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So how much Sage Mode amps KCM2/Biju Mode?

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Batzzaro29, May 18, 2018.

  1. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    Naruto's BM Avatar and EMS Sasuke's susanoo are likely equal in speed and strength with BM Avatar having superiority in durability, fire power & advantage of having multiple tails etc...

    Then Sasuke created Senjutsu Susanoo after receiving CS Senjutsu from Juugo.

    And CS Senjutsu should make EMS Sasuke/Susanoo 10 times faster/Stronger like it does... Even more if you consider One Tailed Chakra Cloak amp.

    BSM Avatar was still equal to Senjutsu Susanoo(chakra cloak) in speed and strength.

    So how much SM amped BM Naruto?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  2. Buuhan Hokage of the Six Paths

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  3. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    Barely anything IF at all

    Easiest way to debunk BSM wank is to look at ... ... by the same shit with the same effort from Obito...

    Really all SM allowed naruto to do was give his attacks the prerequisite attribute to actually bypass Yin/Yang nullification

    It barely moves him overall

    SM is simply a dirt tier amp by those standards

    Hardly what id call a crushing revelation
     
  4. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    Thats also flat out wrong because both mechs are completely dusted by the same attack :catshrug

    They have the same durability
     
  5. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Naruto and Minato coordinating attacks proves they have the same speed and power the same way Tsunade and Backpack A4 coordinating attacks proves they have the same speed and power.

    Which I'm sure everyone would agree with right?

    And senjutsu is a huge boost for people with Kurama levels of chakra like Hashirama and Madara, is used by JJ's and Rikudo class fighters, is sought after even by Orochimaru, makes cursed seals that bump even Kage level fighters up comsiderably.

    There is no reason to assume Naruto is the unstated exception to this rule.
     
  6. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    Not enough to reach Hashirama

    :catwalk
     
  7. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    If SM is dart tier amp for BM then...

    Base Hashirama = SM Hashirama right? Because it should be also dart tier amp for him.

    Base Hashirama > EMS Madara/100% Kurama.

    CS makes user 10 times faster and stronger you have no, So it also makes Senjutsu Susanoo 10 times stronger.

    Show me where it is stated SM is dirt tier for BM or CS Senjutsu not making Susanoo 10 times faster and stronger and BSM Avatar was comparable to it.

    Both machs were grabbed by TSB, which disintegrates shit by contact.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  8. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    Youre using this example sarcastically but it actually does hold merit :catshrug

    Tsuande and Weighted A very clearly possess similar levels of strength, but differing levels of speed

    They both tag madara and do comparable damage with individual hits, actually weighted A VASTLY outperforms her by putting a hole in V3 whereas Tsunade merely breaks a ribcage and cant actually damage V3

    Regarding speed, its stated Tsunade is slower and also SHOWN that she is, A crosses a much greater distance than Tsuande does when they "coordinate" and he gets to their shared destination BEFORE she does despite the fact she has a head start...

    So...Yeah...Their strength (regarding WEIGHTED A compared to Byakugo Tsunade) is comparable but their speed clearly aint

    So bad example there bro
    Except thats not really shown in terms of general ability whatsoever

    Hashi can use SS with SM while he cant do so in base, yeah thats visibly obvious and no one would deny that

    But we dont see Hashis golem or mokuryu or even Hashi himself perform on vastly different levels than they could WITHOUT said amps now do we?

    And same deal with Madara...All he really gets out of SM is the ability to fight while blinded...He doesnt perform on a notably higher level than he did prior to gaining SM

    He bitches the biju with Rinnegan...Not SM...And its not highlighted that SM made any drastic improvement to his visual prowess...Unlike literally ANY other time visual prowess is amped by a third party...

    So again...Doesnt really show a tremendous difference
    A version of SM thats in a COMPLETELY different realm of power and fueled by Rikudo chakra you mean

    Nice false equivalence
    Orochimaru is a shit example following your logic train

    Youre trying to argue why Kurama+ level beings are vastly affected by SM...
    Oro is not in that demographic
    Except this isnt true either

    Sasuek doesnt jump far whatsoever with CS2...He still operates in the same general tier the same way BSM naruto operates in the same tier as BM naruto

    I mean no one would argue that BoS sasuke jumps to High Kage tier in performance with CS2 now would they?

    Same principal :catshrug
    Theres no exception and theres no rule

    Its just very clear that by the war arc Kishi had vastly watered down how big of an increase SM was when stacked on BM

    Im not arguing that he doesnt move or isnt affected by it, im saying the boost is smaller than most think it is

    And thats because it is :catshrug

    Naruto doesnt move tier wise between BM and BSM...He barely outperforms himself or another BM user...Or sasuke who is using literally a FRACTION of the biju juice naruto is and a meager amount of NE by comparison in a less potent way on top of that...

    Its pretty clear SM isnt meant to be portrayed as all that crazy of a boost

    Although i do agree that it SHOULD be, im just saying thats clearly not the case
     
  9. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    *Dirt tier

    And i meant by comparison..

    Actually i STATED by comparison
    No...

    Thats not what im saying at all

    All im saying is that SM amping BM doesnt move nearly as far as people like you think it does

    And as shown in the manga

    SHOULD SM on top of BM equate to a huge boost? Yeah sure, never denied that, im just saying thats not the case for some lolplot reasons on kishis part
    Not what im saying either
    No it doesnt

    Very clearly retconned and MASSIVELY inconsistent
    Its SHOWN to be

    But you clearly dont wanna see that or we wouldnt be having this conversation
    :lmao

    Which their avatars were :lmao

    ... ...Not the TSBs as thats literally impossible due to their NE amps...
     
  10. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    No you stated that NE amp does not move BM at all and only gave him ability to bypass TSB and damage Juubito.

    Which is not true, If SM does not move BM tier wise then Base Hashirama = SM Hashirama.

    And Base Hashirama > EMS Madara/Kurama.

    No it was never shown its dirt tier, after NE amp Both Naruto and Sasuke were fighting Juubito on their own.

    So Juubito slamming them into ground creates more power then Juubi laser? lol. And that carter was barely even mountain sized.

    NE counters TSB it was never stated NE user completely immune to TSB effects, They were grabbed by TSB which is what weakened both KA and Susanoo.
     
  11. Mindovin Well-Known Member

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    SM amps, Kurama Chakra amps, BSM combining the two, so;
    BSM>BM>9-Tails CM>SM
    I don't know how high is the power difference but it's pretty damn high with every amp from the previous form.
     
  12. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    SM gave Spirit Power to Susanoo by synching with it. Sasuke is compatible to the SusanOO so equationally The Guardian Spirit Deity should be like Kyuubi Spirit synched with Naruto SM. Durability/Power wasnt increased. It deterred the effects of Gudodama. But couldnt deter the effects of Sage Weapon: Nunoboku No Sword which is a divine/deitical/heavenly/godly Sword because its a God Weapon which relied on Obito Emotions/Will which was upto sub par.
     
  13. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    No I didn't

    I said the user doesnt move TIER WISE

    Meaning...

    BM naruto is pseudo god tier...And BSM doesnt make him jump to God tier

    Stop putting fucking words in my mouth and actually attempt to understand what I write before you type up a reply
    Because that is all it visibly does

    Otherwise he would have vastly outperformed Minato and Sasuke

    And he doesn't
    Yes it is

    Open your eyes
    No kid

    Stop using horrendous logic and not following the point if youre gonna try to have a discussion with me please

    Im beginning to think you dont know what a tier is
    Yes it was

    The amp clearly affects BM Naruto less that it did Base Naruto when he used it against pain

    He jumps SEVERAL tiers with SM back then, and barely moves when he uses BM+SM

    Its just how things played out in the manga

    Im not saying it makes sense
    You just debunked yourself within the same sentence you introduced your premise :mjlol

    That takes talent kid :lmao

    Yes clearly

    Otherwise Naruto would have tanked the dropslam with his super ultra awesome mega SM amped BSM avatar wouldn't he :lmao

    Guess you also missed the part where it was stated MULTIPLE TIMES and shown MULTIPLE times that JJ Obito was on a different level of power than just the Juubi because he could focus its energy better :kermit
    Lol all the fuck you want kid youre the one blatantly in the wrong here
    Ah i forgot

    You dont know the difference between "AoE" and "Attack Potency" in fiction

    And for some asinine reasons think they directly scale from one another

    No time for this "argument" bud
    Yes it does :lmao

    Otherwise Gamakichis slime attack would have been nullified on contact :lmao

    Another massive point in the war arc you missed i see :lmao

    And no, before you put words in my mouth im not saying NE makes one completely invincible against anything a TSB can do, im saying NE makes their ninjutsu invincible against Yin/Yang nullification...Because it does
    Nope
     
  14. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Base Minato >>>> Base Minato, meaning the same applies to their BM. Therefore, it's pretty much abvious that Senjutsu made him several times stronger.
     
  15. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    God tier = When you have Rikudou chakra.

    SM can make BM 10 times stronger but he will never be god tier because he does not have Rikudou chakra.

    SM does not move BM? Cosmos posted this...
    Retsu no Sho about BSM:

    "Borrowing an enormous amount of Chakra from Kurama, who has been sealed in his body, Naruto exhibits overwhelming power. By activating Sage Mode, his sensory capabilities and the strength of his Ninjutsu are significantly increased...!!"

    'significant'

    CS amp makes Sasuke 10 times stronger so Senjutsu Susanoo is 10 times stronger then non-senjutsu one, which is only data we have to CS increase, Its inconsistent? Yes, but it also a manga fact.

    Obito destroying BSM Avatar and Senjutsu Susanoo was simply an out liner you can scream "Attack potency" all you want but having power greater then juubi does not make Obito's drop slam country tier... Not when we also have something like TSB holding them.

    Hell Madara's susanoo was getting destroyed by laser attacks then juubi beam.

    As fictions are inconsistent = 'AoE' and 'Attack Potency' are dumb calculations, because science does not agree with 'Attack potency' garbage and it ignores conservation of energy, 'Attack Potency' = Nerds making sense out of nonsense.

    Naruto is not even like DBZ where it was stated that characters can control DC of their attacks or use country level attack without destroying countries.

    So in Naruto crater + explosion = power.
    Bigger crater + Bigger explosion = More power

    Until stated other wise by author himself.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  16. Azula .

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    That's no way to judge between the two. The difference will only emerge if they are dealing with someone whose strength lies in between the two. Obito is way stronger than both of them.

    It's like saying Madara with susanoo is the same toughness as Muu because they both got crushed by meteor.

    SM amp is a constant thing, not a single character or jutsu has not gotten amp. We get Tobirama saying Naruto will surpass Hashirama at the exact same moment when Naruto starts adding senjutsu to Bijuudama.
     
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