakra strings attached to his core. If that is the case, then he would control his own limbs by ataching linear strings from his core to his appendages. It would work like a cable-pully system. Even if these strings are severed (stopping chakra "flow") Sasori can simply reattach the strings virtually instantaneously.

    Theoretically, the chakra strings attaching Sasori's core to his appendages do not even have to travel through the appendages.
     
  23. TDM Toast

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    Genjutsu? No. Jyuuken? Definitely.
     
  24. shibigoku Master of the fist

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    Of course he's immune to genjutsu and jyuuken. Isn't it obvious. I wonder if he's immune to Ino's body control jutsu and Shika's shadow control jutsu.
     
  25. warcraft E-Married to Chibi_Sasuke2k5

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    well it doesn't matter now cause he is dead
     
  26. shibigoku Master of the fist

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    Whoa! that is so true, why should we care about sasori's immunities since he's dead?
     
  27. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    I already mentioned this and we continued the discussion for the sake of theoretically defining Narutoverse. I don't really see why you would remention this without contributing anything...

    On the note of Sasori's brain/susceptibility to genjutsu: I think it is ridiculous to assume he doesn't have a brain. If he doesn't, how the hell did he think? Narutoverse has thus far held all of the physical properties of the human body to be true (before adding its own fictional bits to it). I see no evidence to suggest that the soul is what gives Sasori a presence of mind instead of a brain: he's not the tin-man afterall.
     
  28. warcraft E-Married to Chibi_Sasuke2k5

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    well i'm sorry but i only read the 1st post and then posted it.
     
  29. TheoDerek Rise Against

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    I didn't mean that it would be especially effective aginst JUST Sasori, only that it would be more affective in general because it has such a good "method of delivery" as you put it. IMO its probably easier to execute a sound based gen than any other that we have seen.

    And the fact that Sasori has chakra is enough to prove that he has a chakra circulatory system. And he obviously has nerves going to his head or he wouldn't beable to see or hear. So I don't see why a gen wouldn't work on him.
     
  30. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    The fact that he has chakra proves that? Neji was able to send his chakra flowing through Kidomaru's web, chakra doesn't need to be in a chakra circulatory system to be in motion.

    As for not being able to see or hear, unless he has eyes, ears, a nose, a tongue and skin inside that little thing in his chest in addition to whatever is holding his consciousness, seems a bit much for such a small container.

    He even admitted the body couldn't feel anything so he obviously gave up certain sensory abilities. Considering he knows human bodies well enough to preserve abilities after death its not so far fetched for him to change the way his body perceives its environment.

    Nothing about his chakra flow matches that of a normal body, so genjutsu which relies on that flow shouldn't be effective at all.
     
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