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Sasuke - Why even as a Naruto Fanboy I have no problems with him

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by G. Hawke, Dec 3, 2005.

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  1. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Considering that i did a Sakura thread and it came off reasonably well i thought i will cover the rest of Team 7.
    Todays subject?
    Uchiha Sasuke.

    Considering that he hasn't even been around for awhile i find it strange people still decide to bash the poor kid. Come on people, we could at least let him turn up before passing judgement on how he turned out

    And just like the sakura thread i would like to make something clear. I am not a Sasuke fan, i do not even actually like him. I am ok with with him and i respect both the dynamics he brings to the rivalry between himself and Naruto and the layers of importance he brings to the story line. Sadly it is just a case of me being unable to relate to him. So yeah, please no "You are a Sasuke-Tard kind of crap, because, well, i ain't.

    Let us put into perspective the issue that people may have with Sasuke:
    1) He's weak
    2) He's just following Itachi's footsteps
    3) He's trash because he's a traitor
    4) He's comparable to Orochimaru
    5) He's gay because he's only interested in guys' strength, and that he's not going for the girls
    *new point*
    6) The sharigan is cheap, and with CS he is even more cheap.


    There were a couple more which Sho was nice enough to help me out with but i think these 5 are good enough.

    1) He's weak
    -Emotionally, yes maybe he is. If someone was to argue that he is weak because he lacks the fortitude to put the past behind they may just have a point. But this is my problem, how many people are actually strong enough to put the past behind them. Sure some may note that Kakashi and Naruto were strong enough to leave the past behind and forge forward, but i could counter with literally the entire Sanin, who are/were bounded by their past. Are they weak? No they are merely human. Sasuke's mind is the product of a vicious event. His entire family destroyed. Worse yet, but the most important person in his life. And he blames himself, for being able to nothing in the face of such power. Because he was weak, because in the eyes of his brother he wasn't even worth killing. But by living his brother gave him purpose, a will to survive. the will to avenge his family. Nothing good may come of this vengeance you may say and maybe you are right, but would you do if you truly believed you had nothing else to hold unto? Is he weak? Maybe he is, but i ask you this. Could you have been any stronger?

    2) He's just following Itachi's footsteps
    -Was he? Yes indeed. Sasuke's entire life has been driven by the hatred of his brother. Every action, every idea nothing more than a grisly and craven homage to his hated brother. Sasuke was without a doubt becoming his brother. But that has changed, clearly defined by his action after the battle with Naruto at the Valley of The End (or whatever it was called). Now you may say that he hasn't really changed considering he still went to Oro, that he still wants to kill Itachi. But herein lies the difference. While before he was driven only by the words of his brother, by the hatred instill within him now instead he driven only by his own will. Sasuke decides his own fate. Yes, he still wants revenge, but on his own terms now. And that is why he will probably never attempt to kill Naruto again to gain MS. He doesn't need it anymore, because in the end it was nothing more than his brother to control his fate again. And Sasuke has broken that control.

    3) He's trash because he's a traitor
    -Did Sasuke betray Konoha? Yes.
    Is he a traitor? Yes.
    But is he trash? Here is where it gets clouded.
    This point i will keep simple because most of it refers back to point one. Nothing justifies a traitor, and i am not going to start. But we all know why he did it. And more importantly Naruto and crew understand why he did it. And suprise, suprise they will forgive him. And he will also most likely be accepted into the fold. Why? Because they know that in the end he did not want to betray anyone. He was driven by the failure that he perceives himself to be. His failure in matching Itachi. Oro offered him the chance and he took. His actions were not that of a traitorous bastard but rather that of a person lost. He knew he was doing the wrong thing but he did not care, because he believed he truly had nothing left. Like i said, he is human and it is merely human to make mistakes.

    4) He's comparable to Orochimaru
    -This one i admit makes no bloody sense to me. Sasuke evil? When the hell did that happen? Oro is probably the eptomine of evil in the series, a person truly of no morals and conscience. He betrayed friends, comrades, village and not only that he also seeks to destroy his village. And of course he is responsible for the death of the 3rd. The man lacks a heart. Sasuke? Sasuke did indeed betray people, but at the same time you know that he does deeply care for all of them. Naruto he views as his best friend and brother, Sakura is important to him. The thanks he gave proves this. the boy makes a mistake and suddenly he is evil? Man, some people don't know the meaning of evil.

    5) He's gay because he's only interested in guys' strength, and that he's not going for the girls
    -This one i will keep simple.
    He is not gay for the love of god!
    He was 13! 13 when he had girls chasing after him. I don't remember when the hell being uninterested in the opposite sex at 13 makes you gay. It would seem that people would only acknowledge his sexuality if he started bedding girls when he is freaking 13. Hell, he is still a mere child. Please tell when it became in vouge to screw when you are 13 to prove your macho ness. I didn't get the bloody memo.
    Oh hell, so people are just weird.

    *New point*
    6) The sharigan is cheap, and with CS he is even more cheap.

    -Firstly the sharigan is a freaking bloodline. The boy is born with it, hell every Uchiha is born with the potential to unlock it. And hell bloodlines are normal in Naurtoverse. Since when were they ever considered cheap? Did you see anyone saying within the context of the manga that Sasuke is cheating because he had sharigan? Did Naruto blame sharigan for being behind Sasuke for most of part 1? Did Lee blame sharigan when Sasuke copied his lotus? No, all they did was acknowledge his ability. People who are directly affected by bloodlines dont seem to mind so why is there continous complaints about it? And CS? yes you may claim that it is somewhat cheap but the fact of the matter is that these are shinobi. Since when did playing fair become part of their motto?

    And just like in my Sakura thread note that in the end these are merely my opinions and truthfully i can't tell people how to think.
    And i doubt that this would change the way that Sasuke bashers act, but hey.
    I can rant about can't i?

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2005
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  2. Last of the Uchihas Get your own girls, Jonas!

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    Sadly, this won't chnage anyone's mind, well at least the ones you want to change.

    Reason, because this is Sasuke, aka the most hated character on NF.

    I agree with most of what you said. :thumbs
     
  3. Chi Technical knockout

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    Ok... I maybe is blind, or somthn.. But i didn't saw Sasuke bashing at all..
    I mean yes, there are some people who say that he is bad/lame and stuff, but there aren't a lot of them.
    If we compare it to Naruto bashing it's just seems so small.. I see whole threads dedicated to bash Naruto..

    I'll be very gratefull if you please give me links on threads with Sasuke bashing, or at least give me some big quotes on the same topic. Not just stupid "Sasuke is lame", but same kind like Naruto gets. Where people try to prove with logic that he's is lame...
     
  4. G. Hawke The one who left

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    I never said there was at this very moment any Sasuke bashing going on. :oh
    I am merely attempting to adress the main grouses people tend to have with Sasuke.
    Nothing more. :oh
     
  5. Kepa spinningkickinyourface-jutsu

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    he's hated because of the various rants and fanboys coming here talking about how undefeatable he is that makes him hated..

    for me, the only character I can't stand seeing in the manga is hinata, but that's my personal oppinion based on what I've read and saw.. but most of the sasuke haters here based their oppinion on the oppinion's of others.

    Hell, if he really were a traitor he would've just executed Naruto.. Instead he told everyone to leave him alone, and yet they still came after him. Sure you might say that's what friends do, but shouldn't friends also understand your problem?? I dunno, but in most parts of the world if your family was massacred by somoene your friends would be the ones holding the criminal down while you kick his ass, and not the ones who do their absolute best to stop your every move... of course, it's a young boys manga

    I think that's the whole problem...bashing without logic :p
    oh and might I ask you... how do you prove someone is lame with facts, while being lame is just a matter of oppinion?
    it's like trying to prove he's cool.... while there's no proper guideline for coolness:oh
     
  6. Gyroscope the flavin and the mavin

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    Great thread. Add it to your blog.
     
  7. Leen Peacemaker

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    I already mention over and over again about Sasuke that I almost dont want to repeat them again since they will be the same again. He is not weak. He is not just following Itachi's footatep, or a thrash, Orochimaru's puppet or gay.

    It's just some extreme anti Sasuke fans that created all these chaos. Everyone is a mere human and not perfect. If we have to pinpoint at every character's weakness and flaws, why dont we take a minute and reflect upon our own weakness and flaws. Perhaps we will see this world with a clearer vision.
     
  8. Last of the Uchihas Get your own girls, Jonas!

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    I actually you just described the Naruto Fanboys.

    Naruto can't lose since he has Kyuubi.


    i pretty much agree with this.


    Once again, people don't understand this, a thing call honor.;amuse

    But i agree with you:thumbs
     
  9. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Hell damm, i didn't think of that. :blink
    Thanks.

    @Everyone :Just note that i did not do this to bash anyone's fandom. So pls dont start anything, ok? :wtf
     
  10. Chi Technical knockout

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    Well.. i just try not to take those posts seriously..

    But really.. I think that it's lame to try show how good your favorite charecter is by trying to compare him with other charecter who's supposedly worse..

    There are 2 different types of fanboys..

    Take "Kyuubi Naruto" for example.. He's a fanboy, but in good meaning of this word. He's trying to prove that Naruto is "good" by providing points about his growth, or his attitude to other charecters. Not by saying "Look. Sasuke is a traitor, and Naruto is not. Love Naruto"..

    Take ~BONER~. He's trying to prove that Sasuke is good, by bashing Naruto and then comparing them both..
    It's like saying "Yeah.. But look, there are person who is worse than Sasuke, so Sasuke isn't "bad".."

    Of course there are people like Copinator, that can be "good", or "bad" from time to time..

    Same goes with Naruto fanboys.. Wel.. With every charecters fanboys..

    I hope you have catched the idea..
     
  11. Gyroscope the flavin and the mavin

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    You should know better than do ask that in a Sasuke thread :amuse
    But yea, since most of the anti-personnell dont post much anymore, it should be safe around here.
     
  12. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Oh well a man can hope innit? :sweat
    Now it only leaves Naruto.
    Heck i will do that tomorrow, too many braincells already used.

    Added to blog.
     
  13. Leen Peacemaker

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    I dont think using names here is a good idea since people here are supporting different people. Using names will only cause these supporters to fill up this thread with bashings and flaming.

    On topic:
    It is not a problem of whether Sasuke is this and that but rather whether this person is a level-headed debatter or just trying to act cool by flaming and bashing. If u dont like what others say and feel like everything is hopeless and yet u still want to bash, ignore list is your best friend. Use it and u will have nothing to regret. :thumbs
     
  14. Mizura Meh

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    ... that's actually a great example! :omg Indeed, the three Legendary Sannin are or were bound by their past. Yet even they (Jiraiya and Tsunade in any case) could be redeemed.

    Now I'd argue that no, if my entire family were massacred, I'd not plan my life around revenge, but then again the modern society is such a darned hard place to take revenge in. Ah well.

    I dislike Sasuke because indeed he wasn't as strong as Naruto or Kakashi who managed to move on. Actually I disliked him because he was a sour loser. I know it's Understandable, I just don't like it.

    But as to the issue of whether Sasuke has completely lost it or not or is lost to all hope, again, I trust the manga characters more: both Naruto and Sakura still trust and believe in Sasuke, despite Naruto being the one on the receiving end of Sasuke's attacks. By sparing Naruto, Sasuke showed that he can still be redeemed, and it's this hope I think that Naruto and Sakura cling to. If even they think that Sasuke is not a lost cause, I have no reason to write him off myself.

    Anyway, the complaint about him being evil is completely stupid. =\ The complaint about him being Physically weak is stupid as well. As for being gay, I actually think that Kishimoto intentionally cattered to the yaoi fangirls by leaving hints that can be interpreted in certain ways (like the fact that Kishimoto made Sasuke say in an interview that he still remembers what Naruto tastes like from the kiss, then the possibly dubious scenes right after the Naruto vs Sasuke fight). I personally think that homosexuality is a perfectly valid sexual orientation, nothing wrong with that, though because this is a shounen manga, I doubt Kishimoto actually Really made Sasuke to be gay (just left crumbs to make yaoi fangirls happy >.> )

    Soujiro makes a good point about the different types of fanboys by the way, one that I've noticed myself long ago as well (the hard way :notrust). There are, among others, two categories of fanboys:

    - the first category tries to defend his fandom by pointing to the character's accomplishments alone. He or she tries to make the character look good by well... making him look good.

    - the second category tries to make his fandom look good by making a "rival" fandom look bad. :notrust This has unfortunately been the case of the Sakura vs Hinata fandoms, and it had me really pulling my hair out (well, not literally) and yelling at culprits in both fandoms because I am a fan of both Sakura and Hinata, and GEEZ. Making an opposite fandom look bad does Not make your character look good. I've come across this type of argument way too often: my character > your character who completely sucks. How is > completely sucks supposed to be a compliment? Characters can be compared, but it makes more sense to say character A > character B who is already great than character A > character B who is completely lame. =\
     
  15. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Heh, i am actually suprised that this thread has been clean and civil.
    Anti-Sasuke people use to be so damm rabid, heck i didn't even know they had gone.
    Never thought Sasuke missing from the manga would lessen that situation by so much.

    Yes, Tsunade has indeed been redeemed but i am not too sure about Ero-Senin.
    He still seems to carried the burden of failing to stop Oro from leaving, from failing to stop Oro from falling.
    That has always been my opinion as to why he left Konoha and roamed around a publishing his books. Because Konoha more or less reminds him of his failure.
    So yeah, i think Jiraiya is still shadowed by his past. :oh
     
  16. OmniStrife Finaly, it is here! FWA X!!

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    Sasuke fans and Naruto fans UNITE!
     
  17. Devil King Sanji Blood Flow of Dawn.

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    Yeah. I think that Sasuke doesn't attach himself to girls because...

    A) He's too busy training and trying to surpass his brother. Most of the girls to him probably haven't proved the "strength" to gain his attention, they'd only slow him down.
    B) His brother said he had to kill his best friend, and if Sasuke gets a girlfriend maybe he'd be drivent to kill her.
    C) Isn't interested yet!
     
  18. G. Hawke The one who left

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    There is a bigger chance of an adult Rei Ayanami turning up beside my bed in a french maids uniform. :oh
     
  19. OmniStrife Finaly, it is here! FWA X!!

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    :blink Whoa! Right on!!! :smile-big
     
  20. Cthulhu-versailles The Luckiest Man in Agrabah

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    1. Kakashi is the most hated character on the forum he sucks donkey balls and needs to be killed. (note: maybe I'm the only one who hates him, but he garbage)

    2. Sasuke is comparitevely weak as is naruto when placed against chars like Itachi.

    3.Sasuke is a traitor, stop denying it sasuke fanboys. He went to oro knowing full well, that oro would gain his body. Who will then proceed to crush konaho. And yes he is similar to orochimaru, because he is willing to sacrifice anything and alomst anyone in his quest for power. It doesn't matter if Sasuke'sreason for seeking power are noble, unlike oro. Sasuke is still tossing away everything. Sasuke fanboys, will probably scream this is a noble thing and shows characters. No! It doesn't. It shows obession, and selfishness. Omg naruto is similar in this regard also, but sasuke is more cold in his pursuit. Sasuke basically became how gaara was when he was insane. Except sasuke wasn't hated by everyone, got a peep talk from kakashi, words from sakura, a whole team going after him and pleading from his best friend and ignore it like a pompus jerk.

    4.people who think sasuke gay, are gay themselves and indenial of thier own gayness. Seriously are you so retarded and have such small testicular fortitude that you need to bash a character and call him gay ?

    5. Sasuke is cool because of his character design, his avenger personification, and that he's not a goody two shoes whore.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2005
  21. G. Hawke The one who left

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    When the hell did anyone say he wasn't a traitor? :err
    And except for point 3 you really did nothing but.....rant.

    Point 1 was about emotional strength, what does you Kakashi rant have to do anything with it?
    Point 2 was whether or not sasuke still follow in Itachi's footsteps. What does Itachi's strength have to do with anything?
    Pont 4 and 5 was basicly you just ranting.

    So....huh? :huh
     
  22. Mizura Meh

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    ... still, at this point, I'd like to remind people that "traitor" is first and foremost a technical term that says nothing (much) of a person's character. If a person defects from his country's army to go to an enemy country's army he is labeled a traitor. If during the cold war an American citizen renounces his US citizenship to go to Russia to meet up with the love of his life, he'd also have gotten the "traitor" label.

    Sasuke is "technically" a traitor. Whether his actions are justifiable or understandable or not is what's up to debate. But the first meaning of traitor isn't actually "low-down bastard with no sense of morality who backstabs all his friends and should die a horrible and painful death". =\ People attach too many negative meanings onto the word "traitor" sometimes.
     
  23. Cthulhu-versailles The Luckiest Man in Agrabah

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    -Honestly I didn't read your post, Althor. I just saw sasuke support in the title and then topic sentences bolded and assumed it was unintelligable sasukefandom. Therefore I decided to post on what I think about sasuke.

    Right now, it's to early for me, to attempt to read anything, of even decent length. Therefore, I assumed I've read if before, and that it was blindingly, ridiculous and annoying sasuke is number 1 and everyone else sucks banter.if it was not then, most of my orignal post is irrelvant to the topic.

    Now- why I said what I said in my orignal post is

    1. Kakashi sucks, I wanted to say it... it's releavance is that he sucks.

    2. You had it's bolded sasuke is weak, so I said that he is comparitevly weak, like naruto when compared to stronger characters. Sasuke is not weak when compared to others of his age. Also he is following Itachi footsteps, except his path has been dicated by itachi whereas itachi was due to unknown reasons. Itachi killed his best friend and his clan and believe no one was worthy or something like that. Sasuke left his village thinking none can help me, is allowing for himself to be used knwoing the consequences that will both end his life and put konaho at risk.

    3. point 4 and 5.. DAMN right I was ranting and proud of it. :thumbs
     
  24. G. Hawke The one who left

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    .........................Well not much i can say to that innit? :sweatdrop
     
  25. G. Hawke The one who left

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    *bump*
    Cause i added a new point, note point No.6. :oh

    *yes this is indeed a shameless plug. :sweat*
     
  26. Nara_Shikamaru246 ph34r t3h cute one.

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    Hmmmm....now if only we could get all the Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura fans and all the fans of all the characters from the series together, and create a place where they can all discuss the series... O wait... that's here...
     
  27. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Lol nice post, but you can tell someone is passionate about what they are writing when thier normally good grammar and/or spelling (relatively for a board) goes all to hell - it was like good point, good point, good point, goo- what the. Dang he got all excited or something here.

    Lot of good points though. I liked how you defended Sasuke's actions while still admitting that he was a traitor. Alot of people have trouble with that - that his actions were traitorous and wrong, but at the same time, he is not a bad person at his core.

    You defended his strengths, but still fully acknowledged his faults. Very nice. Like I said, its rare to have somebody who can look at both sides of Sasuke, without bashing him to death with a club despite his good qualities, or gushing on him to the point of idiocy when its obvious hes made serious mistakes.
     
  28. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Fuck, i gotta go fix that. :omg
    *goes off to fix mistakes*
     
  29. BattousaiMS Swordsman of Sorrow

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    Well I will have to agree with you, I personally don't think he should be hated. I mean if you hate him it should be because you don't like his attitide not because of his status. Here is my version:

    1) He's weak
    Not really, he is simply an underachiever because everyone around him has been hyping him too much. He is a great shinobi if you take out that he is supposed to be an Uchiha genius and capable of taking out anyone because he is the last of his dead clan and stuff. This has hindered his progress more thenadvance it. Simply when there is too much pressure to produce you tend to get to much into that goal and fell down.

    2) He's just following Itachi's footsteps
    Well, my answer to this would be "so what?" I mean it was something that Itachi left him to do, so he has to follow it. The only problem is he should learn that what Itachi didn't tell him is do it without seeking any help, which he didn't but for some reason Sasuke thinks Itachi has.

    3) He's trash because he's a traitor
    This part, I would partially agree, he is a traitor, but that doesn't make him a trash. He would be the trash when he kills someone of Konoha in service of Orochimaru. Uptill then that label should be off of him. I guess the word traitor bugs some of his fans, but mainly because they take it the wrong way. It doesn't mean he is evil, or he is a trash, that can only be done if he had killed Naruto or any of the Konoha genin for power. Traitor is simply being a traitor, you can be a traitor for simply leaving/abandonning you village without their consent and that wouldn't make you anymore trash or murderer, which is what he is at present time.

    4) He's comparable to Orochimaru
    Again, depends on his actions of part 2. When Orochimaru left, he did alot of bad things before leaving. Sasuke at the moment is pretty clean. The day he kills someone from Konoha his case can be revaluated. The day he actually acts like Orochimaru (with the snake tongue effect) and fights for the same goals then you can call him Orochimaru's clone.

    5) He's gay because he's only interested in guys' strength, and that he's not going for the girls
    Well again, he is 12-13 and I am sure there still alot of guys out there who are 12-13 and still not interested in girls. Now if he was 15 and still not into it (meaning puberty didn;t start hitting him on that factor) then it's up for debates.

    *new point*
    6) The sharigan is cheap, and with CS he is even more cheap.
    Sharingan on itself isn't cheap, since well it's a bloodline. Sure it is overpowered for it's name but hey it is still a bloodline. Cs on itself isn't cheap either since well do have to nearly risk death to get them . But Sharingan + CS is cheap since well your getting double advantages more then anyone else. That goes the same for any bloodline + CS. However, when all said and done you still can't blame him for getting it.

    So after all this what really remains is his personality and only at that can you truely hate him or not:
    - He is arrogant.
    - He has a superiority complex problem (partially thanks to Itachi and the uchiha clan).
    - He doesn't accept any help.
    - He loves power more then anything.

    Based on those you can hate him, since well pretty much everyone values friendship alot and hate arrogant or people with superiorty complex. But now to hate him on those is your choice. I tend to neutral since i really don't give a damn about his personality as it is somewhat transformed by his clan and brother. Besides, I rather hate Itachi more since he is Sasuke's personality x 100, plus a mass murderer and no compashion for his own kins.
     
  30. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Well the truth is i aint realy a fan of Sasuke either BattousaiMS. :sweat
    It is just that i think he gets stick when the fact is most of the time he doesn't really deserve it.
    And hell, i wrote it mostly becuase i was fun to do so. :amuse
     
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