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Shikamaru and Sai are better friends to Naruto than Team 7

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by Vilu, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:40 PM.

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  1. Vilu

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    I am talking from readers perspective and what is actually in manga, not what Kishimoto said but has never shown.

    There are few examples of T7 bond. :cat
    Sai protects Naruto when Sasuke tries to kill him.

    Sakura complains that Naruto needs support, after all he should be the one who always cheer her up.

    Sakura lies to Naruto she loves him.

    Sasuke tries to kill Sakura after she came to kill him first.

    Sasuke plans to kill Naruto after battle against Kaguya.


    While Shikamaru was the first person who visited Naruto in hospital, he cheered Naruto up after Jiraiya's death when Team 7 left Naruto in misery, wanted to help Naruto against Pain even with broken leg and is excellent advisor when Naruto became hokage.

    Sai protected Naruto from Sasuke when he tried to kill him, he started learning about bonds and emotions thanks to Naruto's influence, protected Naruto from Karui, told Naruto the truth after Sakura lied to him and is great friend that Naruto can rely on.

    Edit: If people want to talk about how other relationships were portrayed in comparison what Kishi said/tried to do they are more than welcome.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 6:21 PM
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  2. Vilu

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    @Zensuki if you want to still debate I created this thread. No idea if I had done it correctly since it's first time I have done it. Not wanna to derail Retsuden thread anymore.
     
  3. Zensuki

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    Why'd you post it in House of Uzumaki?
     
  4. Vilu

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    I thought that threads about relationships should be in this section. New Leaf seamed to me like more about current manga and anime threads. :catthinks
     
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  5. LesExit

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    I always interpreted this moment as showing how much closer Sakura was to Tsunade.
     
  6. Vilu

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    Maybe you're right. :hm Though I think Kishi should show Sakura and Tsunade's bond better. It would be good if Sakura would try to defend Tsunade when Sasuke said he's going to kill 5 Kages.
     
  7. Arles Celes

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    Ehhh, Sasuke was admittedly a big jerk for most of part 2(though he saved Naruto from Haku in part 1 by using his own body as a shield which neither Shika nor Sai ever did) but Sakura saved Naruto's life at least twice from certain death: By keeping him alive after Madara took away Kurama and in the Last after Toneri drained Naruto of chakra). Sakura's worst tsundere moments are anime only and the "love confession" was the result of Sai's guilt trip.

    Sai and Shika were nicer but its clear that Naruto cared more about Sasuke that either or them. Sasuke was the only one he considered as a "brother". With Sakura being sorta a "big sister" who while moody and a bit overbearing was still very important to Naruto.

    That said...didn't Sai mock Naruto's penis? That sounds like a bromance breaker. :vegetant
     
  8. Draco Bolton

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    Kishimoto is the biggest loser of all time with that "friend" concept.

    Hashirama and Madara are "friends" but Madara hate Hashirama and wants to kill him. They always in war against each other.

    With Kakashi/Obito, just look their relationship in Kakashi Gaiden lmao. It's hypocrisy when Kakashi claim Obito is his "friends".

    Same with Orochimaru and Jiraya.

    And of course there's Team 7 :torilol

    Kishimoto knows nothing about human relationships. No wonder he's a proud loser when it comes to romance (here it's the best of the best :tupac)
     
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  9. Vilu

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    The thing is I am not talking if Naruto consider Sasuke as closer friend than Shikamaru. We all know bullshit Kishimoto fed fans. I'm talking about how Naruto's relationships are by what Kishimoto shown us. :naruramen

    So Sakura saving Naruto's life twice counts here. Though Sai also saved Naruto from Sasuke. And did Sai not have a point when he said that both Sasuke and Sakura cause Naruto pain? He guilt tripped Sakura but fake love confession was her decision. And Sai told Naruto the truth about what Konoha 11 decided so he actually tried to fix his mistakes.

    And Shika and Iruka were the ones who helped Naruto after Jiraiya died. So while she can save Naruto as kunoichi she didn't help Naruto when he was depressed as his friend. Only instance of her cheering Naruto was in The Last when she said that Hinata still loves him. Though Shikamaru initiated it so point for him too. And even if Naruto considers Sasuke as "brother" Naruto also helped Shikamaru when he was dying after tree sucked his chakra without thinking consciously.

    Sasuke and Sakura did some good for Naruto but they alao put him through ton of shit. While Sai and Shikamaru have mainly good interactions with Naruto.

    And Sai only joked when he was emotionless and in the beginning of their relationship. If it counts then also counts when Sakura made fun of Naruto being orphan. :smoke
     
  10. Karyu Endan

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    It wasn't the first time something like this happened.
    Spoiler: Were Sakura and Tsunade really that close? Honest question

    Remember the Five Kage Summit arc? Sakura begins the arc worried about Tsunade's coma but the moment she hears the news about Sasuke helping Akatsuki she doesn't give her mentor a second thought. She leaves Konoha to "save" Sasuke and relieve Naruto of the PoaL at first opportunity and doesn't even begin to consider using her medical skills to help Tsunade wake from her coma.

    It could be an extension of Kishimoto's neglect of Sakura in general. I honestly don't think he even thought Sakura and Tsunade were all that close. Let's remember that Sakura sought out Tsunade because she needed to get stronger and save Sasuke alongside Naruto. For Sakura, Tsunade was a means to an end before anything else, and Kishi's writing shows that. Heck, you could even argue that Tsunade has a more personal bond with Naruto than her own pupil. Naruto's the one who inspired Tsunade to keep Dan and Nawaki's dreams alive, overcome her fear of blood, and take the Hokage seat. Sakura's never done anything near that significant for her (being responsible for waking her from her coma could have come close). And on the other end of things, Naruto affectionately considers Tsunade like his grandma while Sakura uses formal honorifics with her almost exclusively, alternating between -sama and -shisou. Sure, you could bring up the scene where Tsunade says that Sakura (and Shizune) is one of the few people she really trusts... but it's revealed that Naruto was in earshot for that entire conversation so he's clearly on that list too.

    Even the scene where Sakura comforts Naruto over Tsunade's coma establishes this despite Sakura's internal monologue. Sakura thinks Naruto should be the one to cheer her up, but Naruto's the one emotionally reacting and bringing up his regrets while Sakura's remaining objective. This in stark contrast to how they deal with Sasuke's turn to evil shortly after; both are equally as disturbed by the news, but it's Naruto who collects himself and keeps to his convictions while Sakura betrays everything she ever stood for in her despair. If Sakura really needed cheering up, we would have seen her breaking down like she did with the Sasuke issue and Sai's guilt trip. One potential reading of the scene is that Naruto has a more personal and closer tie to Tsunade and therefore has a stronger reaction when she's incapacitated.

    If this isn't a valid reading of the scene, and we're supposed to think that Sakura was closer to Tsunade, then we're left with Naruto not noticing Sakura's bond with Tsunade and Sakura being upset about that. Which only demonstrates that Naruto and Sakura aren't very close if Naruto can't even recognize Sakura being in pain over the potential loss of her mentor when Naruto had just gone through an entire arc of experiencing and overcoming the loss of his mentor. And I'm pretty sure that was not Kishi's intent during that arc, especially when the fake confession proves that Naruto knows Sakura well enough that he can see through all her lies immediately.

    Either Naruto can't recognize the pain of losing a mentor in someone else, or Sakura and Tsunade aren't close enough for Naruto to pick up on and empathize with their bond. Either way it reflects badly on someone in that scene.

    If Kishimoto were more concerned with fleshing Sakura out beyond Team 7 drama, some of these scenes could have been written differently and we could have been given more scenes of Sakura and Tsunade interacting without Naruto being present or it involving training, but alas.
     
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  11. Vilu

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    I find your points interesting. It's true with how Naruto and Sakura reacted towards Tsunade and Sasuke respectively. Also how much Tsunade believed in Naruto when she stood up to elders first after Gaara's rescue and then during Pain's attack. And how she went against Raikage to let Naruto join a war. Naruto and Tsunade have strong familial bond. Dunno if you accept "Boruto" but Boruto knew Tsunade while Sarada didn't.

    And it's similar to what I think about Team 7. Kishi clearly wanted Team 7 to be seen as good friends with strong bond. The problem is that Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke's actions contradict it. He made Naruto Team 7 obsessed. Many people complain that part 2 focused too much on Naruto and Sasuke. The problem is that while Naruto cares about his friends, Sasuke didn't want any friends. And Kishimoto didn't show anything why Naruto should care about Sasuke besides their rivarly. Though they could be still rivals even if they would be enemies.
     
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  12. Aduro

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    Sasuke is kind of a given. He has a meaningful role in Naruto's life, and always had the potential for good and support for Naruto. Which he is now trying to fulfil. But loses too many points for choosing his revenge over Naruto so many times as a foolish teenager.

    But Sakura came around to be one of the people that Naruto relies upon the most. She healed him and kept him alive, and believed in him as much as anyone by the end. That was made very clear in the Pein Arc and The Last movie. Arguably I'm not sure anybody shared as much danger and emotional turmoil with Naruto as Sakura.

    Sakura lying to Naruto about loving him was a stupid mistake. But it was a misguided attempt to save Naruto from his promise to save Sasuke. She really was trying to make him happy and safe by not involving himself with a terrorist. And she was willing to risk her life on very long odds to stop that happening to Naruto again. Even if she didn't love him romantically, their bond was critical.

    Its also worth noting the incident on Tenchi Bridge. Naurto went all kyuubi mode when facing Orochimaru, and almost killed Sakura when he went beserk. Naruto lost control and almost got Sakura killed. But Sakura never for an instant blamed Naruto for that. She deliberately hid it from him because she couldn't inflict that guilt on him. Sakura did not need Sai to tell her to be more careful around Naruto's feelings.

    After Sakura grew up a lot over the timeskip, and learned how much Naruto was struggling as a Jinchuuriki, she was a good friend to Naruto.
     
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  13. Vilu

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    Kudos to her that she wasn't afraid of him but I think anyone from Konoha 11 would behave the same.

    The problems I have with confession. What if Naruto bought Sakura's lie and went with her to Konoha? Would she stop lying eventually? And what would really change since everyone still planned to kill Sasuke and Naruto still wanted to save him? And even if she wanted to help Naruto by killing Sasuke she didn't do that when she had a chance. She maybe had good intentions but decided that her love for Sasuke is more important than her friendship to Naruto.

    Though I changed mind a bit about Sakura. I could agree that she was good friend to Naruto but there's one problem. Any good instance only happened when Sasuke wasn't involved. When Sasuke appeared Naruto could not exist at all for Sakura or she would take Sasuke's side even when Naruto was right. So I suppose if it is only Naruto and Sakura without Sasuke they are good friends, not Team 7. If Team 7 would be Naruto, Sakura and Sai with Sasuke not existing I maybe could agree that they are the best friends though I think that the best friend to Naruto has been Shikamaru.

    And I still think that while Sakura is good friend, Shikamaru and Sai are better. Shika was really involved to help Naruto became hokage and was doing a lot more than only believing he can be hokage after the war. And both are Naruto's support in "Boruto". I can say that Sasuke is now pretty good friend to Naruto but he still has killing attempts while the rest don't. So when I look at whole relationships I find Shikamaru and Sai to be better friends than Sasuke and Sakura.

    I think the problem is that people gives examples of Sakura and Sasuke's instances of being good friends while they don't show how it proves that Team 7 are better friends to Naruto than others.
     
  14. Batzzaro29

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    Madara and Hashirama were better friends then both of Naruto/Sasuke ever were.
     
  15. Wrecked Baloney

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    There's an argument for Shikamaru, but not so much for Sai.


    Thanks Kage Summit.
     
  16. Draco Bolton

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    Perhaps but it's still bullshit according to the usual standards of "friendship" (anyway it's clearly Kakashi/Obito "friendship" the worst of all).
     
  17. Arles Celes

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    Sai saving Naruto then did not look like THAT much of a big deal though and it isn't certain if Naruto couldn't somehow defend himself...or have Kurama heal his potential wound at the very least. Sakura also tried to help during that fight. Being unsuccesful in that particular instance does not diminish the intent plus the fact that she loved Sasuke( so it was far more painful for her to attack Sasuke than for Sai).

    When Sakura saved Naruto during the War arc and in the Last it looked like a much more meaningful rescue...like if Naruto would have died for real if not for her.

    And Sai's point about Sakura causing Naruto pain was outright retarded unless you believe that Naruto loved Sakura and his love for her was causing him pain.

    I can understand your point regarding Sasuke at least post the Itachi Return arc in part 1.

    But I see nothing from Sakura pointing at her being a bad friend aside from the initial comment about Naruto being an orphan which she hadn't told him to his face and for which she felt regretful about soon afterwards anyway.

    The point is that we received very little meaningful interactions between Naruto and Sai...even less Naruto and Shikamaru. With Sai acting far more rude towards Naruto in just one arc than Sakura did in the rest of the manga anyway IMO. Shikamaru still ignored Naruto when they were kids and wasn't there for him like Iruka. I don't recall Shika saving Naruto's life or taking a blow for him either.

    So we may say how 1010 or Ino are also better friends to Naruto than Sakura because we never saw them act mean towards Naruto but hardly do any big sacrifice or have any deep positive interaction either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 8:53 AM
  18. Vilu

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    With you're comment about Sai thinking that Naruto loved Sakura being retarted I agree. You're right here.

    Shikamaru wanted to help Naruto during fight against Pain even with broken leg. He didn't because Naruto asked to not interfere in fight. If there would be occasion Shika would save Naruto. During Konoha crush Shikamaru was willing to sacrifice his life to let Naruto and Sakura go after Sasuke and Gaara. Shikamaru proved that he would die to protect his friends, Naruto included.

    And bond not express only in how many times you had a chance to save someone's life. Shikamaru was there for Naruto after Jiraiya died when Team 7 left depressed Naruto alone. Shikamaru worked hard to help Naruto become Hokage and now is main support for Naruto in his work.

    Kishimoto always downplayed Sasuke trying to kill Naruto, that's why it feels insignificant when Sai saved Naruto. If Kishi would treat killing attempt as seriously as he should then Naruto would stop chasing after him long ago. And while Sai was rude at first he became nice. I actually find his interactions with Naruto nicer than Sakura's and he actually respects Naruto. Sai defended Naruto when Karui attacked him and told Naruto the truth about Sakura's plan to fix his mistake. Unfortunately later Kishi ignored Sai like anyone outside OG Team 7.

    And Sakura wasn't nice to Naruto in academy, don't know how it would prove that she's better friend than Shikamaru.

    Btw I would add Gaara to list of Naruto's better friends than Team 7. He saved Naruto's life, he and Naruto support each other and have amazing bond.:cat

    Anyway for now I only got that since Sakura and Sasuke saved his life then it means they are better friends and only indicator of good relationship. You can even call Itachi better friend than Shikamaru since he had occasion to save Naruto from Nagato.

    Seems like our definitions of good friends differ. For example I would say that Boruto and Kawaki's relationship is better developed than Team 7's bond through whole "Naruto". So I suppose we need to agree to disagree. :catshrugThanks for discussion. If you would still debate go ahead, I can continue if you want to. :catflower
     
  19. Punished Kiba

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    /Thread
     
  20. dergeist

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    Well Naruto wasn't thirsty for either of them so it makes sense, no? :oldshrug

    Naruto loves Sakura.
    Naruto loves Sasuke.
    Sakura loved Sasuke.
    Sasuke loved Itachi.

    That was pretty much the dynamic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 7:42 AM
  21. Arles Celes

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    Shikamaru's example is a bit strange since even Sasuke in part 1 also did such stuff both when he took Haku's blow and when he told Naruto to escape with Sakura while he holds Gaara as long as he can.

    Shikamaru was once there for Naruto when Jiraiya died, true. But when was he when Naruto was all alone and ostracized? What makes him special here?

    Also...does it mean that Hinata, Kakashi and Sai were bad friends then since they did not cheer Naruto up when Jiraiya died? Was that the one true chance to prove who is friend and who is not?

    Kishimoto did not necassarily downplay it IMO. Most characters were saying how Naruto should let it go. Including the likes of Jiraiya or even Sakura herself. I think Kabuto even called him obsessed once. It would be a downplay if it was encouraged and not seen as a big deal.

    Sakura wasn't nice to Naruto in the academy but neither we got anything positive from the other kids to show they were much better. Shika, Kiba, Chouji and Naruto often seemed to appear together...when they were shouted at by Iruka for their laziness. No bonding with Naruto there.

    As for Boruto and Kawaki's relationship...does it include the potential betrayal or not? And should it count at all since we still do not know so much about it? If Kawaki were to kill Himawari for example on top of killing Naruto would you cheer for the bond, consider it an abomination or call it still better than the Naruto/Sasuke bond at least in terms of being "healthy"?. I think we should wait longer before we compare the two IMO.

    You add Gaara...but are you planning to include the whole "Gaara package" or only the post-TNJ part? Because if only the latter then so you should do the same for Sasuke. Gaara also tried to kill Naruto at least twice (even planned to kill him slowly hoping that Naruto might try to run away to save his skin and abandon his companions which would bring great joy to Gaara back then). Was his friendship with Naruto then always tainted by said past behavior or not? And if not then why Sasuke should be measured differently? And why not use Adult Sasuke to compare with post tnj Gaara?

    The only difference IMO is that it took much longer to reach a TNJ with Sasuke due to him being harder to beat and it happening much later.

    I dunno if our definitions of friendship differ. If Shikamaru was shown being snarky/smartassed around Naruto a few times or doing something stupid via a guiltrip would he no longer be a good friend since there would be a blemish there?

    If that was the case and the only friendships are the ones which had no ugly moments at all then only Iruka and perhaps Hinata would count as Naruto's friends since only them never looked down on Naruto, never tried to kill him and never did something mean to him intentionally or otherwise. The rest was "tainted" to a bigger or lesser extent. With most needing to be TNJd into friendship.

    We can still debate about it as long as we do it nicely.

    Peace. :heart
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM
  22. Corvida

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    eeeeer
    No
    She decided she still believed Sasuke could be saved
    Sameas Naruto when he was seen thinking "I´ll decide what to do when I get there"

    And this shit



    was the lowest thing that Bitch of Sai could have done
    And proven ultimately stupid when the supposed love martyr Naruto next said his saving Sasuke wasnt about the promise

    wa?

     
  23. Vilu

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    Damn, so much text. :catdefeat I will try to reduce it, OK?

    I mostly judge if relationships became better or worse with time. Since nobody was there for Naruto before Iruka then it gives most characters same start so no point in judging anyone especially since they were kids besides Jiraiya and Kakashi who were friends with Naruto's parents. If relationship started poorly but developed into strong bond I will rate it positive like with Shikamaru, Gaara and Sai.

    With Sasuke they developed bond but it went to shit and he tried to murder his friend few times I will rate it negative. With Sakura it's mixed. They have become good friends but I suppose what most will find as comedic moments, and I don't even talk about punching Naruto, were annoying for me. Also I don't like that Sakura totally ignores everyone when Sasuke appears. She changes her personality completely when she's near Uchiha. If there would be more scenes where Sakura and Naruto hang out and are friendly to each other I would rate their friendship more positively. Even better if it would be Team 7 and Sakura talked to Naruto instead of ignoring and insulting him.

    Shikamaru was also smartass and snarky to Naruto but since there are many scenes where Shikamaru and Naruto supports each other I don't have problem with it.

    I would say Kakashi was bad friend since he ignored Naruto after Jiraiya died. Sai was still emotionally stunned so I would give him some slack since he showed improvement in next arc. Hinata had many good scenes with Naruto after Jiraiya died including where she tried to protect him from Pain and helped Naruto after Neji's death so she's cool for me.

    If Kawaki on his own will kill Hima or Naruto and Boruto will call him brother after it I will go berserk. :blobree Though I think Boruto and Kawaki have a lot better foundation than Naruto and Sasuke. It gives me hope that Kodachi won't fuck up their relationship like Kishi with Naruto and Sasuke did.

    I don't think that character can't redeem himself. I think that Naruto and Kakashi's relationship in part 1 was shit but they improved a lot in part 2 even Kakashi didn't help Naruto though some kudos for him that he asked Shika to help Naruto.

    I find adult Naruto and Sasuke friendship nice after Sasuke came to his senses. Just character needs to really redeem himself. I think SS is totally underdeveloped and saying "Yeah sorry" and touching Sakura's forehead isn't enough to forgive murder attempts especially when he leaves her with little child for years without contact. I suppose if Naruto and Sakura gave Sasuke a shit and he actually worked to earn their forgiveness I would see it differently. And if they had really good relationship before Sasuke went to Orochimaru. Kishi added some Naruto&Sasuke flashbacks and reicarnate brothers in part 2 to justify why Naruto should still want to save Sasuke after all this shit Uchiha pulled.

    And I can't speak much about adult Naruto and Sakura friendship because it doesn't seem to exist, after they achieved common goal to save Sasuke, besides The Last. Was there even conversation between them in "Boruto"?

    It's why I think Shikamaru, Sai and Gaara are better friends than Team 7.

    Damn, wall of text. :gglife
     
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  24. Arles Celes

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    Sasuke's case is a bit complicated as Sasuke was "broken" before he ever became a Team 7 member unlike the likes of Shikamaru or Sakura. One could bring Sai but Sasuke's hate/despair issues are rather different than Sai's education under Danzo. Sasuke had several corrupters trying to turn him into a bigger and bigger jerk unlike said other friends. Naruto's and Sasuke's bond in the Waves arc was not so different from what we got with Boruto and Kawaki. Both were antagonistic towards each other but came to care about each other and even risk their life for each other. In the Forest of Death Sasuke proved himself a rather competent a reliable friend too and did not hold a grudge over Naruto calling him a coward once.

    Sakura...well, Kishi simply IMO did not know how to deal with slice of life interactions between boys and girls. We hardly have ANY boys and girls hanging around talking about casual stuff. Sakura was also equally focused in part 2 to protect both of them from Oro and Akatsuki respectively. Only in part 1 was Sakura so overfocused on Sasuke and even then she had moments of kindness towards Naruto like when she was willing to surrender in the Chuunin exams to protect his Hokage dream or when she told him he doesn't have to rescue Sasuke after seeing how hurt he ended up.

    Kakashi is a bit hard to define case. IMO Kakashi was still better than Jiraiya as it was the latter who was designed as Naruto's Godfather yet despite that he ignored Naruto for like 12-13 years despite knowing Kushina was pregnant and doing nothing to help the kid who was left to shoulder the hatred of almost the whole village. He did not even recognize him right away and used those years to write porn books instead. Hardly cool...

    Kakashi likely noticed that Sasuke being the kid in his group with the most serious issues needs his supervision the most. That and the fact that Kakashi realized that Sasuke is the same type of ninja when it comes to the fighting style. Both got a Raiton affinition, both are geniuses, both focus on skill over raw power, etc. Naruto was mostly suffering from immaturity issues which were likely seen as less serious and with less trouble potential than an angsty avenger. Jiraiya appearing and showing he got a much more fitting skillset to teach Naruto also played a role. Plus like Kakashi said Naruto first needed to learn the basics before he could teach him anything and Ibisu happened to be much better at teaching that by his own admission. In part 2 when Naruto improved Kakashi dedicated a whole arc to teaching Naruto which allowed him to learn one of his most powerful ninjutsus and close the gaps on all basic stuff he had not covered fully yet.

    Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke seem to interact quite a few times together in the anime. Not so much less than Naruto and Gaara who do not live in the same village after all. Naruto and Sasuke retain some of their old bickering but it seems to be intended a friendly bicker and nothing negative. Sasuke helping Naruto's son to mature while also saving Naruto from Momo also supports that. As to why SS did not get much showcase is mostly due to Kishi not focusing on ships beyond the drama and tease part IMO. We did not get any scenes of Shikamaru and Temari hanging around or of Naruto and Hinata hanging around. It doesn't mean they never did but Kishi simply both isn't good at writing such stuff and preferring to focus on drama/bromances which is his favorite topic(alongside parental issues). We also never got much friendship bonding between girls aside from it being romance related rivalry lol. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though. After an issue is solved Kishi simply moved to the next one instead of focusing on how the fixed bond looks like.

    And Sakura hitting Naruto moments are quite few in the manga and are meant to be just siblingish bickering that is not presented negatively but merely in a comedic manner. I may not like it but I get where it is coming from. I also do not know how Naruto and Sasuke could give Sasuke shit/hell and make him work for forgiveness exactly? He was pure angst in atoner mode and if we count the anime version as canon of that time then Sasuke even stayed in prison for months. Were they supposed to call him names or something? Refuse to call him friend till he...did what exactly? Sakura still loving him was controversial but its her choice and since Naruto was not in love with her she did not break his feelings maliciously to lust after the wrong guy instead or anything. So it does not make her a worse friend to Naruto or anything.
     
  25. Vilu

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    I understand that Sasuke was broken after massacre. I think that Naruto and Sasuke's relationship was developing nicely until Itachi came. And Orochimaru and others manipulated him. It's just doesn't change fact that Sasuke was shitty friend.

    With Sakura it lacked actual friendly meetings. They only interacted because they cared for Sasuke and was on the same team. Since they don't have missions together they stopped contacting each other and Hinata and Sakura are closer friends than Naruto and Sakura.

    And I understand why Kakashi trained Sasuke. Though if Kakashi really thought that Naruto lacked in basics then he's total moron that he appointed Team 7 in chunin exams. I understand that Sasuke needed Kakashi more. It's just that there wasn't any deep bond between Kakashi and Naruto in part 1.

    I know that punches are supposed to be "funny" and I just ignore them. I am talking about other "funny" moments where Sakura noticed Sasuke but Naruto had to remind that he exists to her or when she calls him names. It rubs me wrong since Naruto was treated like he doesn't exists his whole childhood and even his friends wouldn't care if he wasn't with them.

    With Sasuke's redemption it would be good if Naruto and Sakura weren't so trusting and forgiving. Not belittle or reject Sasuke but at least be wary of him and he had to prove that he's sorry that he tried to kill them. But I know that Kishi wanted to end manga already so we got forehead poke and "sorry".

    The thing is these are excuses for why Team 7 relatationships were bad, not examples that they are better friendships than Sai and Shikamaru's with Naruto.

    Though like I said I find adult Naruto and Sasuke relationship nice. They respect and support each other. If there wasn't horrible Shippuden I would say they have the best friendship. :peepofeels

    Anyway I think that the less Kishi focuses on relationship the less he fucks them up. That's why I suppose Shikamaru and Sai are better friends than Sasuke and Sakura. ShikaTema and MinaKushi are universally loved because Kishi didn't add drama into them.
     
  26. Milliardo

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    Sasuke and Naruto were never really friends. That was just some bullshit forced writing by Kishi. Friends hangout with one another and have actual fun moments together. Actually want to be around one another.

    Sasuke and Naruto never did shit like this ever... It wasn't til the end of the manga that they actually became real friends.

    So yes Gaara, Sai, and Shikamaru were better friends because they actually were his friends..
     
  27. Yagami1211

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    They felt they were friends before but never really acted like friends before the end.
     
  28. Suigetsu

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    Unironically Team taka are better friends to sasuke than team 7. Like suigetsu for example, he never forced him to change, he supported him as a friend would.
     
  29. Arthas

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    Regarding Team 7 being in the Chuunin Exams, I disagree. The main problem with the Chuunin Exams was Orochimaru (which was something Kakashi did not expect). If you remove him from the equation then the whole Chuunin Exam experience turned out quite valuable for Team 7.

    See I don't believe that Kakashi sent Team 7 into the Chuunin exams expecting that all three would become Chuunins. At most he would have expected Sasuke and Naruto to do well in the Third Exam while *maybe* Sasuke becomes a chuunin (The reason I pick Sasuke is that out of Team 7, Sasuke possessed both Heaven and Earth as described by Iruka).

    Now the reason why Kakashi sent Team 7 into the Chuunin Exams because the exams themselves would provide valuable experience for the team. Sasuke and Naruto grew tremendously due to the exam and even Sakura tied with her rival and more importantly got a valuable lesson in the Forest of Death (I wish that had stuck).

    I feel the same way about the non-team 7 K11 in general every time someone wishes that they had more focus. In my view Kishi messes up a lot of characters when he focuses on them and the reason why they remain popular is because Kishi has not focused on their characters.

    Now on to the topic in general :

    I think even Kishi himself realises that he messed up as he described people thinking Naruto and Sasuke as lunatics in a Part 2 interview.



    Now let's address the main reasons for this :

    Kishi does not plan or at least does not plan properly. Sasuke was not protrayed as a 'brother' or even a great 'friend' in Part 1. He was a FANTASTIC rival though.

    However later Kishi changed his mind and wanted to portray that relationship as Naruto and Sasuke being best friends all along or even 'brothers in spirit'.

    He retconned a few scenes into their past history while trying to justify that brotherhood but it just did not work.
     
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  30. KisaitaParadise

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    Team 7 is a dysfunctional failure. Most people with relationship knowledge know this. Tbh Sai was a real one, he kept it 100 and Sakura and Naruto were just lovestruck bitvhes . Shikamaru been there since day 1. Didn't make fun of Naruto and stood by his side and was true to himself and others. They real ones, I need that:feelsgoodman
     
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