1. The NF Anime Awards for 2017 are out! Go check them out here!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Stop Scrolling!
    Attention - When discussing new chapters of an anime or manga, please use a source from the official list of approved sources. If you would like to contribute to the list, please do so in the suggestions section.
    Dismiss Notice

Senju Bros deaths?

Discussion in 'New Leaf' started by Djomla, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Djomla Student

    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    341
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016

    So we have Senju Hashirama, the God of Shinobi, Madara's wet dreams, the first Hokage and his little brother, fastest shinobi of his time, the most badass mother*ucker around, the second Hokage.

    I have two questions.

    1. How did Hashirama die? He was fairly young when it happened? But how did it happen? Did some novel answer the question? Does anybody have some theory? I find it hard to believe that somebody beat him to death. So, was it a natural disease? Something like Itachi's AIDS? Or whatever.

    2. About Tobi's death. It seemed so... Weak. Couldn't he just FTG everyone back to Konoha? Or at least himself when his team was long from the reach of those "elite ninjas"?

    Thanks for all the answers. :knk
     
    Tags:
  2. Hussain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    32,267
    Likes Received:
    2,323
    Trophy Points:
    2,493
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Reputation:
    He got killed during the war
    No, he lived long enough to see Tsunade (his granddaughter), so he was old enough. :catshrug
    people die during wars. Hashirama is no exception.
    He might have not been skilled enough to teleport everyone, or maybe he did not have enough chakra during that time.
    Or Kishi did not think it through. :catshrug
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Djomla Student

    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    341
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Wait a second, Hashirama was killed by someone? Seriously? How the fuck did I miss that one.

    Well I mean fairly young, like in his 40.

    Tobi is a Senju. He should have enough chakra to atleast teleport himself. He didn't seem really tired when he was giving that speech
     
  4. Lord Valgaav My fries

    Messages:
    12,676
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    518
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Reputation:
    Kishi mentioned their deaths way before he decided to start hyping them to godly levels.

    In retrospect there is no group of 'elite' ninja who could take down a team consisting of Tobirama and prime Hiruzen plus others. So his death was bullshit.

    Its a good thing Hashi's death wasn't fully explained because it'd be even more bullshit. Nothing short of Madara himself or old age at that time would have any business killing him.

    Long story short, bad writing is what killed the Senju brothers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Ruthless Tsuchikage Active Member

    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Reputation:
    I think the lack of info about the other villages is to blame here. Just because the series decided to focus on Hashi and Madara so much doesn't mean there could not have been other people with their power level running around. Everyone in that era was ridiculously powerful. Perhaps if we had known something about the other founding Kage's or famous enemy ninja's aside the gold and silver bro's their warrior deaths might have been easier to believe.
     
  6. Lord Valgaav My fries

    Messages:
    12,676
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    518
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Reputation:
    Ninja back in the old warring times were powerful, but not Senju/Uchiha powerful. Those two clans were obvious steps above all others in strength.

    Kishi says Hashi died in war. It has to be bullshit because how would that even be possible? The guy who can solo any Bijuu and the strongest Uchiha was defeated by some unknown/unnamed figure? Can't go for that. No one like that would go unmentioned all this time unless it was a mistake on the author's part.

    Same for Tobirama. As strong as we now know him to be, plus with the added aid of prime Hiruzen, Danzo, and co...who back then were they going to have to run away from and Tobirama sacrifice himself for? Seven Swordsmen is a no. Some Kumo group is plausible but again, people like that would've been named by now.

    It's just inconsistent writing. It would've been better if Kishi said they were poisoned or simply died of old age.
     
  7. Mider T VM Rapist

    Messages:
    75,087
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    3,394
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Reputation:
    Hashirama was killed in the First Great Ninja War in part due to injuries incurred from his fight with Madara.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  8. ItsPajama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    54
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2017
    Reputation:
    Teleporting everyone back to the Leaf would take a massive load of chakra, he probably didn't have at the time since he was already in combat
     
  9. Arles Celes The Psychologist

    Messages:
    16,579
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    888
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Reputation:
    Hashi's death is one of the biggest mysteries of the manga.

    It took like 10000 ninjas to kill the 3rd Raikage. With the fight lasting 3 days.

    So was Hashi poisoned? He offered to end his own life to end the 1st Ninja War(assuming it started due to others fearing his power too much to the point of hating him and how he broke the ninja world power balance)?

    Or did he fight like 100000 ninjas at once for a whole month? :LOS
     
  10. Gunners .

    Messages:
    44,070
    Likes Received:
    558
    Trophy Points:
    1,244
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Reputation:
    Harashima probably went out like Yahiko. The person, group and/or village who killed him isn't famous which leads me to believe he died in a way didn't require strength.
     
  11. Arles Celes The Psychologist

    Messages:
    16,579
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    888
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Reputation:
    I think so too.

    Hashi died fairly young. Too young to make one believe that age weakened him.

    And his killer would be the prime target for becoming Kabuto's edo.
     
  12. Ishmael I'd rather you hadn't seen that.

    Messages:
    7,422
    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    This and the post below are spot on.
    Inconsistent writing is what killed Hashirama , it was best his death wasn't looked into more. If so a lot of other stuff would've had to go a long with it, especially since hype and feats from hashirama in the war arc would go against him dying to some unknown ninjas or ninja.
     
  13. Ishmael I'd rather you hadn't seen that.

    Messages:
    7,422
    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    It was a theory suggesting Hashirama died due to usage of his healing abilities, suggesting that he went out from over exerting himself.
     
  14. balckPho Active Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Reputation:
    Tobi died from his wound killing kin&jin and their team that was cable of taking ( only the brothers a kage) while baying time for the team of 16 year olds shinobi, if he teleported faster they migth have catch up to his students... and he said he will buy time but in the end he killed a major threat to his village and the shinobi system stability - no one said he didn't teleported in the end, but there wasn't any healing shinobi in the caliber of his grand niece back then
     
  15. 1Person Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Reputation:
    My headcanon is that after coming back to life madara somehow killed hashi. Either himself or through luring him into some kind of trap.

    As for tobi, dude had been fighting a war for gosh knows how long and was likely to exhausted to take down 2 psuedo-jinchuriki and 20 jonin to kage level ninjas who were likely prepped against him.

    FTG requires chakra and even if he had enough to save himself, saving his team was more important. Its crazy to me that people assume no one from that era could be threat to senju bros, especially considering how many hax jutsu are out there.
     
  16. Hasan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    344
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Reputation:
    Hashirama likely died during early years of Hiruzen as Hokage, since he was both familiar with Tsunade's strength and said that he spoiled her when she was just a child. He couldn't have died during the First War, if that's true. This [ ] is when Team Hiruzen was formed, and Hiruzen was visibly much younger (when he became Hokage) than he appears in that flashback. So, I think the best explanation is that he retired after VoTE-Battle, and died a natural death later on.

    Tobirama could have saved himself and his team, seeing he teleported everyone outside the temple after Hashirama finished his storytelling. That's an oversight by Kishimoto.
     
  17. 1Person Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Reputation:
    Hiruzen was appointed hokage as a teen by tobirama before he sacrificed himself. The page where it looks like kid hiruzen becomes hokage is misleading because of the way the panels are laid out. The panels of the senju bros talking to happen at two different times. The sanin fought in second war.

    Hashirama was stated to have died on the battlefield.

    Hashi died before that and tobirama took over as hokage then later appoints hiruzen as his successor.
     
  18. Skaddix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,748
    Likes Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    589
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Reputation:
    I am going to guess Hashirama went down like the Third Raikage.

    Maybe he got ambushed right after the Madara Fight.
     
  19. Hasan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    344
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Reputation:
    ...

    I am indeed talking about the Danzō flashback, not the one from Part 1. If Hiruzen became Hokage in his teens, then it's unlikely that Tsunade was even born at that time. Hashirama knows Tsunade, so the idea (from databook) that he died during a war shortly after the foundation (of Konoha) doesn't hold. We also know that Sannin were very young when Team Hiruzen was formed (linked), so it's not a stretch to think that this is the time (or close to) that Hashirama remembers. In other words, Hashirama outlived Tobirama because if he didn't, then he wouldn't have known Tsunade.
     
  20. 1Person Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Reputation:
    My bad I thought you were referring to the part 1 panel. The sannin that age were likely 11-13 like most gennin teams we see. Hashirama remembered tsunade as a toddler imo maybe 3 years old, so I doubt he lived to actually see team hiruzen form. Seems like he had to have died around 10 years prior. He doesn't need to have outlived tobirama to have known tsunade.

    He definitely didn't die of natural causes since he wasn't elderly when was revived like sarutobi was.
     
  21. TheOmega Real Nigga

    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    362
    Trophy Points:
    289
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Reputation:
    Plot did it!

    Minato had armies fleeing on sight.
    Madara solos armies
    Hashirama soloes Madara
    Hashirama < Army makes NO sense
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  22. 1Person Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Reputation:
    Not all armies are created equal.
     
  23. ManicMoe Banned

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Reputation:
    Isnt it possible that Hashirama simply lost the will to live after Madara's '"death" and let himself be killed?

    He was still flesh and blood iirc, so killing him if he allowed it should work
     
  24. TheOmega Real Nigga

    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    362
    Trophy Points:
    289
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Reputation:
    Who's beating Sage Mode Hashirama besides the other 2 people I listed?

    Remember this guy has Juubi wood genetics. He regenerates!

    Wood Clones + Poison Forest + Wood Dragon + Wood Golem + Bigass Buddha = Broken AF
     
  25. 1Person Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Reputation:
    He's strong but no one is invincible. There are had sealing jutsu, space time ninjutsu, mind/soul fuckery, curse jutsu, durability ignoring jutsu and so on.

    He can also be distracted by the death of comrades or having them used as hostages etc.

    All it takes is lucky shot from the wrong person/jutsu.
     
  26. savior2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,717
    Likes Received:
    448
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Reputation:
    Hashirama died in battle, but who knows how.
    Tobirama was killed by the kinkaku force, consisting of at least 20 strong shinobi. The Kin/Gin bros themselves had Rikudo weapons and Kyubi Chakra. That right there is already a bit of a bad matchup for Tobirama. The weapons are dangerous without any knowledge and the Kyubi forms that the bro's had made them much more powerful and dangerous
     
  27. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    239
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    United States
    Hashirama is just overrated.. Hashirama fanboys claim he can't die yet somebody managed to do it.. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was an Ootsutsuki that killed him
     
  28. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    239
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    United States
    :kobeha
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • List
  29. I Blue I Akatsuki Member

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    179
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Reputation:
    Lack of planning and bad writing, plain and simple. Even the five kage together were helpless in the face of Hashirama and Madara's full power. He can fight and subdue the tailed beasts, even the Kyubi, like it's nothing. The Shinobi Alliance marveled at his wood golem and how far above them Hashirama is. Guruguru had the whole army on the ropes with a bootleg version of Hashirama's wood Buddha. Madara casually ran through the Shinobi Alliance with just his taijutsu and base skills, and Hashirama is his equal, so he should be capable of the same. Someone managing a lucky shot on the battlefield seems... unlikely, to say the least, given the ease with which Madara decimated an army. It isn't believable at all that Hashirama could have died in combat.

    Same for Tobirama, especially when it was revealed that he has the single best technique for escaping that situation in Flying Thunder God. To say that he was taken out by unnamed "elites" that are never mentioned or considered again is just sloppy and lazy. Of course, their deaths were established during a time before they were both hyped and powered to the high heavens, so I guess Kishi hadn't yet anticipated using them in the story the way he did much later on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  30. TheOmega Real Nigga

    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    362
    Trophy Points:
    289
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Reputation:
    Man ain't nobody killed Hashi in no fuckin battle ya need to stop believin that bullshit.

    Sage Mode,
    Ashura Vitality,
    Wood Release

    Ain't nobody killin that man lol
     
    • Neutral Neutral x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
Loading...