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Some of my queries

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Maverick04, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Maverick04 Susanoo's nose is a waste of Chakra

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    1.


    Susanoo is basically just the user's chakra taking physical form..None of the known Susanoo users have anywhere near Bijuu level chakra..So can a rinnegan user say Nagato, who casually absorbed Bee's V2 cloak off even better than Samehada, absorb something like a perfect susanoo??


    2.





    Apparently Sasuke with his newly acquired and unmastered CS1 form was able to dodge a sound blast casually..So what does that say about other characters who were quite superior to Sasuke at that point in the series?? Are most of them capable of moving at mach speed or faster?

    3. Are all the Sannins really on the same level?? I've seen multiple people make such arguments which always puzzles me.

    4. Does Amaterasu have a trajectory or does it just spawn on the target?? And if there is a trajectory, pls do post the panel where it is shown.. coz from what we've seen, Amaterasu doesn't really have any trajectory..When Itachi used against Sasuke, his vision was blurry and couldn't focus on the target..And what feats do we use for Amaterasu?? At one point it was able to burn through the unescapable toad mouth trap and make BM Bee cry..And there's the other instance where it didn't even burn through the Samurai's armor..Does that mean Samurai armor is more durable that BM Bee and toad mouth trap??

    5. How is Tobirama high Kage??
    :oldshrug
     
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  2. Silnaem Nothing for Wisdom

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    1. Yes

    2. Go to the Outskirts Baatledome. They explain scaling very well. Regarding your question tho, the answer is yes, they move faster than whatever Sasuke was moving at.

    3. Overall, yes. At least that was the plan Kishi had. However, as seen multiple times in the manga, either his superiors or his own desires made him change things such that they became unbalanced (mainly Oro with ET). For example, Tsunade doesn't have a proper SM even tho the others do (Sage Regions, so we can assume Kishi planned it). Then take into account that he said he wanted Tsunade to fight Pein (his superiors told him to choose Naruto) and its likely she would've showcased her sage mode during the Pein Arc.
    So, on one side, some (Tsunade) was nerfed while others (Oro) was made OP. Even then, I'd say they're overall very close as they have different strengths, but in specific scenarios they can be far apart.

    4. I think it spawns on target but I'm no expert on its movement.

    5. Depends on how strict your tier list is.
    I have Tsunade as the top of Leader (mid kage) tier due to how she perfectly embodies that tier, but her level IMO is Master (high kage). Now I have Tobirama below her in a direct comparison, but I put him at the bottom of Master tier since I rate Tsunade there.
    As for his qualities, I dof think he has impressive abilities as a kage, but he did share a battlefield with Madara and defeated his brother (who was equal to Madara, by statements) so that's massive hype. I can't put him too high tho because his tools list is quite lacking.
    So the answer is that its his hype and feats (tho we don't know much about said feats, besides that they happened) that puts him at Master (high kage) tier, tho his abilities are quite lacking on paper.
     
  3. Charmed <img src= "https://i.imgur.com/oPfvFAH.gif">

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    Interesting, I say yes.

    Yes they are faster, for example Gated CE Lee was supersonic already, but he was still slow for a Jonin.
    Kinda, the only one that is above them is Oro and that's only because he has Edo Tensei.
    Tsunade is not warrior type, though IMO, she was the strongest Sannin in her Prime, back in the 2nd War that is while Jiraiya was the weakest.

    trajectory.

    Mostly couse he's an older and more experienced Minato with Senju chakra, and he actually created powerful jutsu, I think...
     
  4. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    1. What are you asking? You just said Nagato absorbed something bigger than Susano'o to ask if it can absorb something the size of Susano'o?

    2. I doubt his jutsu was really at the speed of sound. Tayuya's genjutsu, as well, doesn't travel at the speed of sound. Otherwise, there would be essentially no travel time and anyone would instantly be hit by it.

    3. Generally, yes. All have base stats above elite jonin. The difference is the ceiling for each of them since they have completely different powers.

    4. It travels as chakra and turns into black flames upon hitting the target. Pretty much the same way genjutsu travels in the air to hit someone. It's as powerful as the plot requires it to be. Since it was a MS jutsu introduced very early, the plot requires it be nerfed so it can job for whatever MS jutsu are revealed after it.

    5. FTG and Senju vitality. He'd still be coming at you even after you took two of his limbs off. Edo Tensei are approximations of living bodies. If injuries would incapacitate a living person, those same injuries would incapacitate them as an Edo before their healing activated. Tobirama could spit water needles at Madara while nailed to the ground because Tobirama actually has the mettle to do that. While other Edos were paralyzed from lesser injuries.
     
  5. Maverick04 Susanoo's nose is a waste of Chakra

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    I wanted to know whether this argument can be used if Nagato is pit up against someone like EMS Madara??

    Well thats why I asked..Since Sasuke didnt get hit instantly, it's a possibility that he was moving atleast as fast as speed of sound..All three sound ninjas used sound based jutsus so it's only fair to assume that it travels at the speed of sound..Moreover Kishimoto had to show some effects for the jutsu.
     
  6. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Wood dragon whose absorption capactiy is the same as Gakidou (ie: Gakidou&wood dragon clash in the manga) can't absorb Susan'oo, therefore Gakidou can't either giving the fact Nagato's Gakidou can't possibly be stronger than Madara's even after absorbing Bee's V2.
    Gakidou as a technique is simply not on par with Susano'o and that's it.

    I don't think he dodged sound blast but rather he moved to Zaku's back faster than his eye can see before he could launch his technique.
    Dosu clearly stated that even a shinobi like Lee can't dodge sound level of speed, so...

    In the first Databook, Jiraya was displayed as someone whose strengh is equal to Orochimaru : " ", Tsunade wasn't noted for the simple reason she wasn't yet introduced in the manga.
    the in the second Databook, the sannin were realized are equal beings multiple times :
    Spoiler: through their summons

    The massive slug summoned by Tsunade. Her polite speech and obedient attitude give a strong impression of maturity. However, her true strength is anticipated to be considerable. Katsuyu’s true strength… It can be guessed her fighting on an equal footing with Gamabunta and Manda, the summoned creatures of the other “Sannin”.

    Plus the usage of multiple statements such as : "Jiraiya: Serious but deadly eyes! Are the only ones who can fight against the Sannin the Sannin themselves?".
    And the title of the chapter in which they fought in P1, .
    Overall, I think they really are equal.

    Amaterasu doesn't have a travercoty it just spawn on the tarjet as explained by Cee and Itachi vs Sasuke fight. Enton in other hands allows the user to throw the black flames like projectiles (ie: Sasuke vs white Zetsu fight and Gaara vs Sasuke in the Kage summit).
     
  7. WorldsStrongest Umu

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    You can make an argument that Susanoo cant be absorbed due to its clashes with Mokuton which is a God tier (or near enough) absorption or chakra fuckery technique

    Madara wraps it around Kurama for the express purpose of his chakra nor being drained, wouldnt make sense to do if susanoo can just be drained along with kuramas chakra on top of that...Madara would just be shooting himself in the foot and wasting excess energy there

    Also when Madaras PS meets a mokuryu head on, its chakra isnt affected or drained in any way

    And thats really it in terms of susanoo encountering chakra absorbing techniques in the manga

    Its certainly plausible that it can resist absorption due to some innate property, but its also equally possible that susanoo gets absorbed like everything else yes
    Yes...

    Naruto characters are EONS faster than sound by the war arc

    Naruto and Sasuke vs JJ madara has been calculated at something like Mach 3000 in some instances
    No they arent

    If youre asking n terms of Combat ability and who they can and cant 1v1 anyway, Tsunade is FAR lower than the other two

    In terms of 1v1 ability...

    Jman>=Oro>Tsunade

    Excluding Part 2 ET




    How isnt he?

    FTG, ET, Clone game, Half the reserves of Hashirama, ridiculous physical speed and reaction time enough to throw down with JJs, allegedly top tier in an element, killed an MS user on par with Madara in 1v1 combat

    Required 2 V2 Jins of Kurama and 20 other high ranking Nin from Kumo to take him down on his lonesome...And given the guy just got off of a mission with his comrades, its likely he was fatigued

    Hell that whole thing was PIS anyway, all he had to do was mark Sarutobi or Danzo and port to them at the last second once ha had stalled Kumo for long enough :catshrug
     
  8. The_Conqueror Well-Known Member

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    Egypt, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Serbia, Russia, Portugal, , Germany, France, , Denmark, Croatia, Belgium, Uruguay, Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, Iran, Australia, Panama, Mexico, Costa Rica, Tunisia, Senegal, Nigeria, Morocco, , Poland
    So does minato marking susanoo also means minato marks itachi. :tupac
     
  9. walpurgis Burgoo ohtanishoheiohtanishoheiohtanishohei

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    1 yes

    2 speed is not a consistent mechanic nor was it meant to be

    3 subjective question. hype is hype. its not mathematics.

    4 it can be used both ways

    5 nonsensical query
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  10. BlackHeartedImp Active Member

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    Bold is false, Madara and Sasuke exist. As for the question, I don't believe they can. We know gakido can absorb large amounts of chakra, but Madara's susanoo has met another chakra absorption technique and was none worse for the wear.
    Yes. It would be unreasonable to assume otherwise, even though speed wasn't really a focus for any characters besides the known speedsters (Lee, Gai, Minato, Ay, etc)
    Yes, they are. They're not all exactly as powerful as the other, but they can be placed in the same tier and not be out-of-place relative to the other members. Tsunade might be at the bottom of the barrel, but she's not weak, just not as strong. Team 7 has the same dynamic where the male members are significantly stronger, but the female can stand alongside them as a legendary ninja.
    Amaterasu is supposed to spawn on the target in the Uchiha's eyesight, but it doesn't appear to spawn instantaneously. If one knows it's coming, they can either dodge (in the case of Ay), escape (in the case of Bee), or protect themselves (in the case of Naruto). Regarding the feats, generally I use the higher-end feats since that's how amaterasu is portrayed throughout the manga and there's not much to contradict it and make them outliers. Recall Sakura's punch to Kaguya. It was established that Sakura is next to useless in direct combat with Juubi jins, yet she landed a decisive blow. No one scales her to that since literally everything else contradicts that display. Same logic applies to amaterasu imo.
    Same reason Minato is high kage. You can't make EMS Sasuke sweat if you're not at least around that level.
     
  11. walpurgis Burgoo ohtanishoheiohtanishoheiohtanishohei

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    sakuras punch on kaguya his not a contradiction, outlier, plothole or inconsistency
     
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  12. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    How do you explain it if it wasn't for these assumptions ?
     
  13. walpurgis Burgoo ohtanishoheiohtanishoheiohtanishohei

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    explain what? a dramaic interception?
    there was nothing ''decisive'' about it either...
     
  14. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    in terms of tiers of speed :
    Tier 1 : god tiers
    Tier 2 : BSM Naruto
    Tier 3 : KCM Naruto, V2 Ei, Minato, etc
    Tier 4 : Hebi Sasuke, etc
    Tier 5 : Sakura
    one tier difference means the one in the tier above can fodderizes the one in the tier below without even moving a single muscle and Sakura is at least 4 tiers below the likes of Kaguya. Therefore, giving her mental level of reactions, she can't even participate in a god level combo, she is bascially like a civilian based on feats (and also hype).
     
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  15. BlackHeartedImp Active Member

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    "Nothing decisive"
    Literally impedes Kaguya from escaping and ultimately leads to her getting sealed
    :ohlord
     
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  16. The Death & The Strawberry The Death & The Strawberry lives on

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    Lol wut? Gakido is literally the epitome of chakra absorption, anything that isn't PS isn't somehow portrayed to be on another level to it.

    Madara's chakra was at least comparable to Hashi's as he was able to fight him for multiple days, I'd say his chakra far dwarfs that of a V2 chakra cloak. Even then the problem with PS is its size. Bee's V2 cloak is no bigger than his body while Perfect Susanoo is comparable to a bjuii in size. The least Preta could do is absorb the chakra of the Perfect Susanoo within in the barrier, but that's about it. Shits too big and has too much chakra.

    mach speed isn't really that impressive though, at worst it says any faster than Cs Sasuke is faster than sound :hm

    Battlewise? No, but Tsunade's supplementary support far dwarfs Jiraiya's and Orochimaru's, which even them out.

    If I recall Cee outright stated and explained the mechanics, the databook did so as well. Amaterasu at a certain distance appears on the focal point of the users LOS high instantly, but if said distance increases it becomes kind of like a projectile hence why Bee was able to visibly see and block it with his tentacle
    Tell me this

    WHat mid kage do you know that can tag Juubito multiple times before he finishes his blitz? What Mid kage do you know that can last even 2 seconds and almost even land a hit against Rinnegan sm Madara, whilst being specifically stated to be brought back WEAKER? He ain't no mid kage bruv, even Madara himself established that he only stomped himself so badly because he was brought back stronger while Tobirama was brought back weaker.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  17. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    How can a person LOL dodge Amaterasu without it having any trajectory ? Even if Ay knew it is coming, how does he know in what way to dodge and when exactly to move ? Even if it isnt instantaneous, something that just appears at a spot without a traveling path would be unavoidable without just randomly moving around hoping that it doesnt spawn on you. So I will disagree because there is no logic in this.
     
  18. BlackHeartedImp Active Member

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    We have the same stance but I worded it terribly. That's why I said "supposed to spawn" as in it doesn't always. We can see it traveling to Bee and literally chasing Sasuke.
     
  19. Buuhan Hokage of the Six Paths

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    - that’s a question with a more subjective answer. In theory nagato should have no real issue absorbing a chakra construct given he drained v2 bee in mere moments. Real world battles however tell us something different. If susanoo could be drained Hashirama would’ve most likely employed the tactic to stop madara, but as far as we have seen it never happened. In theory it’s a yes, but in practice it’s a no.

    - Speed in most works of fiction is not really something portrayed with a specific number or range throughout a series not including specific characters. In naruto outside of the big speedsters such as lee, Gai, minato, and tha raikages were never really given a true interpretation of numbers. Therefore like in other verses the process of power scaling through feats should give us a general area of where their speed stands with real world numbers. To answer your question yes.

    - the sannin are more or less equals when all their abilities are taken into account. They’re not all however equals in combat with each having advantages over the others in specific areas. There’s a reason they have a deadlock where all three equal each other out. This is of course not counting ET.

    - Amaterasu seemingly has a trajectory and one case helps show this extremely well. When sasuke aimed it at the raikage he dodged it. If Ama was indeed instantaneous in the idea that it spawns onto a target, the sasuke should’ve hit the raikage. A move like that shouldn’t have been dodged, but it was leading to one explanation. Also there are things known as low end and high end feats. It’s clear kishi nerfed AMA after he realized how powerful a problem it would be given it’s an MS ability. We can’t use it’s higher end feats and ignore its weaker showings.

    - FTG, ET, tagging a jj of all beings, has half the chakra of Hashirama, Is a Senju, is hyped to be the most powerful suiton user, took out MS Izuna who was on par with MS Madara, and he wasn’t even at his strongest when he was an edo. IIRC also he was hyped to be the strongest kage during his time. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t be.
     
  20. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    If PS stepped on Nagato it would just be missing it's lower leg. No he can't just suck the whole thing away.

    Yep. For instance Gaara can block explosions before they land. C4 in real life explodes at 26,400 fps or 8,050 meters per second. Sound is 1,125 fps or 343 meters per second. 8050÷343= 23.5 x the speed of sound. So Gaara's sand has to move faster than that to block such things on the fly.
    Same with the Kamui that put Kakashi in the hospital. Which makes sense.
    They are all the same level of threat to most shinobi. Match ups do exist though.

    One of them showing up drastically changes a battle by about the same amount.
    Konoha is the strongest village before Orochimaru's Konoha Crush Plan, and they still were getting mushroom stamped by boss snakes until Jiraiya showed up.


    ET, Remote healing, or toad shenanigans all have game changers.

    It follows the focal point and moves accordingly but it does extend from the eye and isn't instant.
    A super fast guy who is great at Kenjutsu, considered the same level as Madara and Izuna, has unkillable exploding soldiers that he can teleport, who uses shadow clones, and typically strikes when an opponent thinks they have won.
     
  21. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    Kakuzu noted that he did not heard sound of Raikiri when Kakashi hit him in chest.

    And Kakuzu was impressed.

    If they are so faster then sound even as a genin then why Kakuzu was impressed when Kakashi moved faster then Raikiri's sound?

    Then SM Naruto taking 5 sec to reach pein.

    If they are so hypersonic then why SM Naruto was worrying about Deva paths 5 second intervals?

    It like calling goku light speed when he dodged laser as a kid.
     
  22. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Epitome ? I won't call it so before Momoshiki's ability.
    Furthermore, its portrayal as a Rinnegan technique doesn't come close to Deva path powers who far surpasses the others.
    Featwise, it tied with a human sized wood dragon who can't absorb V3 Susano'o, not even slightly, so...
     
  23. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    Technically, yes.
    Kishi is just inconsistent. So no.
    They're all on the same level including they're supportive ability and usefulness, which is what makes Tsunade catch up to the two.
    Amaterasu is nigh-instantaneous, it can be dodged if: 1. The target anticipates it's release (Sasuke, A) 2. Target shunshins in time.

    Enton is what is moving Amaterasu, it is basically the ability to manipulate Amaterasu's shape and movement. Samurai armour isn't necessarily more durable because the Samurai would have died had he not been saved by Temari, the Hachibi also was engulfed in a huge Amaterasu.
    Tobirama's FTG isn't as impressive as Minato's but he's definitely been portrayed as smarter and more tactical.
     
  24. Bonly Tailless Tailed Beast

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    1) If the user of PS just stood there and did nothing then eventually Preta path could prolly absorb it.

    2) Sure why not.

    3) Yes no matter how butthurt people wanna get, all three of them are on the same lvl which was shown multiple times throughout the manga and Databook. At least that's what I would say before the war arc and Orochi got his Edo Tensei back, now he blows them out the water lol but without it yeah they are equal.

    4a) Ama spawns on the target and it can have a trajectiory if moved which we see when Itachi used it to chase down Sasuke.

    4b) As for which feats to use it depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to downplay the Uchiha's feats like quite a few here then you'll want to use nothing but the worst showing and ignore any good feats as if they magically never happened like the downplayers/haters do. If you're looking to be biased in favor of the Uchiha feats then ignore any bad feat and only go with the good ones. If you want to be unbiased which seems to be rare, then you'll look at both the good and bad and come to a happy medium like you're suppose to.

    Or you can differentiate the feats between the users and then go with the above. Although if you want to be like alot of the downplayers/haters then you'll have to become an idiot and say "hurr durr same jutsu means same feats!!!" and ignore that this logic is laughably flawed. Then when someone says "oh ok so does that means Minato's Rasengans feats are transferable to part one Naruto's feats since hurr durr same jutsu, for example?" you come up with a crapload of excuses why it doesn't count despite the fact that by your own logic, that would be the case no matter what. Then you'll sit here and get mad that your point has no ground but go on to ignore it.

    5) Because he's portrayed to be that lvl with his feats and hype
     
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