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So Ultra Instinct > God Ki ?

Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by Erkan12, Oct 12, 2017 at 2:47 PM.

  1. Erkan12 Ultra

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    It has been mentioned that even the God of Destructions having trouble in gaining the mastery of Ultra Instinct state. Considering all of them mastered the God Ki, it's obvious that ''Ultra Instinct'' is the next level for them.

    But what's Ultra Instinct ? Is that simply a technique? I don't believe so. No technique would provide this kind of power-up. It's much better than even Kaioken, which should be a form itself.

    Let's discuss about the nature of Ultra Instinct ;

    Gohan said ''He's not just fast, I couldn't even sense him moving to attack at all.''

    Gives the user ;

    - Undetectable attack power
    - Ultimate accuracy
    - Ultimate dodge skill
    - Ultimate balance
    - Ultimate Ki ?

    What kind of Ki Ultra Instinct has ? Roshi states that his energy is ''frighteningly calm'', it's obvious this state is not only a technique, it's also the transformation of the energy / Ki...

    Tien said that ''he is emitting a tremendous amount of heat, but...'' , and then both Whis and Jiren said that ''the heat'' was the major weakness of Goku. So the first stage of Ultra Instinct has a lot of drawbacks, and the heat is tiring the user. As far as I understand you don't emit the heat when you completely master this form and you would only gain that frighteningly calm energy.
     
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  2. GARcher

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  3. Blade Well-Known Member

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    to have those skills, Goku must be the strongest

    and he isn't :trinny

    the UI is just a state that surpasses GoD levels [especially mastered] and probably is also a form of the fighting style of the Angels
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 3:11 PM
  4. Jake CENA BAH GAWD KING, IT'S JAKE CENA!!

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    all the heat and sweat coming out of Goku's body is also a drawback. he smells like rotten onions for sure.
     
  5. Tenma Peace through Tyranny

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    God Ki is probably a requirement to learn UI judging by the fact it isn't a technique mortals are supposed to know.
     
  6. Gordo solos David "Gordo" Gordon

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    Ultra Instinct is a technique that Angels mastered. So yes
     
  7. Hazard Black♤

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    God ki is energy.
    UI is a technique/a way of moving.
     
  8. Luiz Well-Known Member

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    I think UI Goku still uses god ki.
     
  9. Nep Nep Bedpost-Kun

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    Possible but it could also simply be that someone has to know it's an actual thing.

    You wouldn't try to fly, cause you know it's impossible. I doubt prior to Whis Goku ever thought it would be possible to dodge without thought or effort.

    Also for the thread in general...

    Ultra instincts effectiveness is entirely dependent on the speed of the user so it is not inherently "better" than God ki, especially since they are compatible abilities that work well together.
     
  10. RedChidori Swaggin Assassin

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  11. The Strawberry Carrot Top Bow down to the king

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    The gods were shocked that a mortal acquired ui. I don't think it means it's > god ki. I believe ui and god ki go hand in hand or can.
     
  12. RedChidori Swaggin Assassin

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    I agree with you totally
     
  13. The Strawberry Carrot Top Bow down to the king

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    Thank you.
     
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  14. RedChidori Swaggin Assassin

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    no prob
     
  15. Weiss dog = god

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    ^ this
     
  16. Erkan12 Ultra

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    If that was true Roshi wouldn't sense the difference on Goku's energy. It's frighteningly calm. No technique would change the users aura / energy. Not even Kaioken which multiplies the power. Tien also said he is emitting a tremendous amount of heat. Also without the change on his Ki, Gohan would still sense his attacks as he says, but it's undetectable for everyone who isn't Jiren / Angels / GoD.
     
  17. xenos5 Objectionable Objection

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    Mastered Ultra Instinct>Unmastered Ultra Instinct>=Hakai no enerugī(energy of destruction)>>>>>>>>>>>God Ki
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM
  18. Gogeta Shape shifter

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    UI is a technique

    But this new form is what allowed him to use UI

    I think this is the best (occam's razor) explanation for whats going on.


    He didnt have the form mastered so he couldnt keep using it, thus he couldnt use UI
     
  19. Erkan12 Ultra

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    God Ki isn't a form either. You're either a god or not. But somehow Goku gained / learned the God Ki, with that he has transformed into SSG and SSB.

    Ultra Instinct isn't a form for the Gods, just as God Ki isn't. But it's a transformation for Goku. Because UI is something beyond the power of the Gods. For that reason Goku was emitting a heat and his energy changed a lot.
     
  20. xenos5 Objectionable Objection

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    Gods of destruction can learn it though. It's just very hard for them to do so.

    There may be gods of destruction who do already know it (maybe from the four exempt universes).
     
  21. Juub R.I.P.

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    Of course he would because a technique still manipulates the Ki which is what Ultra instinct does. It's a state where the user's body is in perfect harmony with the mind. As a result the user can react to things without thinking. It doesn't actually multiply the user's PL or anything. Goku had his potential unlocked apparently and this allowed him to tap into Ultra Instinct.

    A better explanation would be that a minimum level of power is required to even use UI. Not that it powers up the user.
     
  22. Erkan12 Ultra

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    A technique = Instant Transmission or Kienzan or Time Skip, etc.

    It's not the change of the users energy. Can you tell me what Super Saiyan changes? The power level of the user, and the hair color.

    Goku changed his power level, he changed his aura / energy and he changed his eye color. Goku didn't name it yet, but he will.

    If Gohan's Ultimate form is a transformation, then Goku's Ultra Instinct is a transformation too. Gohan in Ultimate form isn't changing anything but his hair style. Goku changed his energy form, and he changed his eye color.
     
  23. Juub R.I.P.

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    So I suppose Kaioken isn't a technique?
     
  24. Erkan12 Ultra

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    Kaioken multiplies the users power. It's not changing the type of energy.
     
  25. Juub R.I.P.

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    Ultra Instinct isn’t a new type of energy either unless I missed something. It’s simply that Goku exhudes an incredibly calm aura despite the tremendous power which was unlocked because of the Genki-Dama event and not Ultra Instinct. Unlocking his potential allowed him to use Ultra Instinct. They’re two different things and not mutually exclusive. The massive power boost isn’t from Ultra Instinct.
     
  26. Erkan12 Ultra

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    Yes it's. Goku never used that level of calm energy before. The power comes from a different type of energy. Just like SSG and SSB. Genki Dama and Jiren was the trigger, just like Hit was the trigger for Kaioken & SSB combination.

    Goku had the reach a new level for using the Ultra Instinct, that heat was the drawback of his new form, just like SSB it does tire the body too much. You think he can use Ultra Instinct without transforming his energy into something else and without changing his eye color into silver? I think not.
     
  27. Juub R.I.P.

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    Maybe but that energy isn’t Ultra Instinct. Ultra Instinct is the technique that new energy unlocked. As I mentioned before, there’s a chance Ultra Instinct is available only to those who reach a certain level of power which is what Goku unlocking his potential allowed.

    The powerful Ki isn’t Ultra Instinct. Ultra Instinct is the fluidity of the movements and being able to react without thinking. It IS a technique.
     
  28. Erkan12 Ultra

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    The confusion comes from here ;

    - Ultra Instinct is a technique it can't be a form.

    Basically this is true, but only if you're a god. Goku isn't a god. He needs to transform to attain this power. And he did. Without this calm energy and silver eyes transformation, he can't use it. Just like without SSG and SSB transformations, he can't use the God Ki because he isn't a God.

    Whis only mentioned this to Goku and Vegeta, because they could use SSB form, Ultra Instinct is only a technique that can be used by the gods and not all of them can master it. Which is why Goku needs to transform beyond SSB.
     
  29. Juub R.I.P.

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    Don’t know if it can be used just by GoD’s. Actually I don’t think it’s the case because Jiren might have it.

    My hypothesis is it’s a technique so difficult to do the user will have attained godhood way before Ultra Instinct so in that case, GoD like power is almost a prerequisite. Not that it is but one will almost inevitably be in the realm of the GoD’s in terms of power before being able to use UI.

    Basically you’re saying it’s a technique only available to those with the power of a GoD?
     
  30. Roman B***h I'm adorable

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    The way I see it, UI is a state of mind and not at all a transformation. Bear in mind what Whis said. Goku's source of power was the spirit bomb itself. What powered it? Frieza. 17. 18. Gohan, Piccolo, and the rest of the U7 roster. All fighters ranging between at least universal to at least large planet level. Goku had taken in a part of the power belonging to all of these powerful fighters. That by itself would not have been enough to make Goku strong enough to match Jiren for that brief period by Whis's own statement, but UI allowed Goku to bridge that gap even further.

    Say for instance that Krillin somehow obtained mastery of UI. Jiren would've still destroyed the shit out of him because he outclasses him in terms of speed and power by a ridiculous degree. So no, I wouldn't say UI exceeds god Ki. Not at all in fact.
     
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