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Spoiler!!!! 246 A relationship question You know you want to read it.

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Sinta, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. Sinta Member

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    "I promise that's not what I was trying to do I really just wanted to know if people caught something that I didn't.
    The more read however the more it seems to me that the author changed his mind wants ichigo with Inoue is trying to make up for that imbalance that is present. What will happend to Rukia? Well she'll probably have to stop living at Ichigo's house for one thing. That could get awakward"

    When I first started reading Bleach I was surprised at how little there was in displays of attraction between the main characters. I mean that manga is centered around a unique relationship/partnership. (rukia/ichigo) and yet nothing. Even went asked Rukia she felt nothing but friendship for ichigo. Now I know what you are thinking. She was hiding her TRUE feelings but I don't think we have seen ANYTHING that implies that. (in the beginning) We saw a little of Inoue's love (I guess for lack of a better word) towards Ichigo but not enough for it to become an issue. I saw however as the manga progressed really how much Rukia/ichigo/Renji/Inoue/Ishda etc relationship had really progressed. This is also because of many of your wonderful theories and how well all of you analysis their (the characters) situations.

    Now note this I am not trying to reopen the Rukia/Ichigo, Inoue/Ichigo debate (I think i rather see Ichigo with ...........................................................................................Like I'd really tell you. Hehe) What I quoted above is something I actually wrote a couple of weeks ago. It really seemed to me that the writer had created an unequal balance between the characters who were possibly in a love tri-angle (notice I say possible because we have no idea as to the true feelings of Ichigo or Rukia) I don't know if you know anything about creating a love tri-angle but the characters in question (if you want they to have an equal chance) have to have equal treatment. (That is why Hinata and Naruto, not going to happen endless something changes) If they don't and a romance blossoms; the relationship will seem forced and unrealistic. That what lead me to write the above. It really seemed that now that the story has been going on for 5 years the author wants to change Inoue to a serious love interest of ichigo.

    At first it seemed that I was right. Aizen's interest in Inoue's powers, her kidnap, her heart warming good-bye (and yes it was very moving) and Rukia's leaving back to Soul Society. It actually looked like I was going to be forced to agree with those who said that Rukia was being slowly cut out, that the imbalance that the author created is being corrected (meaning Inoue and Ichigo are going to get more development) and they will live happyily ever after. (ok maybe not)

    With this last chapter Renji and Rukia showed up!!! What the hell is that? Seriously!?!?!?

    Now I ask myself......Self!......Is this significant? How does Rukia and Renji affect the mission, affect Ichigo? affect Inoue? Are the fans reading to much into the relationship development? Is that element of romance brushing pass something that is really there or are people looking for something that's just not present? Do I spend too much time thinking about dumb things when I should be reading my Criminal law and Civil proceedure? Yes (At least to the last one) But I digress. How do you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2006
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  2. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

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    in soul society you are allowed to marry more than one person so in the end ichigo will get tatsuki, orihime, yoruichi and rukia in in a harem ending.
     
  3. Sinta Member

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    Ok.....Not exactly what I was looking for but.....
     
  4. Wrath Mourning

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    Sinta, did you by any chance watch the anime and then switch to the manga? Because you said that Orihime's love for Ichigo wasn't much of an issue at the beginning, and that just isn't true. The anime, however, cut almost all of it out (which sadly meant that most of the best moments from the beginning of the manga weren't in the anime).
     
  5. Sinta Member

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    Strangely enough I did! how observate of you. However I have read and re-read the entire manga and yes we saw that Inoue was "crushing" on Ichigo from the very start. (if you have a better word feel free to use that) all I met was that it wasn't real important to the stories development or ichigo's for that matter. Yes, it's important to Inoue's development I understand that but if you look at other anime's like Inuyasha, Full metal Panic etc. You will see that the relationship between the main characters (the male and female couple I dare say) it is often very important to the story. We have a relationship that is very important to the story (rukia and ichigo) which follows the whole "important couple" idea. With that in mind, I must admit I thought they would follow suit in sort romantic manifestation. that's how it seemed would go, at least at the start, but now it's just kind of blended to together. Damn it I am not explainging myself very well. Do you understand what I am trying to say? For a while now focus seemed to be shifting more to Inoue giving many Inoue/Ichigo fans some firepower but with this new chapter it's all getting thrown out of wack again. I don't get it.
    What the hell is he trying to do?
     
  6. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    It's a classic love triangle. The main guy and main girl have a typical love/hate bickering relationship with the secondary girl loving the main guy unrequitedly and feeling sad that she is falling behind. The focus was only shifting to Orihime because her character is becoming more prominent; she is not making any headway in Ichigo's feelings, as it has been made repeatedly clear that Ichigo sees her as a comrade ("nakama") just he and Chad see her and each other.

    One possible direction is that Aizen will use Orihime's jealousy to turn her to the dark side, setting her up to battle Rukia.
     
  7. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

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    its what i'm hoping for, would add an interesting twist into the whole situation.
     
  8. Yak on a Forums Break

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    Oh, I would love that. I want to see Orihime reject Rukia out of existance.:p
     
  9. Sinta Member

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    The problem i have with a love tri-angle argument is that two pieces of our triangle seem to be missing. The only time that Rukia discussed her feelings concerning Ichigo, she said she thought of him as a friend. Futhermore, Ichigo hasn't given us any real indication that he feels anything romantic for Rukia. (he cares for her that's obvious) You would think if the writer was going to set up a love triangle we would have seen it really set up by now. If that's a love triangle it's a crapy one. I mean ichigo when to SS to save Rukai and there wasn't even an freaking embrace! Come on thats just gay. I just don't see a real argument for Rukia and Ichigo. I see a writer that's is trying to make up ground with a character that he has almost push to the back ground! He has all of the sudden made someone who really wasn't that important to the story really important. Does that bug anyone else. (don't mistake me for a Inoue hater I think her character is cute and very amusing) I need someone to save me from my madness. (and hopeful you do it soon I have 3 more cases I have to brief and I am having a hard time concentrating)
     
  10. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    Rukia's denial was made with her phony pretty-schoolgirl voice and smile. It was very unconvincing. Also, as she ran from Ichigo's home, she thought of friendship and love as "useless emotions" that a Shinigami shouldn't feel. That strongly implies that Rukia felt love towards Ichigo, against her own wishes.

    And while there haven't been any blatant displays of affection between Ichigo and Rukia, there has been a lot of subtext and unresolved sexual tension. Ichigo and Rukia's reunions in Soul Society were both very romantic moments in how they were portrayed, and Ichigo let Rukia stay in Soul Society without protest because he wanted her to be happy. Since Rukia's return, Ichigo has been much more uncomfortable around Rukia; especially noteworthy was Ichigo's freaking out when Rukia sat on his bed but not caring when all the other Shinigami did the same. Rukia also goes out of her way to show off to Ichigo: climbing in the 3rd story window instead of entering with the other Shinigami and, just this chapter, stalking Ichigo for hours (her feet were visible with Renji's two chapters ago) so that she could jump in at a dramatic moment.
     
  11. Trias For in the sleep of death...

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    Okay, those are really some good obvervation now... :nod
     
  12. seunosewa Member

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    I can't see Rukia's fet in Chapter 244! Can someone show me please?
     
  13. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    It's right after Ichigo says, "Let's run." It pans back to show Ichigo, Ishida and Chad as tiny figures with a rough oval of shadows around them. The shadows are actually the feet of Rukia and Renji, watching them from the top of a sand dune. This is confirmed in 246 when we are shown a similar shot of their ankles right before they are revealed.
     
  14. seunosewa Member

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    Thanks. But those ovals ... are you sure they are feet? I don't see how they could be. The way it looks to me is as if someone is looking at the scene through a telescope or maybe an irregularly shaped set of eyes. ???
     
  15. Wintermute The Neighborhood Physicist

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    Her thoughts right before Ichigo shows up at Soukyoku are another piece of evidence that she feels something other than just friendship toward Ichigo. In Chapter 150 pg 18-19 she thanks each group of friends in turn, but for Ichigo alone she simply says goodbye. Structural parallelism (or more accurately, the violation thereof) implies a different relationship with Ichigo than with the others mentioned.

    It's Quantum Field Theory that I should be reading, but yes for me as well.
     
  16. Predator Want Some Candy?

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    Im ichiruki all the way.
    and... All through the manga, yea, orhime has liked Ichi, but same with Rukia. it was showed threw the Hollow Arc, threw the Soul Society arc, The GrimJow arc (This is what Im calling the period from leavin ss till before HM... cuz grim was cool and was the badguy and main antagonist) and now we have the HM arc.

    Through all those arcs, Rukia has showed her love... to us... in slight hints, sorta how orhime was in the first few chapters... before she became all to over board with tag teaming and this and that. but yea... She thinks of him constantly. Hell, she knows she doesnt need to check up on Ichigo when he is training... unlike inoue..... She is like...some little girl who hugs someone and the person cannot just get her off... even if he is trying to remove her...

    Orhime, her relationship is noticable, all out. u could tell from very first chap with her in it....>>... unless it is the prototype... where u see ichigoXrukia mostly
     
  17. DarkLordOfKichiku Active Member

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    Well, things are pretty much like Marsala said. True enoguh that there hasn't been any really "open" stuff in terms of Ichigo x Rukia, but then again, it usually is not that way in shonen manga. I don't know if it's the usual "love triangle" in all cases, but in the case that the main girl & guy are the ones in love with each other, it's true indeed that they usually have a sort of "love-hate" relationship, a seen in other shonen manga (Ushio & Tora, Ranma?, Love Hina, etc...) where the main guy & main girl has a relationship like that, and other similiar things, like the fact that whenever the main guy is down - as in losing faith in himself, for example - it's usually the main girl who gets him up & running again. It's in this way that love is usually shown in shonen manga - through actions rather than words as in Orihime's case (I'm not saying Inoue x Ichigo's impossible however...), so...
     
  18. Sinta Member

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    Wow, thanks for the explanation guys I think I might actually have a handle on it now. (sort of, well at least what you guys are trying to say) I still don't really know what the writer is trying to do but I guess I will have to just wait and see. You see, I write in the fantasy realm (I am actually writing a novel right now, although I am a first year law student as well) and i was just really having a tough time with way the relationships play off each other. It's just so different then what I am use. I do watch a couple of other animes but I can't say that I am huge into anime and manga. Are all of relationships like this? Will they ever figure things out? What's with Renji? where does he fit into all this? I started watching anime and manga because of my own story. I was hoping that I might be able to get some ideas/inspiration. Now I'm just confused.
    Thanks to you Marsala your insight was especially helpful.
     
  19. DarkLordOfKichiku Active Member

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    All relationships like this? Nope, but it's not uncommon for this kind of relationships to be present in "fightning shonen manga" like Bleach, Naruto & Ushio and Tora, to name a few examples. As for whenever they'll figure thigns out.. It depends on, actually - in some cases, things as far as relationships goes are resolved, in other,s not at all. It is best to keep in mind tha tin fightnihn shonen manga, relationships are usually not the first and foremost thing the author focuses one - more in focus are friendship and rivality between characters more than anything else...

    Hmm, that's a bit hard to say. At this point he's pretty much Rukia's closest friend (next to Ichigo, perhaps). He might have been more (and can still be, I suppose) had he not made a mistake in the past. Perhaps, should the story take a turn for the Ichigo x Inoue pairing, then he may be the one to end up with Rukia. But we'll see. For now, his relationship with Rukia is strictly friendship, and his relationship with Ichigo a sort of friendship/rivality thing...

    Well, I dunno if fightning shonen manga are the best inspiration source for relationships, unless you're writting something alike a fightning shonen manga - still, I'm not an author myself so I wouldn't know ^_^;;. Still, what we see in manga may be mostly a japanese way of showing relationships, which may be rather different from the western way of telling of relationships, kinda... I think I could put it better than that, but for now I don't have time to come up with a better way of putting it... :(
     
  20. Sinta Member

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    No, You are right I think you expressed what you were trying to say very well. I guess the reason I tried Japanses anime was because i was so tried of the repetitve nature of American Fantasy. I mean, have you read Eragon? That story was pretty much a Lord of the Rings Epic with the plot of star wars. It didn't have an orignal character in the story!!! It was pitiful so when I started writing my own story, I thought i really don't want to be like that. But what do I do? Then one night I saw inuyasha on Adult Swim, and it was all over for me. I was like, whoa what's with this dude with the big ass sword? Who is the chick in the school girl outfit? What the hell is going on?
    Anyway, I am just rambling now so I will make an end I just hope that there is some resolution for these characters or it's going to drive me insane.
     
  21. DarkLordOfKichiku Active Member

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    Haven't read that one - but then, again, the city library hasn't brought in much new stuff and as a student I'm not swimming in money, so... Still, from the way you tell it, perhaps it's just a well that I haven't read it... :doh.
    Still, shonen manga can be like that too. After all, fantasy do mostly follow a number of common themes and suchlike and so do the various kinds of manga.. Of course, that doesn't mean that the authors doesn't create anything of their own, so to speak...

    Yeah, anime/manga had that effect on me when I discovered it too. So many new stuff and themes.. :nuts

    Well, we can always hope :). Bleach is likely to go on for quite some more time, so there's plenty of time for things to come ro a resolution one way or another...

    On a bit off-topic, if you want a good fantasy-manga to read, read Berserk :grin
     
  22. ShuiMei Member

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    Wow, I didn't know so many people actually thought from Orihime's jealousy of Rukia that she could turn "evil," that idea never even crossed my mind because it doesn't seem very fesible in my opinion. Orihime may love Ichigo, but she also values Rukia as a friend, if her love for Ichigo is so intense to the point where her jealousy of his platonic relationship with Rukia would be enough to turn her pure and innocent heart into one of darkness, she's even further down the deep end than I thought, honestly, what does it say about a person when their feelings for someone are so intense that a jealousy rooted from those feelings is enough to change the very foundation of your being? I honestly hope that does not happen to Orihime.

    As for where Kubo's headed in terms of this alleged triangle, if he intends to go down the path of Ichigo with Orihime, he's going to have to start developing some feelings on Ichigo's side because it's been nothing but an intense, all-encompassing affection from Orihime's side. Regardless of whether or not he decides to develop these relations down a certain path, one where Ichigo is romantically involved with Orihime or Rukia, it's apparent that Rukia will always play an important role in Ichigo's life. Rukia's influence and impact isn't going to diminish.
     
  23. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    I don't think that Orihime's jealousy would turn her evil, but rather Aizen, with his vast abilities to corrupt the innocent, would brainwash/transform her into a part-Hollow and bring out her jealousy as something to focus upon, just as Sora fixated on Ichigo.
     
  24. Eurys Sustine et abstine

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    I also don't think she will turn evil to the point of hurting her friends, but the main issues will be her insecurities and her inferiority complex.
    Maybe she'll see herself as worthless again (plus, she did help Aizen by healing Grimmjow), and she'll be too ashamed to come back to Ichigo and co.
    Then, Tatsuki appears and slaps some sense in her :laugh
     
  25. ShuiMei Member

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    Yeah, I think Orihime "turning evil" and then turning on her friends is just lame, it's not real development, it just further pushes her in the role of victim, which I'm really tired of- I want some actual character development from her, like her gaining a backbone and standing up for herself.

    Were Kubo to deal with her issues of insecurity and inferiority in a more positive, productive manner I'd be much happier. She needs to start looking at herself instead of Ichigo as motivation, I might start liking her better then
     
  26. baseballandanime New Member

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    My personal belief is that Kubo will have Orihime surprise everyone, both her friends and Aizen, by giving her some important role in taking down Aizen. That may not appear for a long while until the Winter War, but it's my belief that everyone, including herself, have underestimated Orihime. Her friends have underrated her strength, while Aizen thinks he can manipulate her. I think she will eventually develop along the lines you prefer, and surprise just about everyone, but it may take a while. Her getting over Ichigo may be an important part of her character finally developing along a more productive line.

    As she stands now, though, I agree that I don't really like her character very much. Way too perfect, and sometimes almost cloyingly sweet.
     
  27. ez Jesus Christ

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    there's no way in hell Orihime would turn evil out of jealously...I don't see how that's possible at all. It's not even hinted in the slightest and it would be completely out of character. And of course she loves Ichigo too much to turn into his enemy...she gave up her freedom so that he and his friends could live so why would she turn on them?

    i'm satisfied at Orihime's progression as it is, something will happen between Ichigo and her at the end of this arc; such as her confessing what she actually feels for him or him for her(he will probably have a realization)

    And one last thing, if Orihime somehow did a 180 and turned evil, i'd probably hate this manga - too damn cliche to turn on a best friend and the one she loves
     
  28. BowL <font color="#AA5303">Sand Surfer</font>

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    The love of orihime was very apparent 2 or 3 episodes ago when she tried to kiss ichigo. But still, Ichigo seems way attached to Rukia. And there has been many hints at his love/liking of her.
     
  29. X3x3non on a Forums Break

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    Sadly I think that this debate won't ever be resolved, because there is so little romance in Shonen mangas (and I wonder why).

    How come none of the really old guys in soul society are married? aren't they bored all alone for hundreds of years?
     
  30. DarkLordOfKichiku Active Member

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    Well, Shonen manga is first and foremostly aimed at young guys/boys and so on - and in that age, romance, however well-developed -isn't (supposedly, at least :oh) the first thing that is on the mind, but rather adventure, fightning and action in general, which is exactly what shonen manga is mostly about. Still, that doens't mean that it's the _only thing_ shonen manga may focus on. Look for example at Love hina, which is a shonen manga but isn't focused on fightning and adventure the way for example Bleach, Naruto & One piece is, bur rather more on romance. But int he end, while shonen manga is mostly about fightning, adventure, etc, romance may also be present - but to which degree is up to the author. In some shonen mangas, romance is non-existent or almost non-existent, while in others, it's there, but shown in a rather subtile way, sadly enough...

    Well, Shunsui does make certain advances on Nanao and Byakuya was married and who knows, some of the other captains may have wifes or the liket hat we haven't been shoewn. Still, that may be doubtious, as the Gotei 13 are men and women sworn to combat, to protect and who have most likely spent most of their time to perfect their skills or "remain ever vigilant" on their duty, perhaps too much to have time to look for a wife...

    There could be another reason that the really old guys don't marry: in soul society, you live a long time, long enough, perhaps, to lose several wives or the like through various means - and in the end, they may decide to not matty anymore in order to save themselves the pain that comes with losing a loved one. Or something. also, for a captain, it could be rather hard to find the right partner, given his/her occupation... There can be plenty more reasons too...
     
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