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Speed... A way to beat Logias?

Discussion in 'One Piece Harbour' started by Hitotsumami, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Hitotsumami

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    So, this came to me.

    As far as I know, Logia's have the ability to become, create, and control their element.

    However, they have to activate the ability to become their element. For example, Crocodile had to activate his ability to become sand when Luffy threw a few punches in their first round. It was instant.

    So, if you're fast enough, and can deliver enough damage within the first few seconds of a fight before the Logia can activate their ability, then you would have a chance of winning.

    This could explain how Gear 2nd is all Luffy needs to defeat a few Logias.

    For example, we'll use Aokiji (even though I don't think Luffy can beat Aokiji now ).

    If Luffy starts off immediatley with Jet Gattling in Gear 2nd, that may be fast enough for Aokiji to not realize what happened, and not be able to concentrate and use his ability.

    And in the split second Aokiji is falling to the ground, Luffy could come with a Jet Pistol, or any other attack. ( As a note, after the second attack of Gear 2nd from Luffy, I'm pretty sure Aokiji would catch on and win pretty easily ).

    Anyway, what I'm getting at is, Speed may be the key to defeating Logias.
     
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  2. omg laser pew pew!

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    Nice point but after what Enel did, I always thought that their body was in a state between physical and their element and that only a water-based liquid could change them into their physical body
     
  3. Masaki

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    When will people understand that water, not the sea, only works on Crocodile (and Ace).
     
  4. Mugiwara Luffy

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    Wait, what if they activated their elemental form before the battle started? One Piece characters always seem to talk a lot before battles.
     
  5. Nihonjin

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    I think its automatic <_<
     
  6. ez

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    it's not automatic otherwise Smoker and Ace wouldn't have been hit

    The way Luffy spoke when he fought Blueno gave me the idea that speed > logias a while back, I talked about it somewhere but I forget now :eek:
     
  7. Kisame

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    that was for comical purposes.

    Its like saying Goku has to activate his superstrength otherwise chichi would break her frying pan trying to hit him.

    You really think they have to activate there power when its shown that they are that element?

    thats why enel could go to sleep and still become it and no matter how hard luffy tried with his unorthodox techniques he could never harm smoker or Crocodile(until he used water and blood)
     
  8. Loki

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    Its said,In the world,speed is the key to win.
     
  9. Code

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    Well as someone stated, it seemed for more comical purpose. As we later see Ace handing a marine a letter, while a large group of them are shooting him from behind (him seemingly not paying attention), and it just passes right through him.

    Another possibility is that we know that Smoker and Ace's elements affect each other, so the fact that they were in contact could have to do with it, but again, it just seemed like a comedy moment and pretty much goes against every single other time we've seen that logia ability without the specific weakness being exploited.
     
  10. Geou

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    All I have to say is this: why would Oda bother mentioning that Crocodile had perfected his devil fruit ability so that turning into sand was a reflex, if that automatically happens?
     
  11. Kisame

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    Idk

    But what I do know is that logias arent in totally human form. if they get hit they turn into there element. That happens other than the one time luffy did it to smoker and Ace.
     
  12. Hitotsumami

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    I wonder why Smoker's hand didn't become smoke when Dragon grabbed it.
     
  13. Code

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    I don't recall him saying that, he said that, and did an attack that turned a large part of the area into a quicksand. As opposed to the whole reflect deal, that has happened many chapters before in succession (and the previous chapter for nearly the entire chapter...).

    He grabbed the baton.
     
  14. Geou

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    Didn't Ace catch that guy's sword?

    Yeah, sorry, I don't really get what you said there. Something about him turning an entire place to quicksand, but in a previous chapter, a person turned into their element whenever being hit?
     
  15. Kisame

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    you must be talking about filler,, I dont watch the anime.


    Anyway its obvious they can hold what they want to hold.
    But any physical contact that would result in harm makes the logia turn into the element.
     
  16. Geou

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    I didn't realize it was filler. The more you know. :amuse

    Anyway, I think someone in this thread said something about people shooting at Ace while he was eating, and the bullets passed through him... where was that? That's the only evidence that seems to truly say that Logias turn into their elements automatically, unless Ace somehow improved his Devil Fruit abilites drastically.
     
  17. Code

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    click right hur.
    Well he wasn't eaten.

    The I don't see how something like that would be the only evidence that indicates they turn into their elements automatically, the fact that they always turn it into it automatically save for when their specific weakness was expoited, seem to indicates that's the case.
     
  18. cygnus

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    IIRC they have to activate it but they can also train so that it is a reflex. They aren't always in that state.
     
  19. ramza85

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    listen guys, the author of OnePiece already said it out clear.

    Oda answered that Crocodile had perfected his devil fruit ability so that turning into sand was a reflex, like what Geou earlier posted.

    You all wanna over rule wat the author said? it do not happen automatically, it must be trained.

    Thus with this being said, speed is one of the few tactics to win logias user...
    You could choose to:
    1.Bring them down before they know what is happening
    2.Use the sea or seastone to weaken and stop their abilities
    3.like the case of eneru, use a countering abilities or element (like heat dials against Aokiji)

    well unless the logias user is always activating his ability, speed is a very likely method of victory over them.
     
  20. Louis-954

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    Sir Crocodile has his Logia ability down to a reflex. He didnt need to activate anything.

    Luffy is pretty well known in the One Piece world now, I doubt any experienced Logia user such as Smoker, Ace, or Ao Kiji would not have there ability activated durning the initial and traditional shit talking before a fight.

    The only way I see beating a Logia is...

    1. Submerging him in the sea. Every DF users common weakness. Smoker nearly drowned this way.
    2. Exploiting the Natural Weakness such as what Luffy did with Crocodile and Eneru.
    3. Suprise attacking them. This is not Luffy's style.

    The last way to hit a Logia is to accidently catch them off guard in a comedy moment such as what happened to Ace and Smoker when he came flying through a retauraunt door.

    As of right now I dont see Luffy defeating any of the current Logia users with his new Gear ability's. I see Luffy fighting equally/more expirienced Paramecia users and a few Zoan's of Lucci caliber and beyond. Or maybe people who dont have DF abilty's at all. Until Luffy can effectively find and consistently use the weakness's in battle with a Logia so that he can put up a fight I dont see Luffy fighting them for a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
  21. Geou

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    Is there any moment at all shown when a less-trained logia such as Smoker or Ace was hit and turned into smoke/fire, but was not prepared at least somewhat? Enel, and Aokiji are clearly exceptional users of their fruit, and most likely are as skilled with it as Crocodile with his.

    After seeing the scan, I think I will stick with my original opinion that into to basically turn in logia mode when being hit it is:

    1. To have trained perfectly, to have it to a reflex.
    2. The normal way.

    EDIT: Nevermind this part. >_>;;
     
  22. Code

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    To put it simlpy, everytime except when Crocodile was wet, and when Enel as hit by rubber.

    It's simply doesn't make sense even. If you have to activate it in the first place, why would say, Enel who does it even when he's not hit, be quick enough to avoid every single one of Luffy's hits? When faster people have simply passed right through. He has mantra no less.

    When was this? I just checked every SBS since the logias were introduced, and skimmed through the Alabasta arc, and nothiing at all was said about that.

    Link removed
    If you're referring to that, with Crocodile saying he's trained with his devil fruit powers, that was after he used his Desert Espada and Luffy said What the...?!" The desert's cut in half...!!!" Nothing about reflect, and there was a pretty lengthy scene much earlier with Vivi trying to him, and the entire previous chapter Luffy tried to hit him, no mention that.

    If you want a text translation of that.

    Luffy makes a reference to that specific comment later, and said that by using the powers in a diffrent way you can become stronger, and he pulls off a new attack. Just as Crocodile said that between two offensive attacks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
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