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So ... how do Baryon Naruto and Isshiki compare to God tiers like Kaguya and Hagoromo now?

BlackBoo

Well-Known Member
I know that there are already other matches involving these characters, but it seems that some people differ in relation to the power of Isshiki compared to characters like Kaguya and Hagoromo (some people consider War arc Kaguya to be superior to Isshiki for example).

But what would your tier look like now? We know that Kaguya is superior to Hagoromo and by portrait / hype / feats, Isshiki theoretically would be superior to Kaguya too? Or just the pre-fruit Kaguya?
And would Baryon Naruto, who exceeds Isshiki's power, theoretically be the strongest character in the series now? Not necessarily just in battle (which involves other factors), but in relation to power / statistics
 

Mawt

Well-Known Member
He's still weaker than Hagoromo. He isn't beating him with a form he can use for like 1 minute without passing out. I also find it hard to believe Kurama's "muh nuclear fusion" is somehow stronger than the Sage of Six Paths who should theoretically be able to do the same exact thing.

Naruto also still loses to Kaguya. No way to seal her, even if we assume he's statistically stronger than her. He runs out of lifespan.
 
Really close to them , could be higher , lower or equal . If higher or lower , not by much , really close.Much like Mawt said I don't see Naruto winning against Kaguya even if he is would be stronger than her since the bitch is literally immortal and he has no way of sealing her.

Dunno if he beats hagoromo.
 

The Overvoid

Yes, I hate boruto, so what?
Nohow, Isshiki was bisected by pre-fruit Kaguya and jobbed on by SM Jiraiya's clone in hand to hand combat, they're not even close to Naruto top tiers, Naruto and Sauce got nerfed.
 

IpHr0z3nI

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it's just Ike's style, but I don't see Naruto or Isshiki besting Kaguya or Hagoromo with just taijutsu; which has taken over the Boruto manga adaptation.
 

sabre320

Well-Known Member
He's still weaker than Hagoromo. He isn't beating him with a form he can use for like 1 minute without passing out. I also find it hard to believe Kurama's "muh nuclear fusion" is somehow stronger than the Sage of Six Paths who should theoretically be able to do the same exact thing.

Naruto also still loses to Kaguya. No way to seal her, even if we assume he's statistically stronger than her. He runs out of lifespan.
The mode literally uses his rikudo reserves as fuel for nuclear fusion which produces output a hundred thousandfold....for that one minute naruto is essentially the greatest stats brute force in naruto/boruto but with a small timelimit. It has serious limitations but making it out to be weaker then rsm is just lol
 

Mawt

Well-Known Member
The mode literally uses his rikudo reserves as fuel for nuclear fusion which produces output a hundred thousandfold....for that one minute naruto is essentially the greatest stats brute force in naruto/boruto but with a small timelimit. It has serious limitations but making it out to be weaker then rsm is just lol
I'm talking about Hagoromo, not SPSM. Baryon Mode is obviously much stronger than SPSM.
 

sabre320

Well-Known Member
I'm talking about Hagoromo, not SPSM. Baryon Mode is obviously much stronger than SPSM.
And we know even hagoromo is not ridiculously above rsm naruto as we saw not even prime kaguya could shitstomp rsm naruto and sasuke together yet jigen humiliated the duo and teared their avatars like paper through sheer stats and iishiki is far above jigen and this naruto pushed even past iishiki in power and stats. He is at a point where only prime hamura and hagoromo are possibly above him and kaguya might be the only one confirmed above him.
 
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Mawt

Well-Known Member
And we know even hagoromo is not ridiculously above rsm naruto as we saw not even prime kaguya could shitstomp rsm naruto and sasuke together yet jigen humiliated the duo and teared their avatars like paper through sheer stats and iishiki is far above jigen and this naruto pushed even past iishiki in power and stats. He is at a point where only prime hamura and hagoromo are possibly above him and kaguya might be the only one confirmed above him.
Well, Naruto powerscaling is all over the place so it's hard to tell. Based on narrative though, it makes no sense for Naruto to be stronger than Hagoromo or Kaguya.
 

MShadows

Deathbat
Moderator
No way Naruto is close to Kaguya or Hagoromo.

Jinchuuriki Hagoromo is basically himself + post-fruit Kaguya. However, the Kaguya that we saw in Shippuden should be stronger as she also has all the chakra added from the IT victims. This is also supported by Hagoromo admitting inferiority to his mother.

Prime Isshiki could be fatally wounded by a pre-fruit Kaguya. And (if I'm not mistaken) the Isshiki that is fighting Naruto & Sasuke now is not at full power due to being revived in an imperfect vessel.

This same Isshiki was stomping adult Naruto & Sasuke, who are logically stronger than their teenage selves despite all the shitty portrayal from that idiot Kodachi.

But Naruto with his Baryon Mode can in turn stomp Isshiki at the peak of his power.

This whole entire thing is messy, but I would say that Baryon Mode Naruto could be somewhere between Isshiki and post-fruit Kaguya.
 

BlackBoo

Well-Known Member
No way Naruto is close to Kaguya or Hagoromo.

Jinchuuriki Hagoromo is basically himself + post-fruit Kaguya. However, the Kaguya that we saw in Shippuden should be stronger as she also has all the chakra added from the IT victims. This is also supported by Hagoromo admitting inferiority to his mother.

Prime Isshiki could be fatally wounded by a pre-fruit Kaguya. And (if I'm not mistaken) the Isshiki that is fighting Naruto & Sasuke now is not at full power due to being revived in an imperfect vessel.

This same Isshiki was stomping adult Naruto & Sasuke, who are logically stronger than their teenage selves despite all the shitty portrayal from that idiot Kodachi.

But Naruto with his Baryon Mode can in turn stomp Isshiki at the peak of his power.

This whole entire thing is messy, but I would say that Baryon Mode Naruto could be somewhere between Isshiki and post-fruit Kaguya.

Well, Isshiki due to hype and feats is supposed to be above Kaguya, who consequently is also stronger than Hagoromo.

Also, not even prime Kaguya demonstrated the ability to destroy Sasuke's Susanoo with physical blows (she needed to use Chakra for that) and teen RSM Naruto was pretty much able to keep up with her, while Jigen (weaker than Isshiki) overcame Susanoo's defense literally with one blow and defeated both basically without being touched (although their portrait was pretty bad).

So, if Naruto overcame Isshiki, theoretically he would be above Kaguya and Hagoromo at least in physical parameters
 

blk

Well-Known Member
In terms of raw stats and power Baryon Naruto is the strongest of the verse as of now.

Isshiki second strongest.

Then probably a tie between Kaguya and prime Hag.


However Naruto can only use that mode for a very small period of time and he still gets out haxed by these names, so in terms of overall standing he is still below.
 

Turrin

玄武
I know that there are already other matches involving these characters, but it seems that some people differ in relation to the power of Isshiki compared to characters like Kaguya and Hagoromo (some people consider War arc Kaguya to be superior to Isshiki for example).

But what would your tier look like now? We know that Kaguya is superior to Hagoromo and by portrait / hype / feats, Isshiki theoretically would be superior to Kaguya too? Or just the pre-fruit Kaguya?
And would Baryon Naruto, who exceeds Isshiki's power, theoretically be the strongest character in the series now? Not necessarily just in battle (which involves other factors), but in relation to power / statistics
We have confirmation that Naruto still has his Six Paths Sage Mode, so he’s not weaker then in the WA; he’s strong as he has had more Years to improve. This means Ishiki was doing better against Sasuke and Naruto then Kaguya was; how much better is debatable, but even if we saw Ishiki and Kaguya are the same tier, this would mean Byron Naruto has power above that level; albeit I don’t see him winning against Kaguya (or Ishiki without body failure) due to his time-limit in the mode. But certainly Naruto unlocked another level of power here
 

Turrin

玄武
No way Naruto is close to Kaguya or Hagoromo.

Jinchuuriki Hagoromo is basically himself + post-fruit Kaguya. However, the Kaguya that we saw in Shippuden should be stronger as she also has all the chakra added from the IT victims. This is also supported by Hagoromo admitting inferiority to his mother.

Prime Isshiki could be fatally wounded by a pre-fruit Kaguya. And (if I'm not mistaken) the Isshiki that is fighting Naruto & Sasuke now is not at full power due to being revived in an imperfect vessel.

This same Isshiki was stomping adult Naruto & Sasuke, who are logically stronger than their teenage selves despite all the shitty portrayal from that idiot Kodachi.

But Naruto with his Baryon Mode can in turn stomp Isshiki at the peak of his power.

This whole entire thing is messy, but I would say that Baryon Mode Naruto could be somewhere between Isshiki and post-fruit Kaguya.
Ishiki did much better against a stronger Naruto and Sasuke then Post-Fruit Kaguya did. Ishiki is >= Kaguya
 

Alita

Alita>You
For me it's....

Prime kaguya (With chakra from IT victims absorbed) > Baryon Naruto ~ Post fruit kaguya ~ Current Isshiki ~ Juubi jin hagomoro > Base hagomoro > pre fruit kaguya
 
The most you could argue is that Naruto has better stats than they do now but they still kick his ass in the hax department AND they can easily stall out his very shitty mode

Baryon Mode is basically the new 8G Gai

Where hes got insane stats but has nothing else worth a damn in his arsenal AND cant fight for very long at all, so he gets mollywhopped by Gods with better movesets.

Hag can still GG his ass with the seals, COAT, or BFR

Kaguya can neg him with Ash bones, Mugen, Amenominaka, Yotsuka or ETSB

Naruto is still not a top God tier

His new mode is vastly overrated tbh
 

Arles Celes

The Psychologist
He's still weaker than Hagoromo. He isn't beating him with a form he can use for like 1 minute without passing out. I also find it hard to believe Kurama's "muh nuclear fusion" is somehow stronger than the Sage of Six Paths who should theoretically be able to do the same exact thing.

Naruto also still loses to Kaguya. No way to seal her, even if we assume he's statistically stronger than her. He runs out of lifespan.
Kurama muh fusion is still more believable to make a guy who is already a god tier above Hago than 8th Gate make a Jounin jump to god tier.

Its Kurama's 8th Gate and Kurama is way above gateless Guy.

Suicide jutsus pack quite a punch in this manga.
 

Mawt

Well-Known Member
Kurama muh fusion is still more believable to make a guy who is already a god tier above Hago than 8th Gate make a Jounin jump to god tier.

Its Kurama's 8th Gate and Kurama is way above gateless Guy.

Suicide jutsus pack quite a punch in this manga.
My only problem with it is that it's an asspull and it's barely explained and it messes up the power scaling even more than it already has been. Can Hagoromo or Kaguya use Baryon Mode? They're also Jinchuriki and they should also be able to do it. It just makes no sense as a power up and it's an inconsistency. :oldshrug
 

Arles Celes

The Psychologist
My only problem with it is that it's an asspull and it's barely explained and it messes up the power scaling even more than it already has been. Can Hagoromo or Kaguya use Baryon Mode? They're also Jinchuriki and they should also be able to do it. It just makes no sense as a power up and it's an inconsistency. :oldshrug
Its true that it is an asspull but that does not make it any less powerful.

Whether Kaguya or Hago can use Baryon Mode is neither explained nor confirmed. Neither Kaguya nor Hago were Kurama's Jin. And Kurama back in Hago's era might not have known about Baryon Mode just like a 5 year old Naruto did not know Rasengan. Juubi alone is a wild beast so it makes no sense for it to be knowledgeable about such scientific stuff. Also Kaguya and Hago do not have to know how to use every jutsu that Naruto, Sasuke ans Kurama learned over the course of their life just because they are Kaguya and Hago.
 

Hajicafe

Nejiten
Naruto and Sasuke had 50% Hagoromo's chakra against Kaguya.

We saw that chakra given to someone eventually runs out. (Ex. Obito and Kakashi, Naruto and SA).

So, Naruto only kept SPSM and Sasuke kept his Rinnegan. But the chakra they got from Hagoromo himself should be gone with the seal.

Naruto's new form is probably equal to his AA or maybe close to base Kaguya who could also bring Isshiki near death.

Base Hagoromo faught Post fruit Kaguya with Hamura's help. So Naruto should be far weaker than Hagoromo even now.

He is probably somewhere between Base Kaguya to Isshiki. Inferior to Base Hagoromo and Post fruit Kaguya.
 

DaVizWiz

Well-Known Member
The mode only lasts a minute and only succeeded in slightly improving his speed above Isshiki’s, who is clearly weaker than Fruit Kaguya and IT powered Fruit Kaguya

Since he used no Ninjutsu in it he’s extremely limited, basically only a match type fighter

I already listed how easy it would be for Kaguya to casually outlast this mode by just bringing the pyramid dimension into play, which mitigates Naruto’s speed advantage, and avoiding him by just portal jumping until he dies or weakens to a point where she can one shot him a minute in

Basically a neg diff stomp for Kaguya

Offensively Kaguya can reshape a world, Naruto can‘t even lethally wound a god level

So, yeah, way weaker than Kaguya overall
 

Arles Celes

The Psychologist
A Teen RSM tired from from the war effort could offer a decent amount of resistance to Kaguya empowered with MT victims who in turn is stronger than Hago.

Even after Kaguya decided to kill him.

Its only common sense that an Adult Naruto who is not tired and got the remaining half of Kurama is above his teen self.

Jigen in V2 completely stomped Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke. With Sasuke admitting that he and Naruto were unable to even put a dent on Jigen.

Isshiki is stronger than Jigen.

And Bayron Mode Naruto was at least a bit stronger than Isshiki. Especially during the beginnning of the fight.

Unless Kaguya uses Amenominaka to trap Naruto in one of her dimensions or uses MT on him Bayron Mode Naruto exceeds her in pretty much everything. He can blitz her harder than before, tear apart more than her arm, tank all but the Ash Bones which he should be able to easily dodge (he could dodge them even as a teen).

Hago is owned by Bayron Mode Naruto even harder unless Hago BFRs him. Plus he is not confirmed to have regen like Kaguya. And RSM does not give such a great regen.
 
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